No Political Parties ?

NVP

Legendary member
36,647 1,861
someone raised an interesting point recently to me ....why have parties at all ?

People vote for the MPs who deliver the most for their own constituency
MPs vote in parliament for what they believe in
Prime minister is voted in by either the GP or parliament consensus
Cabinet ministers voted in by their peers in parliament or again by the general public

all done by voting , e-votes , using the technology that is available to anyone

imagine that .....no parties ?

N
 

trendie

Legendary member
6,174 989
Without parties, we have the mess we have now. Caused by single-issue politics.

Parties should be a comprehensive portfolio of concerns, ranging from health, defence, education, economy, etc.
If people are asked a binary question, it becomes the be-all and end-all. And divisive it is, too.
People get put into the "with us" or "against us" box. To the exclusion of all other issues.

It would be like asking people to vote "FOR liver transplants" or "AGAINST liver transplants". Effectively asked to decide one thing against the need for a balanced health service including various screening initiatives, A&E, and a myriad of other health needs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tomorton

Pat494

Legendary member
13,691 1,368
Great idea in theory but do the general masses ever vote sensibly ?
A referendum took Britain into the EU but now the majority want out.
Can we really afford to imitate the yo yo being in and then out ?
The SNP and other remoaners want to keep having referendums until they get the decision they want.
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,527 745
A referendum took Britain into the EU but now the majority want out.
Neenaww nee naw, the Brexit Police have noted an incorrect statement being made on social media. Ear, wot is your motivation, is it nefarious or just a slip of the keyboard, how do you plead?
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,691 1,368
Neenaww nee naw, the Brexit Police have noted an incorrect statement being made on social media. Ear, wot is your motivation, is it nefarious or just a slip of the keyboard, how do you plead?
Have I got my facts wrong ?
I do recall the case for membership was misrepresented all those years ago. I actually voted then.
It was portrayed then as a harmless trade deal that has by now somehow got political. The sprouts in Brussels are now throwing their weight about under the control of Berlin.
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,527 745
Have I got my facts wrong ?
I do recall the case for membership was misrepresented all those years ago. I actually voted then.
It was portrayed then as a harmless trade deal that has by now somehow got political. The sprouts in Brussels are now throwing their weight about under the control of Berlin.
From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_European_Union–United_Kingdom_relations

The Treaty of Accession was signed in January 1972 by the then prime minister Edward Heath, leader of the Conservative Party. Parliament's European Communities Act 1972 was enacted on 17 October, and the UK's instrument of ratification was deposited the next day (18 October), letting the United Kingdom's membership of the EC come into effect on 1 January 1973.

In 1975, the United Kingdom held its first ever national referendum on whether the UK should remain in the European Communities.


So the first referendum was held 3 years following the Act that took us into the EU, not the other way around. Then we had:

As a result of the Maastricht Treaty, the European Communities became the European Union on 1 November 1993. The new name reflected the evolution of the organisation from an economic union into a political union. As a result of the Lisbon Treaty, which entered into force on 1 December 2009, the Maastricht Treaty is now known, in updated form as, the Treaty on European Union (2007) or TEU, and the Treaty of Rome is now known, in updated form, as the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (2007) or TFEU.

Then history repeated itself when, 23 years later the public got to vote on remaining again in 2016. ;)
 

trendie

Legendary member
6,174 989
From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_European_Union–United_Kingdom_relations

The Treaty of Accession was signed in January 1972 by the then prime minister Edward Heath, leader of the Conservative Party. Parliament's European Communities Act 1972 was enacted on 17 October, and the UK's instrument of ratification was deposited the next day (18 October), letting the United Kingdom's membership of the EC come into effect on 1 January 1973.

In 1975, the United Kingdom held its first ever national referendum on whether the UK should remain in the European Communities.


So the first referendum was held 3 years following the Act that took us into the EU, not the other way around. Then we had:

As a result of the Maastricht Treaty, the European Communities became the European Union on 1 November 1993. The new name reflected the evolution of the organisation from an economic union into a political union. As a result of the Lisbon Treaty, which entered into force on 1 December 2009, the Maastricht Treaty is now known, in updated form as, the Treaty on European Union (2007) or TEU, and the Treaty of Rome is now known, in updated form, as the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (2007) or TFEU.

Then history repeated itself when, 23 years later the public got to vote on remaining again in 2016. ;)
I vaguely remember the original entry into EU, but dont recall the referendum. (I was 10)
Completely forgot about the Maastricht Treaty!!

Maybe, what the govt should have done is take the UK out of the EU first, then hold a referendum if we should stay out, and rely on peoples apathy to accept whats already been done. (as per the original entry)
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,691 1,368
Let's not make the possibility of goose stepping troops marching down The Mall any nearer to reality.
Adolf is no doubt delighted how things have turned out. The subtle changes over the years have largely gone unnoticed by the masses. Winston must be muttering dark possibilities and trying to ring the alarm bells, as the UK's politicians run around in circles. The Germans are scheming and won't settle for anything less than European domination.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Signalcalc

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,527 745
Thatcher warned Major back in the day.


So, Major is doubling down on his catastrophic stance.
He was wrong then and he's still wrong now.
John Major reminds me of spitting image every time, I just hear that voice and cringe 😂 😂

Every ex-PM that has come out of the woodwork in the last 3 years is a europhile, they convince no-one but remoaners, noses in the trough all of them, there's hardly an achievement between them that the UK can be proud of, quite the opposite in fact, destructive all of them.

Shows how blind we have been to the establishment, they did really well in keeping it under wraps for so long, (maybe that is their crowning glory), not any longer though.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,691 1,368
Modern tech with online voting could run the country. But does the average Joe know enough to make the right decisions ? Probably not.
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,527 745
Modern tech with online voting could run the country. But does the average Joe know enough to make the right decisions ? Probably not.
Probably better to have non-partisan, non-political consensus groups made up of SMEs and laymen, that are voted for by the general public to make further votes on our behalf, complex subjects would need more effort and consultation with a wider SME audience, but ultimately they would be more representative of the thoughts of the public and less politically motivated by power, greed and corruption.

Problem you really need to deal with first, is the deep state, they are the one's pulling all the strings all the time, regardless of who is in power, they also run the media, extremely large and difficult problems to sort out there, but you gotta start somewhere.
 

timsk

Legendary member
7,023 1,847
. . .Then history repeated itself when, 23 years later the public got to vote on remaining again in 2016. ;)
Thanks for thye links Sig'.

I clicked on the Treaty of Lisbon and the standout paragraph was this one with my emphasis in red:

". . . The stated aim of the treaty was to "complete the process started by the Treaty of Amsterdam [1997] and by the Treaty of Nice [2001] with a view to enhancing the efficiency and democratic legitimacy of the Union and to improving the coherence of its action". Opponents of the Treaty of Lisbon, such as former Danish Member of the European Parliament (MEP) Jens-Peter Bonde, argued that it would centralise the EU, and weaken democracy by "moving power away" from national electorates. Supporters argue that it brings more checks and balances into the EU system, with stronger powers for the European Parliament and a new role for national parliaments. . ."

As an aside, it's worth revisiting this interview with David Starkey . . .

 

NVP

Legendary member
36,647 1,861
Probably better to have non-partisan, non-political consensus groups made up of SMEs and laymen, that are voted for by the general public to make further votes on our behalf, complex subjects would need more effort and consultation with a wider SME audience, but ultimately they would be more representative of the thoughts of the public and less politically motivated by power, greed and corruption.

Problem you really need to deal with first, is the deep state, they are the one's pulling all the strings all the time, regardless of who is in power, they also run the media, extremely large and difficult problems to sort out there, but you gotta start somewhere.
still an interesting theory S.......a little like the equivalent of work councils that are strong in Germany ....(poor choice)
 

Similar threads


AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

But it's thanks to our sponsors that access to Trade2Win remains free for all. By viewing our ads you help us pay our bills, so please support the site and disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock