Parents just won't get it

dgtrading

Active member
205 16
Ever since I've come home for good from university, I've had a lot of free time on my hands. I have constantly used this free time to study for and work on my trading skills, especially intra-day trading.

However my parents are really struggling to see where I'm coming from, they just see a lonely guy spending the majority of his days dressed in tracksuit bottoms staring at his computer screen. They think I am not doing anything productive, and should get a real job in the city or at least in a local pub/restaurant or something.

We argue frequently, with me explaining how if I worked in the day it would lead me to miss great trading opportunities. My goal is to join an investment bank/trading firm in the city. But I am not stupid, I know competition is fierce, degrees are worthless and the only way to land a job is to present them with a solid trading record, which will happen earlier if I can devote my time to it.

I will probably get an evening job to generate some cash flow, however the evening can present some astounding trading opportunities, but I guess I am not in a position to be picky as I could really do with a steady income.

I know it's not their fault. Times are very different these days, with global access to retail brokers earning a living from the markets has never been so accessible. It's just very difficult to explain how I am being productive on my computer, and that I am actually doing something.
 

tar

Legendary member
10,443 1,313
Dont destroy yourself , trading from home works as a supplementary income better .
 

sminicooper

Experienced member
1,148 327
Ever since I've come home for good from university, I've had a lot of free time on my hands. I have constantly used this free time to study for and work on my trading skills, especially intra-day trading.

However my parents are really struggling to see where I'm coming from, they just see a lonely guy spending the majority of his days dressed in tracksuit bottoms staring at his computer screen. They think I am not doing anything productive, and should get a real job in the city or at least in a local pub/restaurant or something.

We argue frequently, with me explaining how if I worked in the day it would lead me to miss great trading opportunities. My goal is to join an investment bank/trading firm in the city. But I am not stupid, I know competition is fierce, degrees are worthless and the only way to land a job is to present them with a solid trading record, which will happen earlier if I can devote my time to it.

I will probably get an evening job to generate some cash flow, however the evening can present some astounding trading opportunities, but I guess I am not in a position to be picky as I could really do with a steady income.

I know it's not their fault. Times are very different these days, with global access to retail brokers earning a living from the markets has never been so accessible. It's just very difficult to explain how I am being productive on my computer, and that I am actually doing something.

Nothing new there. It's not even the generation gap. Some people just can't/won't/don't want, to understand. All perfectly normal. Just do what you think is right, you have to make your own life - you'll never be a success in anything if you don't know your own mind, even if sometimes it turns out wrong. Your comments seem pretty sensible to me and as a parent I'd help you all I could. If you eventually become successful they'll no doubt be proud of you and forget their original doubts. Not all recent graduates are as sensible as you appear to be. :)
 

dbphoenix

Legendary member
6,953 1,260
If you have a lot of free time on your hands and you're spending the majority of your days dressed in tracksuit bottoms staring at your computer screen, the source of your arguments may have to do with how much -- or whether -- you're contributing to the functioning of your home. Given that you've come home from university, are you paying rent? Contributing to the food budget? Doing any chores? If not, the lack of understanding should not be unexpected.
 

MajorMagnuM

Legendary member
9,284 888
You could trade 05:30 to 09:00? then goto work? there are lots of opps at this time that could do your daily pip count and leave you free to ease your parents worries ( remember they have been looking out for your happiness since year 0 and want the best for you.)
If they are anything like me, they would be happiest seeing you acting in a functional way - solid timetable, chores as mentioned by dbphoenix, proactive stance.
p.s if i may also say so, well done for asking this question
 

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Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,579
Start your own business for the daytime and trade ( on a demo account until you make consistant profits ) in the evenings.
Good advice about doing helpful jobs around the home.
At worst you may lose money ! That is a real no-no.
 

seekingTruth16

Active member
149 24
Ever since I've come home for good from university, I've had a lot of free time on my hands. I have constantly used this free time to study for and work on my trading skills, especially intra-day trading.

However my parents are really struggling to see where I'm coming from, they just see a lonely guy spending the majority of his days dressed in tracksuit bottoms staring at his computer screen. They think I am not doing anything productive, and should get a real job in the city or at least in a local pub/restaurant or something.

We argue frequently, with me explaining how if I worked in the day it would lead me to miss great trading opportunities. My goal is to join an investment bank/trading firm in the city. But I am not stupid, I know competition is fierce, degrees are worthless and the only way to land a job is to present them with a solid trading record, which will happen earlier if I can devote my time to it.

I will probably get an evening job to generate some cash flow, however the evening can present some astounding trading opportunities, but I guess I am not in a position to be picky as I could really do with a steady income.

I know it's not their fault. Times are very different these days, with global access to retail brokers earning a living from the markets has never been so accessible. It's just very difficult to explain how I am being productive on my computer, and that I am actually doing something.

What are these great and outstanding trading opportunities making you? There are always opportunities, but unless you are making enough from them, it's a moot point. What is your time worth outside trading, £100 per day, more, less? Is sitting in front of the pc making you more than this on average? If not, stop and start earning your true value until you can be confident trading can make you that amount. If it is, then show your parents your account, and pay rent. If they see the tangible benefits, they might even help you.

Maybe your plan needs work. I don't know your account size, but it makes sense to have a decent sized account to trade for a living. Say you need 30k per year to live. Trying to get that from a £5k account is going to be incredibly difficult. Working and saving 100k and then trying to make 30k from that is still hard, but a lot more realistic. Every pound you can save can help your future trading.

As for joining an investment bank, they aren't doing much prop trading anymore, I doubt they will be interested in your track record. They are interested in a top university education, masters degrees, phd's, people who go through the system of interviewing and completing internships etc. Someone who left university and then didn't 'work' for a few years isn't going to be viewed highly. You've also got to think about what if you can't make it work in trading, and some can't. Do you really want a large gap in your CV?

Good luck with whatever you do, but maybe think a little bit more about money, and what if you didn't have your parents to put a roof over your head. Also think about your future earning potential. If you've just left uni, you've got a lot of time, there's no rush.
 

tar

Legendary member
10,443 1,313
As for joining an investment bank, they aren't doing much prop trading anymore, I doubt they will be interested in your track record. They are interested in a top university education, masters degrees, phd's, people who go through the system of interviewing and completing internships etc..

+1 Exactly what i was going to say . Its a myth that if you have a good track record then you will get hired by a bank .
 

dgtrading

Active member
205 16
What are these great and outstanding trading opportunities making you? There are always opportunities, but unless you are making enough from them, it's a moot point. What is your time worth outside trading, £100 per day, more, less? Is sitting in front of the pc making you more than this on average? If not, stop and start earning your true value until you can be confident trading can make you that amount. If it is, then show your parents your account, and pay rent. If they see the tangible benefits, they might even help you.

Maybe your plan needs work. I don't know your account size, but it makes sense to have a decent sized account to trade for a living. Say you need 30k per year to live. Trying to get that from a £5k account is going to be incredibly difficult. Working and saving 100k and then trying to make 30k from that is still hard, but a lot more realistic. Every pound you can save can help your future trading.

As for joining an investment bank, they aren't doing much prop trading anymore, I doubt they will be interested in your track record. They are interested in a top university education, masters degrees, phd's, people who go through the system of interviewing and completing internships etc. Someone who left university and then didn't 'work' for a few years isn't going to be viewed highly. You've also got to think about what if you can't make it work in trading, and some can't. Do you really want a large gap in your CV?

Good luck with whatever you do, but maybe think a little bit more about money, and what if you didn't have your parents to put a roof over your head. Also think about your future earning potential. If you've just left uni, you've got a lot of time, there's no rush.

I'm going to look for a part-time job so I can pay them rent which might alleviate their complaints.

No I am not earning a solid wage from trading at all, but in my mind the money is not the priority at the moment, the priority is to improve my trading, and that will happen much slower if I spend the majority of my time working a normal job.

The most frustrating aspect of my situation however, is that the strategy I have devised picks out only the highest quality of trades, but they do not happen everyday, sometimes not for over a week. This is especially hard to convey to my family, the fact that I could miss out on an 80% 10R trade and a good stamp on my trading record for the sake of a £50 shift I was working....... But the catch is I need to be available when the time comes, even though there is no way of predicting when these trades will come by, so a lot of the time it appears like I am doing nothing. This aspect of trading (where time input is not always correlated with return output) is so difficult to convey because it defies the common mindset of 'work hard play hard'.

In regards to you mentioning 'a large gap in my CV' I strongly disagree that a consistently positive trading record is worthless, everyone has a degree nowadays, and I will prove to capital providers that I can trade in the future.

In regards to a plan B, I don't have one. Accountancy and banking are boring as f*ck, my mate who is also a grad works for a bank and gets bitched about by his boss, yes he is on a good salary but he doesn't love his job like I would if I became a trader. If trading falls through? that possibility hasn't even crossed my mind, because I will never give up I am improving every single day and have felt the pain of financial loss. The best traders in the world didn't have a 'Plan B' to fall back on, they gave it everything they had.
 

dgtrading

Active member
205 16
I know my points make me come off as a spoilt brat, it's just I know trading is exactly what I want to do and I am determined to make it.

I will look for a part-time job to generate cash flow and to contribute rent. But I will desperately avoid full-time work in a regular job as it will only be a relative waste of time in education terms and reaching my consistency goals.
 

seekingTruth16

Active member
149 24
+1 Exactly what i was going to say . Its a myth that if you have a good track record then you will get hired by a bank .

Banking has shrunken a lot, and the prop part even more so. There may be some risk taking in flow desks or even the CVA desk, but it's nothing like retail prop trading.

The hiring for prop traders I see is in hedge funds, mainly quant ones now. But they might require experience trading systematically on a desk, programming skills in several languages, math skills or specialist knowledge. They are unlikely to be interested in a retail trader working from home either.

I guess it's possible at some small prop firms, but that's quite risky, and look what happened at futex. It will be tough for the opening poster, and may get tougher unless he/she gains experience, money and skills. But it's not impossible :)
 

seekingTruth16

Active member
149 24
I'm going to look for a part-time job so I can pay them rent which might alleviate their complaints.

No I am not earning a solid wage from trading at all, but in my mind the money is not the priority at the moment, the priority is to improve my trading, and that will happen much slower if I spend the majority of my time working a normal job.

The most frustrating aspect of my situation however, is that the strategy I have devised picks out only the highest quality of trades, but they do not happen everyday, sometimes not for over a week. This is especially hard to convey to my family, the fact that I could miss out on an 80% 10R trade and a good stamp on my trading record for the sake of a £50 shift I was working....... But the catch is I need to be available when the time comes, even though there is no way of predicting when these trades will come by, so a lot of the time it appears like I am doing nothing. This aspect of trading (where time input is not always correlated with return output) is so difficult to convey because it defies the common mindset of 'work hard play hard'.

In regards to you mentioning 'a large gap in my CV' I strongly disagree that a consistently positive trading record is worthless, everyone has a degree nowadays, and I will prove to capital providers that I can trade in the future.

In regards to a plan B, I don't have one. Accountancy and banking are boring as f*ck, my mate who is also a grad works for a bank and gets bitched about by his boss, yes he is on a good salary but he doesn't love his job like I would if I became a trader. If trading falls through? that possibility hasn't even crossed my mind, because I will never give up I am improving every single day and have felt the pain of financial loss. The best traders in the world didn't have a 'Plan B' to fall back on, they gave it everything they had.

You have to do what you have to do, and I wish you good luck with it.

I still think you should think about the importance of having a larger account to work with. Trader A who makes 200% on a 10k account is barely getting by on 20k per year and under a lot of pressure, yet trader B who makes 40% on 200k is comfortable on 80k per year. Trader A is 5 times better. So you can talk about how you're improving every day, and how you will make it. Great, but don't ignore the obvious practical side. You need money. Are you going to get that faster in a part-time job? And don't expect that people will just hand over their money to be managed by you.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
8,419 1,343
+1 Exactly what i was going to say . Its a myth that if you have a good track record then you will get hired by a bank .


Vice versa also - coming out of a bank won't mean you're going to be a world-beater as a private trader.


dgtrading -
I assume you're not making any real money from these intra-day opportunities you mention, or else why post this thread? So do consider that day-trading is the hardest trading, it is a dive in at the deep end.

But that's not all you can do: you have the chance to -
1) take on a part-time job, plus
2) do some tiny intra-day trades as self-teaching and practice, plus
3) study and practice trading as an art the rest of your daytime hours, plus
4) put in longer term trades to make some supplementary income.

Everything you need is already within your hands.
 

dgtrading

Active member
205 16
Vice versa also - coming out of a bank won't mean you're going to be a world-beater as a private trader.


dgtrading -
I assume you're not making any real money from these intra-day opportunities you mention, or else why post this thread? So do consider that day-trading is the hardest trading, it is a dive in at the deep end.

But that's not all you can do: you have the chance to -
1) take on a part-time job, plus
2) do some tiny intra-day trades as self-teaching and practice, plus
3) study and practice trading as an art the rest of your daytime hours, plus
4) put in longer term trades to make some supplementary income.

Everything you need is already within your hands.

that's the plan. cheers
 
 
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