Programming for Traders

[arold_ite]

I was talking with a trader friend this weekend and he suggested that I write a book for traders who want to learn how to program their own back-tests and trading systems, etc.

I’ve been programming (mainly for investment banks) professionally for 20 years and trading part-time for five years. I also co-authored a Microsoft Press book on programming in the late 90’s.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody on this group has any opinions on whether there would be enough demand for such a book?

I’m thinking of aiming the book at the complete programming novice. Somebody that’s never programmed before but wants to gain an understanding of what’s involved before stepping up to the more serious programming resources. Of course, all of the examples and context of the book would be aimed at trading-specific solutions.

What do you think?

Arold

 

[rog1111]

I think that it's a fair idea. If I had more time available I'd do the same myself. What prog language are you thinking about ?

rog1111

I was talking with a trader friend this weekend and he suggested that I write a book for traders who want to learn how to program their own back-tests and trading systems, etc.

I’ve been programming (mainly for investment banks) professionally for 20 years and trading part-time for five years. I also co-authored a Microsoft Press book on programming in the late 90’s.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody on this group has any opinions on whether there would be enough demand for such a book?

I’m thinking of aiming the book at the complete programming novice. Somebody that’s never programmed before but wants to gain an understanding of what’s involved before stepping up to the more serious programming resources. Of course, all of the examples and context of the book would be aimed at trading-specific solutions.

What do you think?

Arold

 

[pcj]

I personally would welcome a book about programming trading systems, and there is definatly
a gap in the market .
Im a novice programmer and began to learn to program to hopefully test my own systems.

If you search through previous threads there are numourous posts on people wanting
learn to program and i think would get positive feedback and support from members of this site.

P.S try searching through the tech support board and trading systems.

regards
pcj

 

[arold_ite]

I P.S try searching through the tech support board and trading systems.pcj

Thanks pcj, I'll do that right now.

Rog1111, I was thinking of C# or VB.net simply because they're easy to learn, extremely accessible in terms of the amount of online help and resources available and above all, they’re FREE!

Arold

 

[rog1111]

I think that would be wise. I think you would agree that VB.net is probably easier, but C# may have broader appeal for those wanting to learn in order to get into Investment banks etc

rog1111

Thanks pcj, I'll do that right now.

Rog1111, I was thinking of C# or VB.net simply because they're easy to learn, extremely accessible in terms of the amount of online help and resources available and above all, they’re FREE!

Arold

 

[LeroyB3]

I'd buy it!

 

[chump]

Leroy ,on behalf of Arold I accept your contract ,please ensure your cheque for £1,000 reaches me we within the next 48 hours

 

[Charlton]

Good luck

I was talking with a trader friend this weekend and he suggested that I write a book for traders who want to learn how to program their own back-tests and trading systems, etc.

I’ve been programming (mainly for investment banks) professionally for 20 years and trading part-time for five years. I also co-authored a Microsoft Press book on programming in the late 90’s.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody on this group has any opinions on whether there would be enough demand for such a book?

I’m thinking of aiming the book at the complete programming novice. Somebody that’s never programmed before but wants to gain an understanding of what’s involved before stepping up to the more serious programming resources. Of course, all of the examples and context of the book would be aimed at trading-specific solutions.

What do you think?

Arold

Arold

I think the idea is good and, if done correctly, you have got a winner.

The main issues are:

• 
  Determining the best languages to use - the determining factor would be those that are easy to learn by beginners, but are applicable to the most commonly available tools. It might also be worthwhile looking at some of the user programming languages of the major charting packages to see if they use similar syntax, which would make the work more appealing
  
  Inclusion of really good trading related examples right from the very first exercise or example
  
  The level to which you take it - clearly it must start simple and get to a level from which the advanced learners can go off and use the standard programming reference books for more advanced programming
  
  It should include a CD or a registration to a website containing the example code - there is nothing worse than having to type in code from a book !
  
  It may also be worth looking at interfaces (APIs) to/from common trading tools such as broker feeds, order placement and charting packages. As a starter I would suggest that you look at some of the message boards on broker sites, MSN etc to see what code and help is being bandied about at present

If you decide to pursue this, good luck - it won't be easy, so if you crack it you deserve the sales

Charlton

 

[Trader333]

Yes this is a good idea, my preferred language would be VB


Paul

 

[chump]

Now I've stopped working as your agent I agree that I would also be interested at a suitable price (always ask the price first Leroy )..VB

 

[rols]

I was talking with a trader friend this weekend and he suggested that I write a book for traders who want to learn how to program their own back-tests and trading systems, etc.

I’ve been programming (mainly for investment banks) professionally for 20 years and trading part-time for five years. I also co-authored a Microsoft Press book on programming in the late 90’s.

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody on this group has any opinions on whether there would be enough demand for such a book?

I’m thinking of aiming the book at the complete programming novice. Somebody that’s never programmed before but wants to gain an understanding of what’s involved before stepping up to the more serious programming resources. Of course, all of the examples and context of the book would be aimed at trading-specific solutions.

What do you think?

Arold

I have had a professional relationship with an experienced VB programmer and know the amount of work necessary to program a trading system. It was rather like peeling an onion in-so-far as once one layer had been coded then another layer appeared and soon ran into hundreds of hours of work. IMO, the mass market - the only way to generate enough sales of the book to make it worthwhile doing - is looking for instant gratification and won't be prepared (or have the knowledge of trading) to put in the work learning code when they are eager to trade. Far better for you to sell your services as a programmer if you have the necessary knowledge to deal with the complexity of programming an automated system. Also if you go through a publisher you'll be lucky to get 10% royalty on retail price.
I have done searches in the past for freelance trading programmers and have had little success in finding any online who could genuinely cut the mustard so there seems to be a space in the market if you have the goods! Maybe set up a website and and get a self promo campaign going? Or why not write your own system and make squillions?!!
Good luck!

 

[rog1111]

I think the commercial viability / pricing of this needs to be looked at closely before launching into what will undoubtedly be a very large time commitment in writing the book. But as has been said previously, it would fill a gap in the market. Also with book sales (assuming it is a good one !), and a high profile, custom programming job requests should be plentiful enough.

Programming areas that seem to be in demand here are :

Backtesting
Autotrading via API
Historical data retrieval via API
Custom made indicators
Custom charting
Custom tickers
Trading simulators

Good luck

rog1111

 

[jlanng]

I've been working on my own backtesting and auto trading platform in C# for the last couple of days as it happens!

I think this book would sell well.

 

[arold_ite]

Thanks for the top-quality feedback guys.

I find myself agreeing with Rols & Rog111. I don’t think that I should expect too much in terms of book sales, but rather, I should maybe use the book as a springboard to promoting my programming services.

To be honest, this is pretty much what happened when I co-wrote the Microsoft Press book in the late 90’s. Although the book was in their top 10 sales list at the time, we never received that much in terms of financial compensation. However, what it did do was to open a lot of doors for me in terms of work and business, etc.

Charlton, you’ve raised some really valid points, especially regarding the inclusion of a CD and also the level to which I take the book. It’s always difficult to knowing which level to aim the book at and trying to appeal to both beginners and more advanced readers.

Rols, you are so right regarding the amount of work that goes into a trading system. I’m sure that most traders just don’t understand the level of complexity involved. Hopefully, a book such as this would help traders to at least understand the work that goes into developing a trading system. Maybe, the book would even put them off of the idea of developing their own systems?

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback, it’s just the kind of thing I was looking for.

Arold

 

[Qwento]

An interesting idea and an interesting discussion, it's certainly an area which has not been covered by the publishing media.

Rols hit the nail on the head. The complexity surrounding a trading system can easily be overlooked by a casual observer.

I would say that if you are learning to trade then forget about learning to program at the same time.

Why are you learning to trade ?

Presumably to turn a profit.

Find a trading style that brings in the profits and then determine whether those profits could be enhanced by a customised trading solution.

At that stage if you decide the customised route is the way to go then ask yourself whether it is more profitable to learn to program or pay someone to code it for you.

As an example, I have spent over 3 years (on and off) and many 100's of hours programming a system for a particular client. He was already a successful trader of UK stocks but found that he was missing many opportunities due to the laborious manner required to locate his trade setups.

He now has a unqiue trading system monitoring a Level1 data feed of over 200 stocks and a Level2 monitoring system that is used to automate some of his trades.The system has paid for itself many times over and yes, 3 years down the line he is still finding new ways to improve it.

There is a plethora of ready made trading aids and back testing systems out there at not unreasonable prices. I would suggest using them to establish your trading style.

If you are not consistently profitable at trading then do not convince yourself that a personally developed customised solution is going to change things. Believe me, it won't !

 

[Trader333]

In my view there is a significant advantage if you are a trader to being able to program but of course it is not easy.


Paul

 

[jlanng]

If you are not consistently profitable at trading then do not convince yourself that a personally developed customised solution is going to change things. Believe me, it won't !

I'm using my stuff to calculate the reliability of sometimes fairly complex signals on different securities. To do it by hand would be just too laborious.

There are other sorts of trading aids too. A very large energy company's trading subsiduary uses a simple tool that I wrote to alert them of changing market conditions before anyone else... (and so far it does!).

As you can see, custom programming isn't necessarily just for 'system' implementation.

 

[rog1111]

I absolutely agree with Paul. I really couldn't contemplate being restricted only to what's available commercially.

rog1111

In my view there is a significant advantage if you are a trader to being able to program but of course it is not easy.


Paul

 

[jonnyy40]

I would read such a book.
http://www.solutionset.co.uk/default.htm
They're vb and vb.net specialists apparently.There's also an online vb.net course available from October 'at' Exeter University (£400).From what I've gathered it takes a lot of work to programme a system.Which leaves Tradestation (but you still have to hunt for workarounds or hire a programmer for the pieces it can't do).Then you've given your system away.

 

[rog1111]

Is the book specifically related to programming for trading, brokers' APIs etc ?

rog1111

I'd read such a book.
http://www.solutionset.co.uk/default.htm
They're vb and vb.net specialists apparently.There's also an online vb.net course available from October 'at' Exeter University (£400).From what I've gathered it takes a lot of work to programme a system.Which leaves Tradestation (but you still have to hunt for workarounds or hire a programmer for the pieces it can't do).Then you've given your system away.