MT4 vs Sharescope vs Webfeed

[John26]

All,

I am spreadbetting using sharescope for forex and indices. The program in itself is great for longer term investing and portfolio management. From that point of view it is a 5 star. Their intraday implementation however I am not too happy with (too many quirks and bugs imo) and I feel i need to move on sadly.


Now, the question is
1- Should I be using MT4 (or MT5? difference?) with my spreadbetting data anyway? Is their data reliable, are ta indicators going to be reliable/acurate (ish)?
2 - Should I completely ignore spreadbetting feed and go with third party feed?

I understand that I can trade directly from MT4 and that is a plus if that is the case.
I would like my solution to support browser, ipad, alerts, hull and vidya ma with ribbons (multiple ma), candles and heikin ashi. That's pretty much all. I look at m5, h2, h4, d1 charts.
I think I might be right is thinking that candles from spreadbetting might not be accurate, for indices at least? Should be ok for forex since their quote should be the correct price? Am I right?

Solution doesn't have to be free if it works very well.

Thoughts and ideas welcome.

Many thanks.

 

[timsk]

. . .Thoughts and ideas welcome.

Hi John,
Wow - that's a lorra lorra questions as the late Ms. Black would say. I'll offer a broad brushstroke answer and you can get back to me if you'd like me to elaborate on anything.

I suspect you're spot on about Sharescope. Great software, nice people, but not really appropriate for intra-day trading. Indeed, it could be argued they're totally inappropriate if you're spread betting (SB). To wit . . .

Opinions differ on this front, but many members will tell you that if you're spread betting, by all means look at an independent price feed of the underlying instrument but, ultimately, you're trading their (i.e. the SB firm's) prices. They are market makers and you're trading against them. Therefore, you'd be wise to get a TA software package that uses their prices and to place your orders accordingly. If you trade based on the underlying data, you'll likely find that any orders other than market orders (e.g. stop and limit orders) are either triggered when they 'shouldn't' be or aren't triggered when they 'should' be.

The good news is that all SB brokers offer the MT4 platform which has most (if not all) that you require. Candlesticks, bars and Heikin-Ashi will all be accurate according to the SB firm's own data. But, for the reasons outlined above, they will differ from charts created using the underlying data. Whether or not MT4 suits you - only you can say. It's ubiquitous, so there's lots of help and support available. I battled with it for over a year for this very reason and it drove me crazy. (I've since moved on as it's utterly hopeless for traders like me who require non time based charts and/or charts based on tick data.) Horses for courses, you just have to try these things to determine what works - and what doesn't work - for you.
Tim.

 

[John26]

Hi John,
Wow - that's a lorra lorra questions as the late Ms. Black would say. I'll offer a broad brushstroke answer and you can get back to me if you'd like me to elaborate on anything.

I suspect you're spot on about Sharescope. Great software, nice people, but not really appropriate for intra-day trading. Indeed, it could be argued they're totally inappropriate if you're spread betting (SB). To wit . . .

Opinions differ on this front, but many members will tell you that if you're spread betting, by all means look at an independent price feed of the underlying instrument but, ultimately, you're trading their (i.e. the SB firm's) prices. They are market makers and you're trading against them. Therefore, you'd be wise to get a TA software package that uses their prices and to place your orders accordingly. If you trade based on the underlying data, you'll likely find that any orders other than market orders (e.g. stop and limit orders) are either triggered when they 'shouldn't' be or aren't triggered when they 'should' be.

The good news is that all SB brokers offer the MT4 platform which has most (if not all) that you require. Candlesticks, bars and Heikin-Ashi will all be accurate according to the SB firm's own data. But, for the reasons outlined above, they will differ from charts created using the underlying data. Whether or not MT4 suits you - only you can say. It's ubiquitous, so there's lots of help and support available. I battled with it for over a year for this very reason and it drove me crazy. (I've since moved on as it's utterly hopeless for traders like me who require non time based charts and/or charts based on tick data.) Horses for courses, you just have to try these things to determine what works - and what doesn't work - for you.
Tim.

Thanks Tim, very interesting.

I think MT4 is the way to go, keep it all in one place.
I am transferring my web account to MT4. Just spoke to them. They advised that I download MT4 from their website rather than from the internet, is there a reason for that? They say it's more secure? Nothing untoward in their version of MT4?

Also, I understand that index quotes are based on fair value, they decide what fair value is, so with that in mind, a candle could look different on their chart to what I would see on a cash chart. But I think they quote the actual price for forex, so my conclusion is that I can rely on forex candles whereas I should be cautious interpreting their indices candles? Can you please confirm if my assumption is correct?

Many thanks.

 

[timsk]

Hi John,

. . . They advised that I download MT4 from their website rather than from the internet, is there a reason for that? They say it's more secure? Nothing untoward in their version of MT4?

I don't know for sure, but it's probably fine - especially if the SB broker is one of the big ones registered in the west and suitably regulated. Our men on the inside who will be able to offer more informed answers are @Jason Rogers and @highbury fx Hopefully, one or other of them will see this and add their input.

. Also, I understand that index quotes are based on fair value, they decide what fair value is, so with that in mind, a candle could look different on their chart to what I would see on a cash chart. But I think they quote the actual price for forex, so my conclusion is that I can rely on forex candles whereas I should be cautious interpreting their indices candles? Can you please confirm if my assumption is correct?

Without wishing to sound patronising, I think this is a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. The key point is that if you're trading with a spread betting company (which is my understanding), then all their prices will be at odds with actual prices of the underlying instrument. It doesn't much matter whether you're trading indices, forex, stocks or commodities - you are trading the SB firm's own derivative product - not the underlying asset itself.

If you want to trade the 'true' price of an instrument, then the best way to do that is via a direct market access broker (DMA). The argument about the pros and cons of spread betting and DMA is as old as the hills and continues to rage to this day. Some members will tell you that it's next to impossible to day trade successfully through a SB broker. That was probably the case 10 years or so ago but, these days it's less clear cut, as the odds aren't stacked quite so heavily in favour of the SB firms as they once were. I recommend you do some research around this topic to ensure you're familiar with all the pros and cons of SB firms.
Tim.

 

[John26]

Hi John,

I don't know for sure, but it's probably fine - especially if the SB broker is one of the big ones registered in the west and suitably regulated. Our men on the inside who will be able to offer more informed answers are @Jason Rogers and @highbury fx Hopefully, one or other of them will see this and add their input.


Without wishing to sound patronising, I think this is a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. The key point is that if you're trading with a spread betting company (which is my understanding), then all their prices will be at odds with actual prices of the underlying instrument. It doesn't much matter whether you're trading indices, forex, stocks or commodities - you are trading the SB firm's own derivative product - not the underlying asset itself.

If you want to trade the 'true' price of an instrument, then the best way to do that is via a direct market access broker (DMA). The argument about the pros and cons of spread betting and DMA is as old as the hills and continues to rage to this day. Some members will tell you that it's next to impossible to day trade successfully through a SB broker. That was probably the case 10 years or so ago but, these days it's less clear cut, as the odds aren't stacked quite so heavily in favour of the SB firms as they once were. I recommend you do some research around this topic to ensure you're familiar with all the pros and cons of SB firms.
Tim.

Cool, very informative. Thanks for your time Tim.

I use ETX Capital. I don't really day trade, I hold for a few days if I have enough balls in my pants to let my winners run

I did think of switching to DMA CFD's (that's what you mean right?) with IG, I believe they provide this service. I have no problems paying my taxes if I make money and I know I am on a nice playing field not playing against the house. So, on that basis, CFD's are always going to be better than spread betting, right? because they won't care if I win or lose?
Would you know if I can use MT4 with IG if I were to switch to CFD DMA?

Again, thanks for your time, much appreciated.

 

[Splitlink]

As Tim says, if you are SB then you will trade at their price. I trade with Finspreads and they have their own chart service. Can't you do that? I doubt that they are the only ones.

This is just a suggestion, I'm too old a dog to change and don't want to go anywhere else! I mention this to keep the critics at bay!

I have compared charts outside, from time to time and, for me, the price difference is too close to worry about.

 

[tomorton]

John26 - I SB with LCG. If you're concerned about Sb firms offering prices that are way out from the underlying market, I am happy to look back over a chart and see what price LCG showed at a given time on a given day for an index or forex pair. The spread at the historic time will not be available but I could give you the bid/offer prices at the time of posting.

I honestly don;t believe for anyone who's not scalping that the SB price will be so different from the underlying as to make any difference. If the SB firms did drift their prices around, it would be noticed and they would be taken to the cleaners by alert traders with big bucks.

What you should be aware of is that the underlying charts and SB charts can be a little different - e.g. the underlying FTSE100 chart is derived from FTSE between 0800 and 1630: the LCG FTSE100 SB chart is from 2200-2200. A lot can happen globally between 1630 and 0800 and though it all corrects when the LSE re-opens your daily candlesticks can have quite different OHLC.

 

[timsk]

Hi John,
First things first: I recommend that you note the comments from Split' and Tom above, both of whom are very experienced traders who know their onions.

I use ETX Capital. I don't really day trade, I hold for a few days if I have enough balls in my pants to let my winners run?

ETX are absolutely fine. If you were to open an MT4 account with them and one with IG or LCG (Tom's broker) or Finspreads (Split's broker) - you're not going to notice a whole lot of difference. Yes, at any one time their respective prices on the same instrument will vary but, all other things being equal, it's highly unlikely that you'll make more money - or lose more money - with one firm rather than another. Between the four of them, it comes down to who offers the best spreads for the instrument(s) you trade and who offers the best customer service etc.

II did think of switching to DMA CFD's (that's what you mean right?) with IG, I believe they provide this service. I have no problems paying my taxes if I make money and I know I am on a nice playing field not playing against the house. So, on that basis, CFD's are always going to be better than spread betting, right? because they won't care if I win or lose?

CFD's are a true derivative product and some (but not all) firms will mirror verbatim the prices quoted on the underlying instrument. Does that mean you'll do better than you might do otherwise if you're spread betting? Possibly. The bottom line is that if you have a properly thought out trading plan which you've tested thoroughly, demo traded to prove that the theory at least has a chance to work and then forward tested using the smallest sums possible - and it's all working great - then the chances are you'll do okay whoever you go with. To the best of my knowledge, there's never been a thread where someone has tried both, made a tonne of money on each and then came down in favour of one rather than the other due to the tax saved (spread betting) or the marginally better prices (CFD). Again, it's horses for courses. In your shoes, I'd start with spread betting (cos it's quick and simple to understand) and see how you get on. If you can't make any money doing that, then switching to CFDs (or something else) is unlikely to turn your fortunes around.

Would you know if I can use MT4 with IG if I were to switch to CFD DMA?

I think so, yes.
As an aside, given my comments above, I wouldn't bother switching to IG for the reasons you suggest. I'm with IG simply because they offer ProRealTime TA software which, for me personally, knocks spots off MT4. It's much better. But that's just me, as I require non time based tick charts which you can't get with MT4.
Tim.

 

[tar]

"CFD's are a true derivative product and some (but not all) firms will mirror verbatim the prices quoted on the underlying instrument"

Not true , so cash indices cfds will mirror the cash underlying ? Ofcourse not . When it comes to fx and indices there is no difference between cfds and sb , they are all the firm's prices .

To the OP if you are new to trading then go with your own broker's mt4 .

GL

 

[John26]

...I have compared charts outside, from time to time and, for me, the price difference is too close to worry about.

Thanks. My concern is not so much about making or losing 5 pips, I don't scalp. My issue would be more with candles giving me wrong signals as a result of price being off (ie spikes).

 

[John26]

To the OP if you are new to trading then go with your own broker's mt4 .

GL

Cheers. I went with broker's MT4 - What is the difference then?