Making Money Trading

[superspurs]

sos mate there must have been a power failure!!(notice only the shadow got through though..almost.lol)
anyway out for about 1:1. USDJPY also out for about 1:1. AUDJPY out for a loss.


at the risk of getting banned from the thread,i also would tend to take profits earlier and look to re-enter from any retracement later IF it did take off.Yesterday was a prime example,there were a few opertunities to close the long at the top end of the range ,of around 60 pips!and wait a new entry signal. giving 50 pips or so back to the market would give me a mild stroke!100 would defenately give me something severe and permanent!!but then thats why i prefere the shorter trades.to be serious though NOT being in the market gave me the oppertunity to short the break.something to think about

looking back in hindsight cable was sort of waving the white flag around 9830ish,so do you move your stop up after every bar.

 

[zishor]

I've had a loosing streak now too. I don't think taking profits too early is a solution. See, if you only take 1 R in a lossing streak on a winnig trade you will never earn money or keep the losses on the overall account mild.

Wonder how T_D traded the last couple of days. my loosers have been:

CADCHF 15.05.2008
USCRUDEOIL 15.05.2008
USDCAD 15.05.2008
EURJPY 23.05.2008
USCRUDEOIL 23.05.2008
EURUSD 27.05.2008
GBPCHF 27.05.2008

 

[trader_dante]

I've had a loosing streak now too. I don't think taking profits too early is a solution. See, if you only take 1 R in a lossing streak on a winnig trade you will never earn money or keep the losses on the overall account mild.

Wonder how T_D traded the last couple of days. my loosers have been:

CADCHF 15.05.2008
USCRUDEOIL 15.05.2008
USDCAD 15.05.2008
EURJPY 23.05.2008
USCRUDEOIL 23.05.2008
EURUSD 27.05.2008
GBPCHF 27.05.2008

Zishor, you are completely right. You will find it very hard to come out ahead in the long run if you take 1R on a trade. You have to ride a trend. If you are long in the GBP/USD daily pin bar for example, you should STILL be long. This trade is up over 350 ticks. Unless you can capture moves like this how can you pay for your losers?

Zishor, sorry to hear about your losing streak. I went live last week with limits in several markets. My first two trades which were both shorts were losers. The first was the Crude Oil 1hr pin on 23rd May and another was short in the US T-Note on the same day. I graded both these setups before I took them and I gave both around 6/10. I took these trades at minimum size with the intention of adding if they moved in my favour. This means my losses were relatively small.

10/10's don't come around very often. An example of one was this pin in the Dax. I don't have limits in this market unfortunately.

Wait for only the best setups. I have traded only twice in five days. Sit on your hands. Patience will reward you.

 

[zishor]

Hi T_D,

thank you for that reply. One big thing I noticed the last trades that I sometimes unwillingly overtraded by not knowing the market relations. the USD pairs sometimes move all against you.

Nice to hear that you are still in the GBPUSD, I've been thrown out at 1,975 cause I trailed the stop to early ...where is your stop now?

Have a great day
Frank

 

[1Pipped]

I don't think taking profits too early is a solution. See, if you only take 1 R in a lossing streak on a winnig trade you will never earn money or keep the losses on the overall account mild.

That is true zishor I wouldnt consider taking 1r quickly because its not enough.

I think it depends on the individual trade, and that there probably isnt a quick answer about whether to hold or not.

Probably aslo depends on the person too. jonj would have a stroke giving back the amount of profit I gave back yesterday, but its quite normal for me. I would have a heart attack trading the short term breaks like he does but its quite normal for him. We just better hope we dont end up with each others trading plans or the future doesnt look very good

Another thing is when personA says 'hold your trades' and then personB says 'no get out quick' they could both be talking about doing the same thing ! but personA sees 5 bars 100 pips as a long hold whereas personB sees 5 bars 100 pips as getting out quick. They both see the same thing completely differently, thats a bit of zen philosophy for you on this morning

Another job for me today so no trading I doubt, :clover: to anyone who does.

 

[TheTick]

I've had a loosing streak now too. I don't think taking profits too early is a solution. See, if you only take 1 R in a lossing streak on a winnig trade you will never earn money or keep the losses on the overall account mild.

Just a suggestion, and something I am playing around with at the moment, is to scale out of positions. I tend to look if there is an area around 1xRisk, preferably just beyond, and take maybe a third or a quater of the trade off whilst moving the stop for the remainder to b/e. Then I look for anything between 2 or 3xRisk for exiting another third or quarter, move the stop up again and leave the rest on until I think either the move is running out of steam or the trade goes a big distance in a short space of time. Still working on this, but does suit my way of trading to at least take something off the table if a trade goes OK but not fantastic.

Incidentally, T_D, I didn't get the pin on the DAX as mine is future and I believe your chart is cash. However, the day before (21/5, 10am) both EuroStoxx and FTSE gave really great short trades on 60 min chart with textbook set-ups: retracement of a sharp down move to a resistance level and 61.8% Fib (to the exact tick in the case of the FTSE!). They dumped immediately, and I scaled out as above making a tidy profit although I did take profit on the last portion of EuroStoxx too early. Still, a work in process and a lesson learnt nearly every day which is crucial for progress to be made.

Apologies for the lack of charts - having real problems uploading them.

 

[zishor]

Some pins a forming this hour but they don't look very perfect to me (to small wick in the opposite side):

XAUUSD Pin Rating (not trade) 6 / 10 Points
EURGBP Pin Rating (not trade) 4 / 10 Points
AUDUSD Pin Rating (not trade) 5 / 10 Points

How do you rate this pins? Since only Gold is acceptable for me I will now check the criteria for a trade

 

[zishor]

XAU:

Pro's:
890 is a significant round number and price repelled about 3 times the last two months
Since we are in an uptrend 890 is a 61,8% Retracement from the last high (935) related to the last major swing low at 860.
In my checklist I have also one point saying: Dont trade against a macd (5 9 3) divergence. We have a slight positive divergence in this case.
The second downleg now is about the same as the first one. One could anticipate that a sharp correction is now over.

Con's:
the pin bar looks not good, the red body is too big and almost down to 50% of the candle.


Now I am in trouble. TD empazises on the look of the pin. Would love to discuss this sample setup with you guys
Regards

 

[anddy26]

has anyone put master dantes posts on a word document?...if not i am trying to do so..and only another 230 pages to go..lol..as a newbie im going to try and follow ur system..tried scalping the ftse..not for me....Cheers

 

[Eltrader]

Hey all, Many, many thanks and much respect goes out to T_D for his time and knowledge to this thread, and all the other guys that have contributed from da early posts, just this minute finished reading every page, now its time to put it all to the test, just a quick couple of questions for T_D, any more updates on the Journal you were thinking of putting together on your findings with working with the big boys...? And how are you finding it there now, are you making live trades yet...? Keep up the good work guys...!

 

[jonj]

That is true zishor I wouldnt consider taking 1r quickly because its not enough.

not nearly

I think it depends on the individual trade, and that there probably isnt a quick answer about whether to hold or not.

i
i think it COMPLETELY depends on each individual trade,and i think a person should have a good idea what each set up they enter can PROBABLY offer and a good idea of how reliable the set up is.e.g.if your win ratio for setup xy is 50-50 then a 1:1 r/r isnt going to make you money and should be avoided.also if the price has moved xy in your favour it has to be considered in relation to the norm of set up xy and only then can you determine how far the move has gone. of course not all set ups are accountable like this,trading the trend for e.g. you can never really tell how far the price will go.
i dont think profit taking is related to this r/r question??there are many ways to scale in/out of a position and lock in profits and i also think it depends on each individual trade as to how it should be applied.

Probably aslo depends on the person too. jonj would have a stroke giving back the amount of profit I gave back yesterday, but its quite normal for me. I would have a heart attack trading the short term breaks like he does but its quite normal for him. We just better hope we dont end up with each others trading plans or the future doesnt look very good

i also agree,i would certainly suffer something severe if the price went against me 60-70 pips!!!

Another job for me today so no trading I doubt, :clover: to anyone who does.

dont you hate other jobs??!!??

 

[portomar]

dont you hate other jobs??!!??

yea bigtime!

anyone watching daily gold at the moment?

 

[1Pipped]

dont you hate other jobs??!!??

YES :!:

edit:
portomar just been looking at gold and silver myself, I dont usually watch them and havent been watching s/r levels. Silver had a nice pin off a fib level on Oandas daily chart, and gold daily bar looked like it was going to end as a pin but dropped quite a bit while I was looking. Ill check them later when the daily bars finish.

 

[jonj]

Zishor, you are completely right. You will find it very hard to come out ahead in the long run if you take 1R on a trade. You have to ride a trend. If you are long in the GBP/USD daily pin bar for example, you should STILL be long. This trade is up over 350 ticks. Unless you can capture moves like this how can you pay for your losers?

T_D i think you right and i dont think your gonna get many arguments about it here either,but i would like to here your opinions on buying/selling in and out of a move rather than riding the retracements??taking your chart as an e.g. i notice there was a retracement of about 50-60 points,would ypu not concider covering at least a portion of your position and look to re-enter as the move continues??your time appreciated.

 

[jonj]

YES :!:

just finished for a week or two!!WHOOHOO!!can concentrate for a change

edit:
portomar just been looking at gold and silver myself, I dont usually watch them and havent been watching s/r levels. Silver had a nice pin off a fib level on Oandas daily chart, and gold daily bar looked like it was going to end as a pin but dropped quite a bit while I was looking. Ill check them later when the daily bars finish.

Q. why cant i get gold/slv on my mt4 OR oanda charts??

 

[trader_dante]

just a quick couple of questions for T_D, any more updates on the Journal you were thinking of putting together on your findings with working with the big boys...? And how are you finding it there now, are you making live trades yet...? Keep up the good work guys...!

Hello Eltrader,

I still haven't started my journal. It's something I want to do but just don't seem to have the time right now. I will keep you updated though.

I'm very much enjoying my time as a prop trader and am finally trading live. I've got limits in Eur/Usd, Gbp/Usd, Usd/Jpy, Oil, Mini Dow, US T-Note, Wheat, Corn and Soybeans and will hopefully get some in Gold and Silver too.

 

[trader_dante]

T_D i think you right and i dont think your gonna get many arguments about it here either,but i would like to here your opinions on buying/selling in and out of a move rather than riding the retracements??taking your chart as an e.g. i notice there was a retracement of about 50-60 points,would ypu not concider covering at least a portion of your position and look to re-enter as the move continues??your time appreciated.

Jonj,

Buying and Selling in and out of a move is a viable strategy for some. My personal belief is that if you have a good entry into a market that is starting to trend - DON'T LOSE YOUR POSITION.

It's easy to say in hindsight: I could have bought it here, cut half at this level, bought it back lower down...etc etc but if you cut half or even all of your position and you don't get a chance to get back in, you can be on the sidelines when the market moves massively.

I have no problems giving profits back. I do it regularly. I believe you have to give to receive

 

[pbb2577]

USD/JPY 4hour chart

A pin has formed on the 4 hr chart of the USD/JPY indicating a potential short. The bars following have formed inside bars, so it is worth waiting for the confirmation of the break. In addition, we have confluence in the form of a recent trend line (down) across the tops created since the beginning of May.
My chart shows the nose picking up and crossing through a former up trend line also....this is from a former up trend going back to the beginning of March.

Watch this space.....it will probably trigger (or not) during the night so place your orders.

pbb2577

 

[1Pipped]

Q. why cant i get gold/slv on my mt4 OR oanda charts??

On Oanda you goto preferences->quotes. Above the list of quotes on the 'add' side, is a dropdown menu (I didnt notice it either ...) well its set to 'currencies' but there is another option in there called 'commodities' and thats where gold and silver are

 

[jonj]

[

QUOTE=trader_dante;437702]

Jonj,



It's easy to say in hindsight: I could have bought it here, cut half at this level, bought it back lower down...etc etc

I have no problems giving profits back. I do it regularly. I believe you have to give to receive

thanx T_D,i agree it is only TOO easy to see 50/50 in hindsight which is why i asked your opinion,and i also believe there is no reward without risk in this buisness but i geuss i think in shorter time frames and the number of pips sounds a lot to me.

but if you cut half or even all of your position and you don't get a chance to get back in, you can be on the sidelines when the market moves massively.

im not in favour of cutting your position,im either in or out usually,but if there is a massive move would there not be another chance to enter??and how often does this happen compared to being stopped out without further gains?? at what point do you actually close the trade therefore??or do you just wait for your stop loss to get hit??in your experience what is your overall assesment??i think it is an important point that you make about buying into a trend,then holding your position can v. profitable.
again your time appreciated.