Moderators - Abuse of 'Power'

[searchlight]

May be it is time to introduce some light hearted "Thought for the day*" comment.

READ AND SMILE.

Life at T2W is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different limbs at different levels.

Some monkeys are climbing up, some down.

The monkeys on top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces.

The monkeys on the bottom look up and see nothing but assholes.

Searchlight.

* Taken from the notice board of a work place and I changed "work for "T2W"

 

[Crap Buddist]

Modbot V. X6

....I don't agree....If one can delete a post then one can 'black line' either a word in a post or whole post.....That would be better as it will frustrate a 'culprit' - if that is the right word....!

In your best Borat voice...... I like.....

suggested example now follows......


gecko you pheasant plucker , why dont you put your head up uranus and see if it fits.


and eh voila...... context is still maintained sanitised yet discussion blooms thereby aiding growth of a peoples.

 

[TheBramble]

There comes a point where continuing to question a decision made by somebody appointed to assist in running this site goes beyond reasonable discussion. You are at that point now, and I would it hope it ends there.

I wont bother addressing the irony of this coming from you or the speed with which you have assumed the mantle of expertise in moderation on this site.

However, to answer your point, I've started a thread on an issue which I believe is of interest to the wider membership. That you personally view it as a threat only underlines and supports the basis for my concerns.

I’m not questioning a decision, a one-off past event – I’m questioning whether now being aware of the situation, the mods are knowingly going to continue to operate in this manner or whether they will moderate themselves, by sticking to site guidelines.

If you don’t have any problems with your behaviour, that of the other mods, or the issues raised, then you don’t need to concern yourself with this thread any further – providing it stays within guidelines - and those that wish to, can.

Unless of course another unilateral decision is made in which case my point will have been made for me far more eloquently than I ever could.

The rest of your reply is not worth quoting nor is it appropriate for someone in your position.

 

[peto]

Unless there is clear evidence of serious contravention of site guidelines in posts and threads, the bias should be to leaving them alone. On that specific thread, moderator action had already been taken to edit out those posts which did contravene site guidelines. Rossored’s subsequent unilateral action in deciding to delete it effectively undermines his team, demeans the content supplied by the memebrs and devalues the entire site.

Well said Tony. It is really irritating when whole threads disappear. Although it doesn't often happen and Rossored has admitted it was a mistake in this case, mods should should tread lightly if they are not going to do far more harm than good.

The skills required of an exemplar mod for this site are an even temper, patience, tact, diplomacy, clarity of thought, lack of bias, total non-partisan impartiality, commonsense, integrity, no hint of previous ‘history;’ with any other member and lack of emotional volatility. Can you both tick all those boxes? I don’t think so.

Gosh I can only get 4/11 there (not tellin' which 4!). Your lucky I'm not out there.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

It was with great sadness and dismay that I had to sit and read this thread.

we are ordinary members like you all, and no, we do not "immediately gain the superior reasoning and intellectual faculties necessary". OK we have a few more gadgets and gizmo's but we see much the same as you all. we don't have to sit in judgment of anything, if it breaks site rules the post or thread is on a sticky wicket. same with members who are rude and disruptive, do you all really want that, day in day out, I know I don't.

Look, all we do is , answer questions to the best we can, general admin duties as editing posts to comply with site guidelines, or moving threads into the correct forum, clean and tidy...if we didn't you would all quickly drown in a cesspool of spam, ads and porn, you would have multiple posts to trawl through, and of course try and keep out the trolls, who do you think does this, the bloody fairies, no! its your mods, we do it for you! so you can log on in the morning and everything as far as possible is nice and neat.

If a post goes missing or thread bites the dust it is usually for a good reason, this should be pm'd to the poster or thread starter, time unfortunately is not on our side if there are big bunch of posts that need cleaning.

I think there is a huge coms problem, that is all. sort that we may sort the issues.

Guys, gals, we have only just started doing this for you, we are still learning.

Lightning

 

[Crap Buddist]

hmmm. This being a discussion board, community, then it has to be open and I'd say welcome discussion threads being opened, no matter what the topic, moderation included. A member is taking an interest, thats positive, isnt it?

I can see the point when The bramble says, the threads gone......... those thoughts, the discussion, the embarrassing questions, the il considered answers swept away , hid away .

Personally I think any topic should be open for discussion on a community discussion board that advertises, suggests the facility to encourage and nurture this exchange exists here at T2W.

The Bramble could have a point, I mean he does, he made one, detail...... its like my waffle on the subtle butterfly wing beats and the ripple out effect, the simple concept to allow discussion on any topic or not will impact the whole board......

topics, trading , drugs, back handers, racism, religion, beer, curry,sex, lol ooops thats free flow association.. but "the worlds problem come about when people stop talking" stephen hawkins wasnt it? and the fact a threads been binned, i think , for a discussion board, has to say, we need to improve something.

i think no thread should be pulled, providing, discussion and free expression and exchange of differeing views is or ties in with the objectives of a discussion website.

So what needs to be in place to deliver to that standard?

 

[TheBramble]

If a post goes missing or thread bites the dust it is usually for a good reason...

That's the thing Don. You edited that thread to ensure it kept within site guidelines. Ergo, after you had done that, it surely qualified to stay?

The thread had been sanitised to your satisfaction and had pretty much run its course. It had had a fair amount of interest and did, quite be accident LOL, cover a number of trading related issues of some importance. That’s not just my view, but you know that. It’s deletion was unwarranted.

Rossored's subsequent action after you had moderated to your satisfaction, appears to be based on nothing much at all it would seem other than apparently gratuitous whim and certainly nothing to do with the guidelines. An action which was completely at odds with your moderation and contrary to the wishes/interests of a number of members.

While these two new gunslingers have clearly let the mad rush of mod-power go straight to their heads, perhaps another indication of their suitability for the role, you do appear to have the stuff to be an effective moderator. However your attempt to use the case for the majority of the good work most mods do to cover this specific instance is simply not valid. There was no ‘good reason’ for deleting that thread.

Until you fellas get your act together and start supporting each other in a way that vaguely fits the guidelines you apparently moderate to and supports rather then dictates to the membership, issues like this are going to continue to arise with similarly damaging consequence to general moderator support.

I personally would like to see that thread reinstated. I should never have been deleted. I would also like to see threads and posts in future being edited/deleted in accordance with site guidelines rather than on individual whim or personal view.

The moderators role is one of service to the community – not an excuse to get off on a power trip.

 

[Priceman]

I did read this thread and say to myself don't bother getting involved

The "mission statement" says the site's a medium for the members to communicate with each other and express views...

Something's not quite right is it and I can't put my finger on it. Those in the know behind the scenes obviously have more of an understanding of the politics and why they chose to moderate the way they do. Instead of killing all dialogue and pushing people away why not give a bit more leash? We (well most) are adult enough to answer for ourselves if things get a little heated. There are more and more experienced traders not contributing much now which is a big shame. These guys and gals have given great guidance and help over the years and helped make the site what it is/was. You have to ask why don't they come back anymore? I've said it before, that I often go back over old stuff that's still very helpful and full of gems.

Anyway it's a thankless task that I just would not consider undertaking, so good luck to the 'chosen ones' We all need to contribute to making the mission statement happen by stoking the grey matter inside with some good discussions, within site guidelines obviously

Trade2Win (T2W) prides itself on being the leading community web site for active traders. Our aim is simple, we want to unite and support active traders across the globe. To this end we provide a range of facilities to enable our members to communicate with one another, share their knowledge and express their views. Furthermore we seek to provide educational and thought provoking content to help better educate our members in their trading lives.

http://www.trade2win.com/about/index.php

 

[rols]

If this site is genuinely interested in the views of it's membership, this post should get answered - rather than just ignored or deleted.

AND what about the removal of the thread title

"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

A certain irony perhaps....

On October 10th it was observed

Nanny's milky bosoms will smother the life out of these boards.

 

[Crap Buddist]

I did read this thread and say to myself don't bother getting involved

yes, its very easy to do isnt it, read it, see what the fuss is and walk on by, choose not to get involved, petty? no point? kinda see an angle but me speaking does or would it change anything..

Your post priceman is what the sites all about, a member feeling welcomed to discuss matters which concern them amongst the community. How tragic if you didnt bother? How tragic if The Bramble didnt bother? And then people who have bothered ,which has lead to an exchange of ideas views,all those views, time energy, good points bad points, snuffed out, gone, removed..

Worth questioning ?

Im glad you posted mate. Good health.

 

[barjon]

That's the thing Don. You edited that thread to ensure it kept within site guidelines. Ergo, after you had done that, it surely qualified to stay?

The thread had been sanitised to your satisfaction and had pretty much run its course. It had had a fair amount of interest and did, quite be accident LOL, cover a number of trading related issues of some importance. That’s not just my view, but you know that. It’s deletion was unwarranted.

Rossored's subsequent action after you had moderated to your satisfaction, appears to be based on nothing much at all it would seem other than apparently gratuitous whim and certainly nothing to do with the guidelines. An action which was completely at odds with your moderation and contrary to the wishes/interests of a number of members.

While these two new gunslingers have clearly let the mad rush of mod-power go straight to their heads, perhaps another indication of their suitability for the role, you do appear to have the stuff to be an effective moderator. However your attempt to use the case for the majority of the good work most mods do to cover this specific instance is simply not valid. There was no ‘good reason’ for deleting that thread.

Until you fellas get your act together and start supporting each other in a way that vaguely fits the guidelines you apparently moderate to and supports rather then dictates to the membership, issues like this are going to continue to arise with similarly damaging consequence to general moderator support.

I personally would like to see that thread reinstated. I should never have been deleted. I would also like to see threads and posts in future being edited/deleted in accordance with site guidelines rather than on individual whim or personal view.

The moderators role is one of service to the community – not an excuse to get off on a power trip.

Tony,

I'm a bit late in the day on all this having just returned from a sun drenched break.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the deletion of the thread in question there are a few points I would make.

Firstly, you are absolutely right to say that moderation should be in accordance with site guidelines and that's what we try to do since members have continually said that's what they want. However, unless one is to establish an extremely comprehensive and detailed set of guidelines covering all eventualities, mods have to operate within the "spirit of the guidelines" and make their judgements accordingly. For example, it's dead easy when someone posts a clear breach such as "you are a f******* pr****" but less easy when someone crafts their post apparently within guidelines but actually conveying the same abuse by implication. I think you have to allow for mods to operate in this way even though it means that members willl occasionally disagree with the action taken.

Secondly, I think it is wrong to suggest that any mods seek "to go off on a power trip" since we are all doing our best to moderate fairly and keep the boards civilised (again as members have said they want). Any action that may seem heavy handed usually has a good foundation, although I'd be the first to admit that we sometimes get it wrong.

lastly, I hope that people will give our new mods a chance to bed themselves in before arriving at any conclusions about how they operate. I doubt that any of us have the qualities of perfection that you list, but I know that everyone tries to moderate fairly and reasonably.

cheers

jon

 

[zambuck]

In your best Borat voice...... I like.....

suggested example now follows......


gecko you pheasant plucker , why dont you put your head up uranus and see if it fits.


and eh voila...... context is still maintained sanitised yet discussion blooms thereby aiding growth of a peoples.

.....Attached document shows what I was suggesting......

 

[options]

Well, it seems like certain people have attained that of which they set out to do without even being present.
Soco is no longer here and his own 'hidden secret agenda' was to disrupt the site as much as possible using mountains upon mountains of coloured ramblings, that over the last few months gave nothing of any worth and were just pretty coloured words on a screen. All done very sublimely, whereas his little mini me fellow new trader while trying to follow in the big footprints came across using rather blunter instruments, and would never in a million years attain soco like status or acumen. But we have acquired a certain 'in' fighting which is only detrimental in the long run.

What it comes down to is this:The unpaid moderators do the thankless task to the best of how they see fit. 100% of the members are not going to be happy all at the same time. Anyone has the choice to either stay or leave as they see fit. It is a free site! If...it became a subscription site, then then members would have more say in what goes on. But how many would pay to be here? Very, very few I would think.

This is probably the biggest trading related site in the english speaking world. I may be wrong, but in any case. It amassed its members very, very quickly and this may have put a few noses out of joint on other trading sites. The sad fact is that there has only ever been a handful of regular posters at different skill levels helping out each other in the battle of trading, the rest lurk because they have nothing to add, or do not want to offer anything.

If I was an owner of another related site, I and a few other 'buddies' might just have a wander over and pick a few fights and set everyone at each others throats. Especially If the paying member data base was dropping because all the info was available for free elsewhere.

 

[Splitlink]

My reason for not wanting to become a mod, apart for the fact that my application would, most likely, be refused, is that I consider that I would be unable to express myself freely. Mods have to be neutral. I, most definitely, am not. If I think that what I am reading is misleading I must say so. Normally, I am polite but if the other side sees fit to get insulting my character will not let it go.

If the mods delete my post, so be it. At least, I've said what I have to say. I must say, also, that I am still here, whilst most of those with whom I have quarreled are not (T2W take note, maybe I am a bad apple!)

If I became a mod, therefore, I think that I would not be the person I was before and, neither, would I be doing what I came to this board to do, that is, debate and (why not ?) dispute.

There are an awful lot of good people on here who are much more knowledgeable than me but who, probably, feel the same way as I do.

What I would say to the new mods is that if you are fair you'll never have problems, except from the odd groan, from us. Just remember that we are mere mortals and commit more sins than you could imagine possible.

One of the new mods was very active on the infamous Writing Put Options thread. I agreed with him, but did not express myself so forcefully!

Another, on Barjon's first "Wot" thread, seemed to be the only friend I had!

Good luck to all of you.

Split

 

[Crap Buddist]

.....Attached document shows what I was suggesting......

nice one zambuck, not sure if it would be quicker for the mods to just delete the offending line/s or posts ? I suppose if i was moderating then i'd just remove the entire post if the poster was attacking another member instead of the points of issue.

I appreciate the mods, im not here to beat them or anyone up, but moderation etiquette ,especially when whole threads vanish is worth raising a query over ? I mean I dont know why the thread was pulled ? Is it any concern for me ? well I had a bloody good Jimmy saville gag in there......

Split, I think you can be a mod and still express a view , your view if you wanted? I dont see anything wrong with that?

Happy Sunday all, and remember remember the 5th of november.........



Tomorrow..... hmm few fireworks kicking off in the markets soon ehh.... who'd be a bank shareholder.......

 

[zambuck]

nice one zambuck, not sure if it would be quicker for the mods to just delete the offending line/s or posts ? I suppose if i was moderating then i'd just remove the entire post if the poster was attacking another member instead of the points of issue.

I appreciate the mods, im not here to beat them or anyone up, but moderation etiquette ,especially when whole threads vanish is worth raising a query over ? I mean I dont know why the thread was pulled ? Is it any concern for me ? well I had a bloody good Jimmy saville gag in there......

Split, I think you can be a mod and still express a view , your view if you wanted? I dont see anything wrong with that?

Happy Sunday all, and remember remember the 5th of november.........



Tomorrow..... hmm few fireworks kicking off in the markets soon ehh.... who'd be a bank shareholder.......

......I agree that although it would be easy to delete the offending words of thread, I think the issue is about audit trail.....and thus keep the post but blank it out......or blank out the words........No one can then say that the words or text was pulled without good reason....

....Best Guy Faulks night celebrations and fireworks in whole of South East are in town of Lewes....I will be there...

 

[laptop1]

The only one who is wiser than anyone is everyone and there is more everyone on on these boards than anyone.

 

[zambuck]

.....That comment by one for anyone was even more wiser than everyone........

 

[Profitaker]

I’m not questioning a decision, a one-off past event – I’m questioning whether now being aware of the situation, the mods are knowingly going to continue to operate in this manner or whether they will moderate themselves, by sticking to site guidelines.

Well, I can only re-iterate what I’ve previously said; namely that I agree entirely with Rossored’s decision the pull the thread. My reasoning being that the thread was started for no other purpose than to provoke futile arguments and antagonise. This is entirely different to a thread that was started with an intent of meaningful discussion (however vauge the topic), but which subsequently goes off the rails and descends into arguments and pie throwing. There is a vast difference between the two Tony, and whilst the later is probably worth trying to save, the former certainly isn’t.

If a thread is started in the same vein in future, I would hope it be dealt with in exactly the same manner. You may not agree with this, but a difference of opinion in this respect does not amount to an “Abuse of Power”, IMHO.

Barjon / Options – totally agree with the sentiment.

Splitlink – I think we can still have an opinion, and do the job well.

 

[TheBramble]

the thread was started for no other purpose than to provoke futile arguments and antagonise.

If you ever actually get around to checking that thread, you'll find the bait was not taken and more to the point, was effectively turned back at the would-be assailant. Had any of you had the wit to understand that, we wouldn’t be in this current situation.

Rossored's totally inappropriate action in deleting that thread after it had been edited to another mod’s satisfaction has provoked more futile argument and antagonism (which will be remembered) than any that could have been hoped for by the original poster.

In any event, I thought Rossored had been taken off active mod duties because of the conflict with his sales revenue generation work for the site? Or has Sharky gone back on that now?

I’m not going to be posting any more on this thread. And until and unless that thread is reinstated, I wont be posting any more on this site – period. I’m no longer prepared to have my efforts erased on a whim.

Your choice. And I think I know which way you’ll go.

Just as long as the membership understand…