Name something "Permanent"

Yes....but why? Why is that? Surely there must be an answer for that.....? There must be an answer for everything? surely.

Why must there be an answer for everything? Your subject matter permanence only exists if you create the concept of time. You can't have it both ways. If time is removed as an arbitrary creation of man, one removes concept of change hence permanence is irrelevant.

Everything you are trying analyse and give meaning / definition to is subjective to you.


Maybe we don't need to measure change! I think its more to do with the reasons behind it rather than measure or compare.

If you don't have change you have static. A photograph. A snap shot. Reasons cease to exist.

Now since we are on the issue of time, if we remove this so called time, things will operate normally without it. If you say so... :sleep:

So whatever that is operating does not depend on time. You are taking the **** now... :sleep: Explain what is operating; how, where, when, why without depending on time. Example please? :sleep:

Things will happen because it will happen Oh yeah! Pull the other one it has bells on it. :LOL:
but more importantly.....why? and where does it come from? What caused it? (everything has a cause.....right) Surely there is an answer for that too? Are you telling or asking? :sleep:

We've now moved into thingymijigs have we :LOL:

There can't be anything that is un-caused, can it?


"Things will happen because it will happen". I like that :)
 
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Two different times exist, planck and light speed. Planck generally refers to non-orderly or quantum.
 
Atilla said:
Why must there be an answer for everything?
What kind of answer is that? Is there nothing to "know"?.....So according to you, there is no answer / no need for an answer for why nothing is permanent!?.....aren't you even curious?

Atilla said:
Your subject matter permanence only exists if you create the concept of time. You can't have it both ways. If time is removed as an arbitrary creation of man, one removes concept of change hence permanence is irrelevant.
Permanence does not depend on the concept of time, time has nothing to do with it, permanence should be able to exist either with time or without.....as time isn't real.
That is why time is not required so it can be removed. Time is basically measuring itself. Something very subtle here which I think you have not grasped.

Atilla said:
If you don't have change you have static. A photograph. A snap shot. Reasons cease to exist.
There is no need to measure as time is meaningless. This does not mean a static photograph. The point is: say we did not invent time, back in the old days, things which exist will still decay.....without time.

Atilla said:
You are taking the **** now... Explain what is operating; how, where, when, why without depending on time. Example please?
As above.

Atilla said:
We've now moved into thingymijigs have we.
Which is?
 
What kind of answer is that? Is there nothing to "know"?.....So according to you, there is no answer / no need for an answer for why nothing is permanent!?.....aren't you even curious?

At least it's not as misleading as having the wrong answer.
 
What kind of answer is that? Is there nothing to "know"?.....So according to you, there is no answer / no need for an answer for why nothing is permanent!?.....aren't you even curious?

Core blimey... To quote you...

1. There must be an answer for everything? surely.
2. Is there nothing to "know"?

Very zippy this evening aren't you?

Look in all sincerity until your interesting question the thought never crossed my mind as to why nothing is permanent. I'm glad they are not too. Life would be pretty boring if they were. Soooo mundane. Like listening to the Archers... When will it bloody end????


Permanence does not depend on the concept of time, time has nothing to do with it, permanence should be able to exist either with time or without.....as time isn't real. Planet 25689234 hasn't been discovered yet but the number is ready when it will be. Time does definitely exist whether you acknowledge it or not. You can call it what ever you want. You can also divide and slice it up into seconds and nano seconds. Get with the program dude.
That is why time is not required so it can be removed. No it can't. Only in your hypothesis can it be removed if you choose it to! Time is basically measuring itself. Ruler measures distance. Distance doesn't exist either. Ruler only measures it self right? :LOL: Something very subtle here which I think you have not grasped. Tell me about it ;)


There is no need to measure as time is meaningless. If you say so :sleep: This does not mean a static photograph. The point is: say we did not invent time, back in the old days, things which exist will still decay.....without time. Decay requires two points right? Start - end... We talking quantum physics now an element being in two places, in two different states at the same time? Hang-on a minute time doesn't exist so at the same moment?

I need help. How would you phrase that in your world without time?



As above.


Which is?


Paint a picture for me?
Chicken_dances.gif
 
Atilla said:
Look in all sincerity until your interesting question the thought never crossed my mind as to why nothing is permanent. I'm glad they are not too. Life would be pretty boring if they were. Soooo mundane. Like listening to the Archers... When will it bloody end????
Well, we all know, we can't last forever and its not the point am making here trying to live this life permanently forever, it isn't going to happen.
Anyway, my question still stands regarding why nothing is permanent. Maybe if one wishes to see what is permanent must first answer why nothing is permanent.
Atilla said:
Decay requires two points right? Start - end... We talking quantum physics now an element being in two places, in two different states at the same time? Hang-on a minute time doesn't exist so at the same moment? I need help. How would you phrase that in your world without time?
No, that point is about impermanence and not about quantum physics. Time is not required.....which leads to another question I raised earlier.
 
Black Holes - Event Horizon: Combining the two, quantum v relative? Who is next in line for the, Nobel Prize?
 
I have realized that everything in life is only temporary.....so am looking for something which is permanent. Surely its a good thing?
If one cannot find it, surely that cannot be taken as prove it doesn't exist.


Surely if people's views change then morality must also change as views depends on it. Yet views are different per individuals so what happens when they meet, they will have different views, hence no meeting of minds. So does that not mean views are subjective and can change?
If views do change then it isn't permanent so this should also apply to morality.....does it not?


Well, that depends on the definition of what "respect" is. Is the modern day society as ideal example right now?


If truth is permanent, surely it must be found first rather than believing in others that there is truth. A believe isn't a fact.....so I guess we need to know what it is. do we not?
So are you suggesting that you have "found" the truth? and it is permanent? then I will be very interested and my ears are open.

Interesting.....the invisible ones.

Is looking for something permanent a good thing? I don't have the answer to that, as it would depend on what your true motivation is and how you would react to something permanent, if you actually found it.

Regarding morality, it does not change just because people's views change. I am talking about true morality, not someones "view" of it. Most do not have this truth, or do not have it in its entirety, and therefore do not have anything permanent. Because they change their views every time it seems convenient or comfortable to do so.

The definition of respect. Well, I think it is pretty clear what respect means, you can look it up in the dictionary. Obviously, if you pick any definition of respect, it's clear that a mass murderer of innocent people would not be showing respect for human life. Whole nations of people have violated this principle. It doesn't change the principle, just because a whole bunch of people decide to commit genocide simply because they think their race is superior. No, their view doesn't change this permeant principle of morality.

Most people do not want the truth, and refuse to believe it even if they are enlightened. If knowing the truth would mean you would have to change your entire life, and your view of the world you live in, and it would be very uncomfortable and challenging, and you'd face ridicule from your peers, would you still accept it? Believe it? Embrace it?

I don't think it would be productive for me to point out to you, the truth that I know that is permanent. It would not be comfortable for you since it would go against everything you currently believe.

If you have 100 people in a room and you ask each person a question, and you get 100 different answers that all conflict, it is obvious that they cannot all be right. Not everyone in that room has something permeant, in fact, only 1 of them could possibly have it. So, you have 3 choices.

1) come up with your own answer
2) pick one of the 100 and go with that
3) do the work necessary to find out who has the truth

So, to find something permanent, you need to find the truth. You need to search for it. You need to prove it to yourself. You need to be able to defend it from ridicule and you need to embrace it with every essence of your strength. Otherwise you will lose it, even if you do find it, and you are back to being temporary.

Are you willing to put in the work, and deal with the pain that comes with it? Is it worth it to you? Only you can determine that. I can't do it for you. All I can do is tell you I know there is something permeant, and give you enough evidence that it indeed exists. Me telling you what it is won't do you any good, unless you are ready to accept it, and deal with what comes with it.

Think again about the room with 100 people. What would your reaction be to 100 different and conflicting answers to your question? If your reaction would be to be more determined to find what really is the truth, then you would be on your way to finding something that is permanent…
 
Take ageing for instance. If science succeeds in making life permanent ( barring accidents ) then what ?

We would be stuck with the same ageless dictators for ever, Tony Blair could never become Pope. !

Parents could be metabolically younger than their children ( keep taking those purple pills grandad ).

Ageing female beauties of the past could be re-juvenated - not all bad then - hi Brigitte

:LOL:
 
Atilla said:
Ruler measures distance. Distance doesn't exist either. Ruler only measures it self right?
Again, this is a human construct just like time.....under the subject of "space".....which is something I hope to touch upon later in this thread. Seeing that "time" appears to be such a difficult issue so far for most, am not sure if we are really ready to discuss "space".....lets see how open our minds really are!
 
Most people do not want the truth, and refuse to believe it even if they are enlightened. If knowing the truth would mean you would have to change your entire life, and your view of the world you live in, and it would be very uncomfortable and challenging, and you'd face ridicule from your peers, would you still accept it? Believe it? Embrace it?


Truth is one of those words that lying politicians have used for centuries, along with freedom etc.

Truth is a cruel mistress that has only temporary friends, when it suits them and plenty of enemies.

Try living with truth. It will only be for a short time.

Much better to espouse the better things in life even if it means er " agreeing with:-
the wife
the mistress
the boss
that noisy gang of kids down the road

you know what I mean.
 
Again, this is a human construct just like time.....under the subject of "space".....which is something I hope to touch upon later in this thread. Seeing that "time" appears to be such a difficult issue so far for most, am not sure if we are really ready to discuss "space".....lets see how open our minds really are!

Everything is a human construct. Man even created God to create the universe for him so it all adds up in his lil human brain.

How does a piece of pebble lying on the beach relate to it's environment?

There must be an answer for everything? surely. Right?

Somebody must have surely thought about and asked this question right?

I like to hear it in the words of the pebble not yours. See if you can get google to translate it for you?

Surely you must be curious to know what the pebble has to say or think about it's existence.

Also how comes they are all different shapes and sizes? Is it possible to find two identical pebbles. Is it possible to find two snow flakes? Two twins?

Surely someone has to find this **** out and tell us.

We need to know. Now!

The evolution of the human species depends on this ****. Come on guys get your act together. **** happens. We need to find out where it comes from and where it goes.

Someone must shovel this **** or else... :LOL:
 
Black Holes - Event Horizon: Combining the two, quantum v relative? Who is next in line for the, Nobel Prize?
If you are talking about black holes eventually sucking up earth then that will be another matter. If it happens, it will happen when it happens.....and there is nothing we can do to stop it.
If this is what you're referring to as something that which ends existence or not permanent.....then, no. Not in this particular way.
However, there are questions remains unanswered.....which is more important and immediate than the black hole. Maybe something we can pick upon later.....if our minds allow.

Nobel prizes aren't real prizes, there are no such things!
 
Nobody is sure The Universe is permanent even. It may start receding into a Great Crunch.

Strangely it looks like it is speeding up as it expands. So it will either dissipate into nothing or have mini crunches into parallel universes.
 
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