MA Cross-Over Strategy for the Newbie

iffex

Newbie
2 0
Thanks for making him rage guys! While you are at it let's talk about how the markets are completely random. Also lower time frames are just noise and trading them equals gambling. Yep yep what else? hmm...

edit: Oh I got one! Investing in stocks is also gambling. Why you may ask? Because 'studies' have shown that randomly picking stocks outperform stocks picked by 'experts'.

EVERYTHING IS GAMBLING AFTER YOU'VE LOST IN IT. FACT.

edit: Got another one! "You're not an expert until you trade with just 1:2 maximum leverage" HAHAHAHAHAHA guy was averaging endlessly completely forgetting there are many ways to trade.

I am going to die mad and restless. Just 1 stupid 'fact' or opinion I read takes me off course for the whole day. Makes me rage so much.
 
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Vorbis

Well-known member
270 35
I am going to die mad and restless. Just 1 stupid 'fact' or opinion I read takes me off course for the whole day. Makes me rage so much.

Looking forward to more of your posts.
 
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JourneyFX

Junior member
12 1
This is my first post here, but I've been a lurker for a number of years. I trade full-time now and the way I got there was by taking some of the tools that 7th put out there and learned to use them to my advantage. So, I can't speak for others but I can say that what I have learned from 7th, has been invaluable to me as a trader quite honestly. And, I probably would not be as grounded a trader as I am today, had it not been for the fundamentals of what 7th was sharing. And, that brings up another very good point.

You seem to get bashed when you go online to talk about what works for you. And, when you share something that either other people can't understand, don't understand, or don't care to understand because they are too busy protecting the world from system sellers, you also seem to get bashed. The bashing that I've seen 7th endure over the years, have always been some of the most irrational behavioral indictments against those doing the bashing that you could possibly imagine. I've seem the guy start several threads on several boards and he always makes it abundantly clear at the outset that he's engaged in the public phase of his research and that he likes to do some portions of his work in the public because it prevents him from creating rationalizations about the negative aspects of the system he was building. I find that a very honest approach, because he's being honest with himself by forcing himself to not fall into the trap of rationalizing away failure.

Yet, each time those who engaged in irrational bashing, never seemed to actually READ the very first post he makes, where people are clearly told that he's not selling anything and that he's not a fund manager nor does he want to be. When I read the opening post in the Advanced thread that he created here, he once again made his intentions for the thread crystal clear to all who took the time to read it. So, anyone questioning whether or not he was selling something, did so in a display of irrational assumption as the answer to the question was sitting right there on the very first page. For every thread that 7th has started where the bashing quickly ensued, this always seemed to be the case. People with some other kind of agenda, jumping into the middle of his thread where he's doing nothing but talking about what he created and what he researched, end up becoming the non-contributors to the thread and drive the thread off-topic into a place where it does not belong and those who want to possibly learn something they did not know before are the people who get cheated in the end.

I've personally witnessed this guy trade people into the ground, quite honestly. I've seen him do it on more than one occasion where somebody calls him out with some kind of challenge. This happened here on T2W, it happened on ForexFactory, it happened on MoneyTec, it happened on EliteTrader and it happened on DailyFx. In each instance, the guy unleashed torrent of trades that kicked butt and took names. The journal that 7th had on DailyFx and ForexFactory, got so bad for the bashers that they simply stopped posting inside his journal and started their own thread called Jack's House of Pain - or something like that. Later, the main protagonist inside 7th's trade journal turned out to be a swindler or epic proportions.

Most of you know the man as "Jack." The other trade journal on ForexFactory was so successful that right in the middle of posting live trades, ForexFactory shut the thread down. No warning. No statement about why - just gone. Then they deleted the entire thread, as if it never happened. I saw about 21 trades in a row that were all net positive with maybe 2 or 3 that were closer to break even. The guy was relentless and brutal in how he executed on the market. He simply started journal, began making live trades and when he got into the twenties, all of a sudden the journal was closed and the bashers continued their discussion in another thread that was allowed to remain open. None of them talked about the 21+ trades that were remarkably precise as I can recall it. They had absolutely nothing to say about the trades, but they bashed the guy anyway. It was completely irrational because there was nothing inside his journal but trades and technical discussion about his trading system - that's it. That was enough to get the journal shut down and ultimately deleted.

It happened again, here on T2W. Somebody called him out based on some off-topic rant the used to hijack his thread. 7th then did something that I had never seen him do quite frankly. He opened up a can of about 17 trade simultaneously - it was bizarre. 17 positions, simultaneously with no stops at all. He then began updating the entire basket in real-time. The next thing I knew, each trade started hitting its target, one by one. By the end of the week, I think a couple trades had lost some money, but the winners were enough for him to pocket over $300k in a week. Once again, the bashers completely ignored the trades put right under their nose - all 17 of them. And, once again they continued talking about some of the most irrelevant nonsense under the sun - all the while acting as if the trades did not exist. I sat right here and watched the entire thing unfold and it was exactly like all the other forums.

Whether the dude is trading or taking about his research, the irrational bashers always seem to come out of the woodwork to spoil things for those who just might want to try and learn something of value. If the man can trade like that over this many years, then maybe he know something that the basher types don't.

I'm not here defending anyone, but I have grown sick and tired of the same old song, each and every time. If someone is doing nothing more than discussing their trading system, then who the heck am I to bash them. I have not done their research. I have not spent the countless hours doing their study for them. I have not worked as hard as they have on their ideas to bring them to fruition. And, I certainly know that I can't trade like them - so why would I not want to learn what I can from what they are willing to put in the public domain. Unless I can out-trade the guy, it would be foolish to not learn from someone like that.

You can't expect someone to be nice to you, when the very first thing you do is bash them. That's just plain stupid. Anybody has a right to defend themselves when being arbitrarily bashed for no good reason whatsoever. Every claim he's made about trading accuracy, I've witnessed him back it up. I can't speak for other forums that he might have been on, but I go back to the days when he was still trading stock options and kind enough to maintain a freaking email list with about 30 other people. That was his personal time that he spent with people - he did not owe that to us or anyone else for that matter. He did that out of his own generosity, or desire to simply discuss what he was doing and help somebody along the way. In all this time, I have never once seen a sales pitch. His discussions have always been technical oriented when it came to his trading - not sales oriented.

How many times do the irrational people on forums have to screw things up for those of us who want to improve our trading, by running someone off who happens to be a better trader than probably all of us combined.

Some of you guys really need to think about what you are doing and why you are doing it, because you don't seem to understand what you are doing at all, quite frankly, if the truth be told.

7th:

If you are still there, why not simple let the traders who want to participate in your public trials, put together a forum expressly dedicated for that purpose. This was tried before, but you did not want to participate in that forum because you were weary of its origins - that's understandable. Why don't you be the forum moderator and remove anyone who constitutes a threat to learning. I think that you have finished your system by now, so this may not appeal to you, but if it does, please drop by and indicate your interest and I'd more than happen to pay for the server maintenance, etc. Consider it an FX Research Group, dedicated to new ideas in trading FX, or whatever. Jut indicate that you have an interest and I'll take care of the rest.

You might remember me from the old NOC option days, back when we both bought Wisetrade at about the same time. You maintained an email list and may handle back then was OptionX, if you can recall that. I think I was the one in the email group asking the most questions. When you moved everything over to Yahoo, I used the handle Traderjohn. So, I hope you remember me. I am a full time trader now, thanks in large degree to what you helped me understand, but I'd still like to improve upon what I'm doing and I know that you have developed your system beyond where it was back when your project was called StealthTrader.

If you read this, give me a shot here and I can give you my email, so we can set things up if you still want to do something like that.

All the best, 7th.
 
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JourneyFX

Junior member
12 1
I’m sorry that I don’t have the energy to come up with the equivalent in Anti-Aircraft Gunnery metaphors to shoot you down sir, but you’re leading newbies into your Top Gun flight school fantasy (bet that flight suit is real shiny and tight, eh?), when all they want is something that they can trade the markets with.

Which you have given then where exactly? You told people to go "LOOK" at a chart and observe "higher highs, lower lows, S&R, etc.," but you have nothing to the noob that they can actually trade with. So, does the same irrational standard giving people things apply to everyone equally on the forum, or does it only apply to people you don't like?

Plus, with respect,

But, that's the point! You've never been respectful. I've watched you bash 7th from day one on this forum, when all the guy did was post about his work and answered technical questions from people asking genuine questions. You've never walked that path. Maybe you felt the limelight was being taken away from you, I don't know. But, you certainly have never been respectful of the guy, that much is certain.


your method is deeply flawed in that although you openly state “rarely will the market generate Trade Logic conditions that are always optimal” what that means is you leave a gaping chasm for subjective interpretation of what, if it isn’t optimal, is a ‘go’ Ice Man. Perhaps the bait you leave with your last post on ‘more to come’. I bet there is.

There you go again. Just as irrational as I remember you from way back. He clearly annotated his very first post and he even used color, for the irrational types like yourself, so there would be no excuses. He typed the word optimal and then he put in parenthesis the words VERY RARE. You were then instructed to READ all of the notes below the optimal set-up. If you had done that, rather than going nuclear, then you would have also read where 7th indicated that in this thread the noob would learn to trade this method between optimal set-ups. He even called it dog fighting. But, obviously you never read or you read but had problems understanding. Either way, it is your fault for being so irrational.

You sure you’re not TradeVector reincarnated from his last crash? LOL

As far as I recall sitting here watching it, you were the one who crashed. Today, you've got the story a bit backward. Typical vitriol from irrational bashers.

Anyhow, if anyone really wants to trade an MA-X, what is wrong with having just one MA and the Price?[/quotes]

Who said anything was wrong with what you just suggested. Where is YOUR thread that helps noobs understand how to trade with just one MA and price? This is the kind of total hypocrisy that I have observed from people trying to act like forum police for years now. You paint with a broad brush about what somebody else should be doing, but you don't have a trade journal or a thread that does any of the things you claim that somebody else should know about or be doing, or could do better.

You need to wang in a few more bits & bobs like volatility (which you can establish with price deviation from one MA anyway) and prior trend in the timeframe you’re trading, but getting them hung up on multiple timeframes using the same method in each is just going to confuse the bazookas out of ‘em.

That's the problem as I see it, you criticize the dude yet you completely misquoted everything that was sitting right in front of your face. This tells anyone who paid any attention as I have, that you either did not read the first post in its entirety, or you did read it but could not understand what was being conveyed. So, you do what I and others have witnessed you do quite frequently when you come in contact with someone you have hang-ups with, you either quote someone out of context, or you completely get the initial point of the thread all twisted in a bunch of knots and half-backwards to boot.

Maybe you'd be better off by not acting like a spoil child who is afraid that something else might occupy mummy and daddy's attention for a nanosecond, which means they won't have their eyes on you for a hot minute. I think I'm really on to something when I say that. I've surveyed a lot of your posts and quite honestly, I see some of the highest level of useless HDD space taking stuff that I've seen in a very long time in online forums for traders.

It is almost like you post because you are bored - to heck with the actual topic being discussed. Just as long as you can read your own print, you seem to be fat and happy with that.
 

JourneyFX

Junior member
12 1
Basic charts needed:


  • Monthly
  • Weekly
  • Daily
  • 4 Hour
  • 1 Hour
  • 30 Minute
  • 15 Minute
  • 5 Minute
  • 1 Minute

Chart type:


  • Candle Stick

Optimal trade logic: (very rare)

Long if;
Monthly Candle = Green
Weekly Candle = Green
Daily Candle = Green
4 Hour Candle = Green
1 Hour Candle = Green
30 Minute Candle = Green
15 Minute Candle = Green
5 minute Candle = Green
and if;
Green line crosses Red line
Short if;
Monthly Candle = Red
Weekly Candle = Red
Daily Candle = Red
4 Hour Candle = Red
1 Hour Candle = Red
30 Minute Candle = Red
15 Minute Candle = Red
5 minute Candle = Red
and if;
Red line crosses Green line
General trade logic: (high frequency - skills development)

Long if;
Green line crosses Red line
Short if;
Red line crosses Green line
NOTES: (you need to read each one very carefully)


ok, so. These were his rules for the general trade logic. Ok, I got that part and I did read each note carefully as instructed. I'm going to go ahead and try this while posting my set-ups here. I don't need this by any stretch, but I think it would at least interesting to note what actually happens. This was supposed to be for noobs to get familiar with consistency -- at least that was my take away from reading 7th's initial post.

i will test this for myself and try to do it live. However, I gather there will be some time delays in working with 1 minute charts live and trying to post hyperlinks to photo hosting sites while trading at the same time. So, I venture to guess that some pics will be lagged or even missed because of the speed of the market and the need to trade first and post second.

anyway i'll try it out and we shall see how she goes on monday. the rules don't seem difficult at all to follow, so I don't need 7th here to help with that. i do see that there was supposed to be some evolving instruction of some sort and it looks like i won't have the benefit of knowing what 7th had in mind - - but i'll do my level best.

if there are any noobs that want to join in - - know that i'm familiar with 7th's work as far as he discussed it online. i went off to build my own trading system based on his work and some of my own unconventional creations, so i do not know every detail about his latest work. but, if noobs want to chime in and participate - - just feel free to do so.

i'll do a whole day of this on monday and we'll track the results here. i am a swing trader, so i have no idea what to expect but it should prove interesting.

7th: Traderjohn reporting for duty. i request that you activate my flight status. :p
 

StupidCow

Active member
196 0
I was not going to post, but I decided that enough was enough. You people on Trade2Win, seem to have a bent for destructive behavior. I've been a Trade2Win observer from a distance for a long time. I keep seeing the same kind of typical behavior and it is really unbecoming of anyone who deems themselves a stable minded trader. There does not seem to be a whole lot of trading advice, guidance, support or knowledge in existence here and I always get the distinct impression that there is this kind of European arrogance always at play on this board. A sort of closed minded myopic view of the world, so to speak. A lot of arrogance basically.

I'm not sure if the arrogance comes from being such astute traders, or whether or not it comes from being failures as traders, but the arrogance with which some people on Trade2Win approach others who come here to genuinely share and inform., is really palpable for any discerning character.

I don't much about TN7, but I do know when I am reading someone with obviously more trading expertise than what I have and it would have been nice to at least be able to read what that person had to say in this thread. I was on Elite Trader for a hot minute and the same sort of arrogant approach was taken to successful traders there as well, so maybe I should apologize for laying this kind of forum behavior all at the doorstep of the Europeans. I spent some time in the U.K. and I can definitely pick-up on some of the accents around here and there are many.

Is this site about trading or what? Or, has this site turned into a good-ole-boys online meeting place for the not so engaged traders of the U.K.? Wow! I remember a time when this site was jumping hot. Now, it seems like a place where failed traders come to hang out and proclaim how they despise the successful traders, or how everything about trading is gambling, gambling, gambling and more gambling. If I see the word gambling on this site one more time, I'm gonna puke all over my laptop keyboard. Trading is not gambling.

I look forward to seeing JourneyFX do his thing, despite all the little silly people.


--------------
Truly,
StupidCow
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
Verbosity may be a clue

Or maybe an alter ego for whoever he's defending. Got careless (or clueless) with the IP address ? Low post count alter egoes seem very popular with sellers. Characteristically, their defense is usually elaborate and laborious, as if they know to the nearest atom of the person they are defending.
 

evertontrader

Member
61 9
I’m sorry that I don’t have the energy to come up with the equivalent in Anti-Aircraft Gunnery metaphors to shoot you down sir, but you’re leading newbies into your Top Gun flight school fantasy (bet that flight suit is real shiny and tight, eh?), when all they want is something that they can trade the markets with. Plus, with respect, your method is deeply flawed in that although you openly state “rarely will the market generate Trade Logic conditions that are always optimal” what that means is you leave a gaping chasm for subjective interpretation of what, if it isn’t optimal, is a ‘go’ Ice Man. Perhaps the bait you leave with your last post on ‘more to come’. I bet there is.

You sure you’re not TradeVector reincarnated from his last crash? LOL

Anyhow, if anyone really wants to trade an MA-X, what is wrong with having just one MA and the Price?

You need to wang in a few more bits & bobs like volatility (which you can establish with price deviation from one MA anyway) and prior trend in the timeframe you’re trading, but getting them hung up on multiple timeframes using the same method in each is just going to confuse the bazookas out of ‘em.

Nothing like a little friendly fire in the morning, smells like, victory.



I couldn't of said it better myself.
 
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evertontrader

Member
61 9
Are there any Newbies interested in learning how to trade? Of course, T2W is filled with clueless people who can't tie their own shoelaces - that's not who I am interested in. If you are a Newbie and can follow some pretty basic instructions/directions, then read-up on the first post and join in on the lead.

Class starts tomorrow. We'll see you then.


You really are an obnoxious person with an unhealthy fixation on highlighting how much you know and how little everyone else does. Wouldn't it suit you better to start a religion than act clever on a forum?

I'd question how someone as pig-headed as you can be successful in the markets when objectivity rules over all. The reality is you're probably not.
 

15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
Often times, we see a post that reads something like this:

Hello T2W!

I'm a total Newbie and I'm ready to learn how to trade successfully. I want to know how I can use a simple Moving Average Cross over System, to consistently make profits. I'm open to suggestions and I am ready, able and willing to learn. What MA periods should I use and what time-frame is best to trade?

Thanks,
Newbie
--------------------------------------

My answer to the Newbie is this: If you want to use simple MAs, then you need to become a Tactical Combat Trader. Which means that you have to go to Tactical Combat Trader School, where you can teach yourself to become a fighter, survivor and winner.

Using the MA:

The period for each MA is 21 and 7 respectively. The MA type almost doesn't matter, but go ahead and use EMA. Set both EMAs to calculate their respective lines on Close. Set 7 to Fast and 21 to Slow. Set Fast line to color Green. Set Slow line to color Red and plot both MAs on the M1 chart.

Use a demo account (a no brainer), until you can consistently pull down at least 30 pips a day (minimum). This is not hard, nor is this difficult, AFTER you've understood the reasons behind why this works. Until you discover those reasons, it will be difficult to handle the losing trades that will come with such a method.

The fact of the matter is that in order for this to work at optimal levels, you need additional indicators and/or knowledge that I am not able to give you. However, after you spend some time with this "method," you will come to realize exactly what those indicators should measure and what information they need to tell you, in order to optimize this method into a trading strategy. If you get really good, then you won't need any indicators at all, but that will require that you spend a lot of time, working this methodology.

This is Trading 101 and it does not get much more simple than this for the Newbie. This method, if used correctly and if studied long enough, can teach you about Timing, Direction and Magnitude and give you some leads on how to start thinking outside the box on price behavior. Probability and Money Management Modeling, are different components and should be learned separately.

Basic charts needed:


  • Monthly
  • Weekly
  • Daily
  • 4 Hour
  • 1 Hour
  • 30 Minute
  • 15 Minute
  • 5 Minute
  • 1 Minute

Chart type:


  • Candle Stick

Optimal trade logic: (very rare)

Long if;
Monthly Candle = Green
Weekly Candle = Green
Daily Candle = Green
4 Hour Candle = Green
1 Hour Candle = Green
30 Minute Candle = Green
15 Minute Candle = Green
5 minute Candle = Green
and if;
Green line crosses Red line
Short if;
Monthly Candle = Red
Weekly Candle = Red
Daily Candle = Red
4 Hour Candle = Red
1 Hour Candle = Red
30 Minute Candle = Red
15 Minute Candle = Red
5 minute Candle = Red
and if;
Red line crosses Green line
General trade logic: (high frequency - skills development)

Long if;
Green line crosses Red line
Short if;
Red line crosses Green line
NOTES: (you need to read each one very carefully)

*** Set your trading platform to execute all market orders with a 5 pip Stop. Exit net positive positions when opposing trade logic triggers opposing order - before - position turns net negative. (assume the spread as lost capital and the cost of doing business)

*** At the outset, it should be easy to see that rarely will the market generate Trade Logic conditions that are always optimal and that conform to the first set of rules above. However, plenty of entries will existed under the General category of trade logic. The not so obvious lesson here, is that the General trade logic will net you the most significant education (in the shortest period of time) in Price Behavior and the absolute need for proper Money Management in any form of trading. Remember, this is Trading 101. If you learn the lessons well in real-time, you will learn a lot about how to properly enter the market and how to properly exit the market.

*** To learn the lesson well, stick to the M1 chart for all entries and exists. The M1 Price Behavior will burn into your visual memory - that's good. Eventually, you will learn that Price "Behaves" the exact same way in all time-frames and that will make it abundantly easier for you to learn how to enter and exist on larger charts. The M1, is a very fast Teacher and having the added pressure of trying to exit every position with net positive gains, will accelerate the lesson even further. It will focus your mind on the most efficient reversal and continuation patterns that the market provides on a routine basis.

*** This is a manual trading methodology and a physically intensive process - do not allow outside distractions in your trading office. Your mental focus, will determine your level of success and/or failure. Don't allow disruptions, or you will miss the point of the entire exercise. Always remained focused on M1 and your Fast -vs- Slow lines.

*** Google the terms: MFE and MAE as they relate to trading. For each trade, note the respective MFE/MAE in absolute value and in Ratio form, where you divide MFE by MAE to obtain the ratio. The smaller the ratio, the more your skills are improving and the more you are learning about Real Magnitude. Keep a log of this data - Excel is preferable as you can do analysis on the data later.

*** This process is for your learning and skills development. This is to show you that you can consistently net profits in the currency markets -IF- you learn the lessons that Magnitude has to teach. The concept of Magnitude will become readily apparent to you, as you progress through this process.

*** Keep in mind that this is NOT an optimized Trading System and your results will NOT therefore, be optimal. Optimal "conditions" for the "trade logic" were given, to help you better understand the need for Directional synergy in higher time-frames, as you develop your own Trading System down the road. (very important)

*** This is NOT a "grail" methodology. However, with the proper skills added, one can turn this method into a profitable Trading System - with a lot of work, creative thinking and outside the box solutions. None of which can be given to you through a post on the internet!

*** The actual Trading System employing a more advanced version of this methodology (one of three different trading systems that I have developed), does not use a Stop. The 5 pip stop that you see above is psychological training tool for you. Your brain needs to understand that if you trade the correct currency pair, during the right part of its Directional Life-Cycle, your winners will outweigh your losers, nearly all the time. When I run this particular system, I use multiple-pairs with unique characteristics in relation to each other, so I don''t need a Stop. This "method" is NOT that advanced Trading System, so use the Stop level as stated above.

You can and will (if you stick with it) learn a lot not only about yourself as a trader, but about the daily life-cycle of your currency pair. If I were a new trader, I would spend quite a considerable number of hours in front of my computer screen each day using this set-up, until I could predict the M1 Price Behavior of my currency pair at will.

*** This trading "methodology" DOES NOT tell you where price is going for the next billion number of pips, nor does it need to. This methodology will teach you one of the most important lessons that any new trader can learn about currency pair trading: Why Magnitude is so important to consistently being profitable. The reason this is such a good tool for learning, is because every major Bull or Bear run, starts with M1.
----------------------------------------------------

I call this method, Trade Combat Maneuvering (similar to Aerial Combat Maneuvering), where you learn to keep your adversary in front of you at all times. You might not understand that terminology right now, but after many hours engaged with the market this way - you will.

Welcome to Tactical Combat Trader School. You will teach yourself how to push your tactical trading skills to the limit. You will teach yourself how to fight and how to survive. You will teach yourself how to fight and how to win.

If you graduate, you get to join the 65th Aggressor Squadron, where harassing other traders in the market is considered sport. ;)

Let me know if you need some help in setting up your HUD (trading screen). Remember, the hard-deck for this training HOP is 5 pips. No more, and no less. Let the trade logic be your Limit for now, until you acquire more combat data in the form of MFE/MAE absolute and ratio performance.

In a more advanced step, you will take the MAE/MFE data and start comparing that to the increasing uniformity in the charts with the optimal trade logic rules. To optimize performance, you will need to take a more advanced step and go inside the MFE/MAE data to locate the point at which that ratio begins to get smaller, as you use more Directional synergy in the charts of the optimal trade logic rules.

The goal is to work your way towards finding the optimal Directional synergy in the charts, by using MFE/MAE historical data. This is as advanced as I will be able to take the discussion about how to trade using only two MA's. The rest belongs to my system and I'm not giving that away. However, with some outside the box thinking, you can build your own.

Now, get those charts and MAs set up properly! Newbies need to learn how to survive - first. Your best offense, is a better defense. And, that is what this will teach you. No defense - no long term success. That's the nature of this business. You need Dog Fighting skills.

Did it work?
 

UMOFX IB

Junior member
45 0
I also used to trade on these MA crossover strategies and there are many of them with slight modification. The problem with these strategies is to catch the real crossover as there will be many fakeouts and they just led us to a difficult situation. In my opinion these crossover strategies work well on trending pairs.
 
 
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