New to trading? WTF?

LiamH

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OK, so I'm still new to trading in the grand scheme of things. I've read threads by TD, Captain Currency, Mr. Charts, J16 and literally hundreds more. I've been around for a few years soaking up (mostly useless) information, I certainly haven't put in the work others could due to other commitments so I guess there are other people around who have only been learning a year or so and are about where I am..

It seems that the more I learn the less I know!

I have my idea's, I believe I'm making my own progress but until I finally go live I don't know.

The thing I'm trying to get across here is... This trading malarky is virtually impossible to do well right from the off. You might read something and at first you'll more than likely take it as gospel, head off and throw some cash at IG, Finspreads or whatever and get on your way to the millions you promised the missus would come within a couple of weeks. Of course, you lose this money quite quickly.

You realise the thread\article\book\paid for system or whatever you started with is a load of cack and so you move to another thread\article\book\paid for system or whatever - This is it, this is your ticket, your moment.

Don't be stupid... That was a load of **** as well.

Rinse\repeat the above until you finally realise you're still none the wiser.

Eventually (this is kind of where I am now) you get to the point where you don't really like the idea of simply copying someone elses style... you've grown pessimistic and start pouring over charts hoping to spot something that will give you an edge.

Maybe you\I will find it, maybe not but I can sure as hell say that nobody is going to hand it to you\me.

As you read these forums you grow to respect certain opinions... Now I'll admit that at first, it's the wrong people you listen to - These are the people who tell you what you want to hear.

The sooner you realise that most of these people are talking absolute cod **** the better.

Some points I have learned that I want to try and get across... They've all been said before and you probably nodded your head in agreement and then went straight on to ignore it all!

1) That thread you just read, the one with the foolproof strategy - It's a load of b0llocks.

2) The person with 2,000,000 posts and legendary status, you know, the one with the opinions, he's clearly been around... A master trader! He works in your local Asda and is a complete pillock - Steer clear.

3) This one is confusing... You know that strategy that's a load of b0llocks... Erm, well, if you understand it's concepts fully it will make you rich. Good luck, not many people get rich trading other peoples strategies. This is not a fault with the strategy, the fault almost always lies in the execution of the strategy.

This place, and every other trading site I have looked at is a complete minefield of useless cr@p and misleading idiots.

Search deep enough though and all of the answers are there... They're just cleverly disguised.

With all this in mind here's a couple of things you don't want to hear but are very true - Nobody will make you profitable. If you can't do it on your own you will never do it, concentrate your time somewhere else. Take a step back after reading threads\posts on the interweb - Think about what these people are saying. I've found recently that the ones who say things I don't want to hear are generally the ones speaking the truth.

Just my 2 cents based on a couple of realisations. Hopefully this helps at least one newbie... If not well meh, at least I tried.
 
Socrates came to that conclusion some time ago - 'The more you know the more you know you don't know.
 
Liam, I'm in exactly the same boat mate. Don't worry - We'll get there...
 
Hi Liam you've read a hell of a lot there.
Have you been demoing too?
 
Hi Liam you've read a hell of a lot there.
Have you been demoing too?

It's fair to say that I've spent more time reading than I have trading but that's more because I can read at work! I've traded a live account a couple of times a while back and very quickly lost the money... Have only watched the market since, trying to find something that works for me.

Thought I'd cracked it 6 months ago and then really looked at my strategy - Quickly realised that I had cracked nothing.

Still trying to work it out. As I said, other commitments slow me down somewhat but I'll get there. The post was really to warn newbs not to do the same things I have... Trusting and believing what others say too easily.
 
Screen time counts for a lot, I know demo doesn't give you the training on the psychological horrors involved with real money, but it helps getting to know the markets in other ways.
If its any help I'd suggest getting a MT4/FXPRO demo, if you can't look in the day for short term trading try setting up daily trades to see how they do.
If you are limited for screen time you can always take a pair, on any timeframe, scroll back a few months, and use the F12 button to move forward bar by bar to get a feel for the markets....see how many times your edge comes up, and what happens each time.

All the best
 
Liam, I'm in exactly the same boat mate. Don't worry - We'll get there...

Hopefully!

Honestly, I am aiming to make a career of trading but can't believe how long it's taken for certain things to sink in. Mostly regarding probabilities and potential gains. Newbs are lead so far up the garden path it's difficult to find their way back - I think this is what contributes massively to the old 95% malarky.
 
Screen time counts for a lot, I know demo doesn't give you the training on the psychological horrors involved with real money, but it helps getting to know the markets in other ways.
If its any help I'd suggest getting a MT4/FXPRO demo, if you can't look in the day for short term trading try setting up daily trades to see how they do.
If you are limited for screen time you can always take a pair, on any timeframe, scroll back a few months, and use the F12 button to move forward bar by bar to get a feel for the markets....see how many times your edge comes up, and what happens each time.

All the best

Thanks for the advice glyder :) Looking back through charts is what I spend most of my free time doing now so I definitely agree. I can't demo - Some may take it as a cop out but without real money being on the line I don't trade properly so I don't bother.

Once I've found something that I believe in I will go live and whatever will be will be! My criteria for something I believe in are quite strict so I won't be going live half cocked this time.

I haven't posted this thread for me though, I'll get there one day.. It's more for the newbs whom I hope can dodge at least a few bullets after reading this!
 
When I first started I listened only to 3 particular people I know, and nobody else. 2 of them are self-made millionaires from trading, the third is well on his way. By doing what they teach me I have been consistently successful from my second month.

Too many cooks spoil the pot, as they say. Everyone has an opnion, but very few actually have success. Great points LiamH - nobody will make you profitable. Just rely on your own learning, experience and observation, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Same here, I want to make a career of it too. I'm sure I'll get there one day. I'm pretty determined to persist until I do. I've been at it for about 2 years too. When I first started I planned to leave my job and start trading full time pretty quickly. I soon realised it wasn't going to be that easy! I've live traded on 2 occasions now. Came out around break even both times. Was gutted at the time but in hindsight it seems I did ok compared to most! I can trade on the chart game and make money consistently pretty easily, just trading by instinct and a MA. Would never trust this using real money though. I'd want a system with strict rules. Playing with ideas at the moment until something fits. Pretty much spend most of my days looking at charts and reading on here. Marking down my analysis on the charts and watching how things play out. Been tempted to look for a mentor but don't want to get ripped off. Can't afford that! Chin up mate!

Sam.
 
This mirrors my experience word for word. Must be a stage you reach when you realise everyone talks bull**** and if there is anybody who actually knows what they are doing they aren't saying anything. What's the next stage.

Have you also promised yourself you will never buy another trading book?
 
Actually that's probably a bit harsh, probably loads of good info on this forum and elsewhere, problem is when you trade EOD the process of trust but verify becomes very tedious after a while.
 
Actually that's probably a bit harsh, probably loads of good info on this forum and elsewhere, problem is when you trade EOD the process of trust but verify becomes very tedious after a while.


Nah, it's not harsh. There is plenty of really, truly excellent stuff on this forum it's just that you have to wade through a serious amount of rubbish to find it.

And no, I won't buy any more books. Not that I bought many in the first place!
 
Liam, whilst I realise you probably have a low opinion of my views due to our earlier exchanges, what I would say is that the psychology of trading is far more important than you might imagine. In fact, it's far more important than the strategy. A simple 10 day/100 day MA crossover system will make money over time in a variety of markets, but actually following it is another matter.

Anyhow, I'll bring up the "38 steps to becoming a trader" which I found on the interweb, have a read --

1. We accumulate information - buying books, going to seminars and researching.
2. We begin to trade with our 'new' knowledge.
3. We consistently 'donate' and then realize we may need more knowledge or information.
4. We accumulate more information.
5. We switch the commodities we are currently following.
6. We go back into the market and trade with our 'updated' knowledge.
7. We get 'beat up' again and begin to lose some of our confidence.

Fear starts setting in.

8. We start to listen to 'outside news' and to other traders.
9. We go back into the market and continue to 'donate'.
10. We switch commodities again.
11. We search for more information.
12. We go back into the market and start to see a little progress.
13. We get 'over-confident' and the market humbles us.
14. We start to understand that trading successfully is going to take more time and more knowledge than we anticipated.

Most people will give up at this point, as they realize work is involved.

15. We get serious and start concentrating on learning a 'real' methodology.
16. We trade our methodology with some success, but realize that something is missing.
17. We begin to understand the need for having rules to apply our methodology.
18. We take a sabbatical from trading to develop and research our trading rules.
19. We start trading again, this time with rules and find some success, but over all we still hesitate when it comes time to execute.
20. We add, subtract and modify rules as we see a need to be more proficient with our rules.
21. We feel we are very close to crossing that threshold of successful trading.
22. We start to take responsibility for our trading results as we understand that our success is in us, not the methodology.
23. We continue to trade and become more proficient with our methodology and our rules.
24. As we trade we still have a tendency to violate our rules and our results are still erratic.
25. We know we are close.
26. We go back and research our rules.
27. We build the confidence in our rules and go back into the market and trade.
28. Our trading results are getting better, but we are still hesitating in executing our rules.
29. We now see the importance of following our rules as we see the results of our trades when we don't follow the rules.
30. We begin to see that our lack of success is within us (a lack of discipline in following the rules because of some kind of fear), and we begin to work on knowing ourselves better.
31. We continue to trade and the market teaches us more and more about ourselves.
32. We master our methodology and our trading rules.
33. We begin to consistently make money.
34. We get a little over-confident and the market humbles us.
35. We continue to learn our lessons.
36. We stop thinking and allow our rules to trade for us (trading becomes boring, but successful) and our trading account continues to grow as we increase our contract size.
37. We are making more money than we ever dreamed possible.
38. We go on with our lives and accomplish many of the goals we had always dreamed of.
 
And if 38 steps are to many here its condensed to 5
 

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Liam,so much of what you say is true,but I dont know where to begin to answer it.
But I dont work at ASDAs,well not yet.
 
From Glyder's Word doc..

Step 3 - The Eureka Moment

Towards the end of stage two you begin to realize that it’s not the system that is making the difference. You realize that its actually possible to make money with a simple moving average and nothing else IF you can get your head and money management right


Almost exactly what I said in my previous post, spooky..
 
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