Netpicks UTM

[dwaddell]

Hi,

The system documentation and training videos both advocate an emergency stop level and have a built in exit strategy based on one of the indicators, at most I've never risked more than 30 pips and the average loss experienced is around the 15-20 pip mark.

I believe that any 'system' is only as good as the person trading it and the money management rules you apply to it. I use UTM to give me direction (as I do with my own methodology) and from there I manage the trade within my own comfort zone of risk and profit expectation.

I agree, the UTM system, as with most, isnt rocket science, and they did charge a fairly hefty fee (although not as much as some), but it works for me and suits my style well.

At the end of the day its horses for courses, I've paid for many systems over the past 3 years and most have turned out to be nothing but tripe, UTM has proven to be a workable methodology for me...then again, maybe if I'd applied the same mindset that I have now to systems trading in the past, they may have been successful also.

My point...I suppose is that it comes down to the individual as to whether they are going to be successful or not, regardless of the 'system', and the application of a money management strategy that you are comfortable with.

This is simply what works for me and is no recommendation or pitch for the UTM strategy.

Dave.

 

[stevespray]

I havent bought the system but, going by the different kinds of results that seem to be being reported, it appears that UTM is not a 'system' in the true sense of the word - I'm I correct on that? It appears to be more of a methodology? I know that to some this my seem like semantics on my part but as a fairly serious and experienced trader I see what certain people are looking for when they purchase a 'system'.

When I see the word 'system' I tend to think 'black box' meaning hard and fast rules which must be applied at all times. Take for example the Turtles System. The Turtles System was completely successful for those people who, to the letter, followed the exact rules. Some people however lost money. When the trading of those people was analysed it showed that some people could not simply follow a set of rules provided to them. It was determined that their failure to make money was down to them not following the system intructions rather than the system being at fault.

In my experience most people are drawn towards systems for psycological reasons - they want some thing which they think will take a large chunk of the emotion out of trading. This doesnt seem unreasonable when you think about it. It is therefore quite interesting that peoples experiences seem to differ so wildly. It would be interesting to know if any of the folk that have lost money have reviewed their trading and tested this to see if all the system rules have been followed? Common sense shows us that the only way to learn from ones mistakes is to investigate what has gone wrong. Quite often human nature will want to make us blame something other than oursleves (in this case a dodgy system prehaps) however, in blaming the system we are presenting oursleves with an excuse not to have to review our trading mistakes. If we allow this to happen we are allowing a fantastic opportunity to learn from the markets to pass us by.

dwaddell - Any chance you might like to outline the basis of the UTM without giving away its secrets?

Steve.

 

[dwaddell]

Hi Steve,

I agree completely with your previous post - I too see a difference between a 'system' and a 'methodology' or 'approach'.

UTM out the box came in my view as a 'system'. There were particular timeframes and indicator settings along with a set of rules for entering a trade and exiting a trade - all very mechanical, simple and straightforward.

Over the past few months the 'system' has transformed into a 'methodology', in that there are still timeframes (originally just 10/3/2 and subsequently changed to 15/5) there are still entry rules but on the whole the trade management and exit has changed from a transcribed 'exit when this happens' to a slightly more discretionary approach based on your own apetite for risk. That doesnt detract from the fact you can still trade it if you want to based on the original 'system' rules.

However, the changes have been positive and certainly suit my style of trading more, in that I can determine the risk I'm willing to accept and the profit I want to take, rather than relying on the output from a black box.

And yes, its my mindest and approach that makes me successful, not the 'system' I follow.

Dave

I havent bought the system but, going by the different kinds of results that seem to be being reported, it appears that UTM is not a 'system' in the true sense of the word - I'm I correct on that? It appears to be more of a methodology? I know that to some this my seem like semantics on my part but as a fairly serious and experienced trader I see what certain people are looking for when they purchase a 'system'.

When I see the word 'system' I tend to think 'black box' meaning hard and fast rules which must be applied at all times. Take for example the Turtles System. The Turtles System was completely successful for those people who, to the letter, followed the exact rules. Some people however lost money. When the trading of those people was analysed it showed that some people could not simply follow a set of rules provided to them. It was determined that their failure to make money was down to them not following the system intructions rather than the system being at fault.

In my experience most people are drawn towards systems for psycological reasons - they want some thing which they think will take a large chunk of the emotion out of trading. This doesnt seem unreasonable when you think about it. It is therefore quite interesting that peoples experiences seem to differ so wildly. It would be interesting to know if any of the folk that have lost money have reviewed their trading and tested this to see if all the system rules have been followed? Common sense shows us that the only way to learn from ones mistakes is to investigate what has gone wrong. Quite often human nature will want to make us blame something other than oursleves (in this case a dodgy system prehaps) however, in blaming the system we are presenting oursleves with an excuse not to have to review our trading mistakes. If we allow this to happen we are allowing a fantastic opportunity to learn from the markets to pass us by.

dwaddell - Any chance you might like to outline the basis of the UTM without giving away its secrets?

Steve.

 

[Joey]

Positively Your Last Chance

I havent bought the system but, going by the different kinds of results that seem to be being reported, it appears that UTM is not a 'system' in the true sense of the word - I'm I correct on that? It appears to be more of a methodology? I know that to some this my seem like semantics on my part but as a fairly serious and experienced trader I see what certain people are looking for when they purchase a 'system'.

.
Steve.

JUST RECEIVED THIS EMAIL VIA ANOTHER VENDOR.
All of us at NetPicks want to thank all of the serious traders we've
been
in contact with for their overwhelming response to the Ultimate Trading
Machine. We are very happy with the way things have gone, and we are
looking forward to getting to know all of our new owners.

The UTM is being pulled off the market today, at 2:00pm EST (New York
time), (or earlier) as we have just 9 copies left as of the writing of
this
email. This is it.

The sell-out comes only two days after we released it, and yet again it
sold out quicker than we had anticipated it would.

Today is your very last chance to get your copy, before the price goes
up
several hundred dollars in our next release, sometime next year.

http://www.netpicks.com/trmach

Thanks again to all of you who have become owners. The boxes have
already
left the warehouse in large numbers and are on their way to you. We're
looking forward to another great week of trading with the Ultimate
Trading
Machine, and this time all of our new owners will be on board with us!

Good Trading To All,

Anthony Trister (Trickstor)

 

[stevespray]

JUST RECEIVED THIS EMAIL VIA ANOTHER VENDOR.
All of us at NetPicks want to thank all of the serious traders we've
been
in contact with for their overwhelming response to the Ultimate Trading
Machine. We are very happy with the way things have gone, and we are
looking forward to getting to know all of our new owners.

The UTM is being pulled off the market today, at 2:00pm EST (New York
time), (or earlier) as we have just 9 copies left as of the writing of
this
email. This is it.

The sell-out comes only two days after we released it, and yet again it
sold out quicker than we had anticipated it would.

Today is your very last chance to get your copy, before the price goes
up
several hundred dollars in our next release, sometime next year.

http://www.netpicks.com/trmach

Thanks again to all of you who have become owners. The boxes have
already
left the warehouse in large numbers and are on their way to you. We're
looking forward to another great week of trading with the Ultimate
Trading
Machine, and this time all of our new owners will be on board with us!

Good Trading To All,

Anthony Trister (Trickstor)

It's just direct sales marketing waffle designed to make people feel that they are missing out in some way. You see, that is the key to direct sales marketing, it's purely a series of attempts to appeal to human nature. After that it is down to statistics and percentages. Once you have X number of people looking at your website, if it is written and presented nicely, you should convert Y percent to sales and Z percent will go on to keep the product and pay for it in full without exercising their money back g/tee option.

I doubt very much if they have shifted 500 copies but who knows. The whole "selling like hot cakes" method of advertising is hardly a new concept afterall. Consider how it would sound if they wrote you an email saying, "We've hardly sold any copies and we expect the site to remain open much longer than we initially anticipated"! On top of that, if you were running a direct sales marketing operation and you had a product which was selling as well as they claimed, why would you remove that product if you were making the best part of $500,000 every few days? The answer is that you wouldnt - that would be the reverse of everything that the direct sales guru's advise in their books on the subject. If you have a product that sells that well then you'd quickly approach you fullfillment house and ensure that they quickly press more copies.

Have a good weekend,
Steve.

 

[Daza]

Don’t waste your money, every thing in this course/system can be found in any technical analysis book that shows how to trade with multiple time frames and stochastic.

I have been trading for 7 years and the method I use at present is not only simple but works for me, but when I got an email about the UTM method I was intrigued and decided to purchase it.

Well let me say, what a waste of £400. I should have known better but there you go, maybe i have learnt my lesson not to keep looking for the holygrail when I now that it I do not need it.

You will be better of buying books such as ‘Marcel links’ high probability trading or trading with the odds by Cynthia case, or just go to any of the following sites and learn for free.

http://www.dacharts.org/archives.php
http://www.trading-naked.com/default1.htm
http://efuturevision.com/ehomej.php3
http://www.ensignsoftware.com/tips/newsletter.htm
http://www.trading-naked.com/Articles_and_Reprints.htm
http://monkeys.dacharts.com/
http://www.trading-naked.com/Buffy_Price_Action.htm


Triple Screen Trading System from Trading For A Living-- Dr. Alexander Elder

Use you money on actually trading , starting of small and building up, finding your own style and pace.

Any way just my thoughts on the UTM.

Daza