Lord Anton Kreil

I spoke to Anton a few months ago about his mentoring program.

He talked to me on the phone for almost an hour, a very nice chat I must admit.
At the time he told me that his contacts in China were informing him that everybody was ditching iphones for samsung hence he was ready to be short $AAPL.
Well he was spot on as we all know AAPL recent price action.

My opinion is that the guy obviously knows his stuff but as in his example the edge IBs and HFs have is information (the most valuable commodity I know of!!). They talk to company CEOs, have teams of researchers and analysts who works 15hrs a day for traders.
Once you are out on your own it's just you, no info, no research and no analysis. You could obviously do it on your own but you clearly don't have the resources and if you were a trader you are not an analyst now!

I remember reading an interesting article on the FT saying that many if not most of the traders that left IBs or HFs to open their own funds were struggling for the above reasons.

Order flow is not an advantage any more imho as even that is public now even if subject to manipulation.

Anton was working as a trader but doing a lot on MM that is a different story from proprietary trading. He admitted going out with clients a lot and that means he was getting money from commissions more than his trading activity.
He was in charge of IPOs and so on. All activities that differ from proprietary trading.

Anyway for his mentoring program he wants 5-6 grand and all I was told I was given was a few spreadsheets, a couple of PDFs and him monitoring my positions so I said no thanks!

When I read mentoring program I was expecting to sit with him and see him trading and learn how to behave is certain situations. If not every day at least sometimes.
So there is not much one to one interaction apart from chat messaging and few phone calls.

My view is that trading is all about experience. Everybody is able to compare few indicators and ratios and pick a stock or the other but to be a trader you need to learn how markets behave and you do this just by watching it day in and day out constantly.

Now, about why he teaches instead of trading that's a good point. He is obviously after money and a smart guy so I think he pursues any viable way to make it. He seems to have worked pretty hard on the road to gain exposure and a reputation so he clearly saw an opportunity here and I wouldn't blame him.
I can also imagine that trading becomes a mechanical and repetitive thing after years of doing it and especially if you are sitting at home on your own I could be boring.
He also has a massive ego and he likes showing people that he knows more than you so teaching makes him happy I guess.
My concern is that from a guy who worked for 15 yrs as a trader at IBs and claims still making a lot of money trading I would expect him to be sitting in a luxury office in Mayfair while if you look at his recent videos, his office looks more like my bedroom when I was at uni!!!!!!

Bottom line is that he clearly knows what he is talking about than if his courses and program are worth doing I can't tell.
 
I'll break it down for you. This is how the Anton Kreil scheme works:
Anton lures in young traders promising them that they could be recruited by hedge funds.
The naive young men who signed up for his "institute" try to give their best performance.
He in turn copies all their best trades and lists them in newsletters and sells it to other people. Or he simply copies their trades and makes a profit.
Anton is one of those traders who had to sit and monitor bank trades, which means he has no real freaking clue about trading.

how is this different from every other large trading group or investment bank ?...hahahahaha :p
 
I spoke to Anton a few months ago about his mentoring program.


When I read mentoring program I was expecting to sit with him and see him trading and learn how to behave is certain situations. If not every day at least sometimes.
So there is not much one to one interaction apart from chat messaging and few phone calls.

My view is that trading is all about experience. Everybody is able to compare few indicators and ratios and pick a stock or the other but to be a trader you need to learn how markets behave and you do this just by watching it day in and day out constantly.

He also has a massive ego and he likes showing people that he knows more than you so teaching makes him happy I guess.
My concern is that from a guy who worked for 15 yrs as a trader at IBs and claims still making a lot of money trading I would expect him to be sitting in a luxury office in Mayfair while if you look at his recent videos, his office looks more like my bedroom when I was at uni!!!!!!

Bottom line is that he clearly knows what he is talking about than if his courses and program are worth doing I can't tell.

15 years?
He joined GS at 21ish and "quit" to go travelling at 28ish.
Hardly 15 years.
 
Hello everybody. I read the whole post and I appreciated your feedbacks.
I was actually thinking to get his 3000$ course or ask him for some mentorship.
As many, I thought that asking for 3000$ for a basic training knowledge made me think that even if he worked for good companies he still needs to make money from teaching more than from trading.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I will definitely stay away from his company.
 
Hello everybody. I read the whole post and I appreciated your feedbacks.
I was actually thinking to get his 3000$ course or ask him for some mentorship.
As many, I thought that asking for 3000$ for a basic training knowledge made me think that even if he worked for good companies he still needs to make money from teaching more than from trading.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I will definitely stay away from his company.

Zen4X,

I wouldn't dismiss it that way.
it all depends on what you look for.
As said, Anton surely knows his job but he'll teach you the right approach to trading. he won't teach you how to make money because that's depends on you, your hard work, your talent, your skills.
His course tells you about risk management and Macro-Economic Top-Down Systematic Asset Selection.
you can chose to go this way or opt for a bottom up, or technical systems.
A trader must keep learning, discovering, implementing every day.

You need to learn from the experts and from your mistakes. Then if you want to buy a 30 quid book or a 3 grand course to learn from, it's entirely up to you depending on your budget, timescale, knowledge and so on.
 
Zen4X,

I wouldn't dismiss it that way.
it all depends on what you look for.
As said, Anton surely knows his job but he'll teach you the right approach to trading. he won't teach you how to make money because that's depends on you, your hard work, your talent, your skills.
His course tells you about risk management and Macro-Economic Top-Down Systematic Asset Selection.
you can chose to go this way or opt for a bottom up, or technical systems.
A trader must keep learning, discovering, implementing every day.
.
When I watched his presentation at Cass program I thought he was a real trader and not a fake guru. Also I got a reply from him, since I required a pre-coaching session to have some tips from him, but it seems that he cannot help unless I pay for the full mentoring programme which should cost around 5-6k.

At the moment due my budget limitation I will keep backtesting with a testing platform and I will apply my top down analysis. Let's see if in 6 months I can find the money and time to trade full time with him.
 
Just wondering, is it now possible to achieve any success in life/business/trading WITHOUT a mentor? :)
 
Just wondering, is it now possible to achieve any success in life/business/trading WITHOUT a mentor? :)

I think in trading it's about you and nobody else. You will develop your own view of the market. They can teach, but it's your unique way of thinking of work on information that will make you successful. Mentor probably can help in term of getting on track, but I do not think more than that.

I spoke with Anton for a consultancy on Skype and I can say that is really expensive. He might have worked for good companies, but if those people still charge this money, from my view is not for passion, they do not make much from the market as traders. It's worth that you buy a trading simulator and trade and develop the consistency by yourself. That's my 50 cents.
 
I think in trading it's about you and nobody else. You will develop your own view of the market. They can teach, but it's your unique way of thinking of work on information that will make you successful. Mentor probably can help in term of getting on track, but I do not think more than that.

I spoke with Anton for a consultancy on Skype and I can say that is really expensive. He might have worked for good companies, but if those people still charge this money, from my view is not for passion, they do not make much from the market as traders. It's worth that you buy a trading simulator and trade and develop the consistency by yourself. That's my 50 cents.

I think he wants £5k a pop because he wants the company to pay for it. ie. He wants UBS to ask him to give classes. That kind of stuff.
 
I think he wants £5k a pop because he wants the company to pay for it. ie. He wants UBS to ask him to give classes. That kind of stuff.
Would you excuse me but I did not understand. As far as I know he is selling a course through his company, The Institute of Trading and Portfolio Management. The course can cost from 1500$, online material that lasts for a month or 3000$ that lasts for life. For the coaching I did not ask what is the price. I just asked him to book his time for a general understanding and he asked me for money quite a lot only for a chat.

Regards.
 
Hi All,

A. Anton Kreil ITPM Course

I have bought AK course for USD1500 2months ago, due to limited financial resources, after paying high Uni fees as well as not getting a job. End of the day, I think for the Uni fees that I have paid USD1,500 (equi to £1,000) would not hurt much, if I can learn something.

After the Video, I felt apart from the correct approach he teach (Top Down, Bottom Up, Risk Management, Watch List)... this approach is all fine and well.

The next thing, I am a bit concerned:
1. Signing up with ITPM with Saxo (this concern me, ie Conflict of Interest that AK pitch). Essentially, every trade that I do, I will contribute a commission to AK, as ITPM essentially becomes "Introductory Broker"???
2. Apart from the right approach, the trades that gears us into the Trading Account is CFD trading, using leverage. This also mean that the wider our Pairs Trading, the more AK will get out from the Institute Traders

From the above, how are we considering the AK course v "conflict of interest"???

B. Lex Van Dam Trading Academy

If you now compare (A) and (B), you will now see that if we learn the right stuff from Lex, Lex is not benefiting from any Trading Commission... because Lex is only selling his course, and that's the end of the story, nothing more...

At this moment, I need to hear from you guys of your thoughts to give some opinion of the situations and scenario.

Appreciate your feedback...
 
Hi All,

A. Anton Kreil ITPM Course

I have bought AK course for USD1500 2months ago, due to limited financial resources, after paying high Uni fees as well as not getting a job. End of the day, I think for the Uni fees that I have paid USD1,500 (equi to £1,000) would not hurt much, if I can learn something.

After the Video, I felt apart from the correct approach he teach (Top Down, Bottom Up, Risk Management, Watch List)... this approach is all fine and well.

The next thing, I am a bit concerned:
1. Signing up with ITPM with Saxo (this concern me, ie Conflict of Interest that AK pitch). Essentially, every trade that I do, I will contribute a commission to AK, as ITPM essentially becomes "Introductory Broker"???
2. Apart from the right approach, the trades that gears us into the Trading Account is CFD trading, using leverage. This also mean that the wider our Pairs Trading, the more AK will get out from the Institute Traders

From the above, how are we considering the AK course v "conflict of interest"???

B. Lex Van Dam Trading Academy

If you now compare (A) and (B), you will now see that if we learn the right stuff from Lex, Lex is not benefiting from any Trading Commission... because Lex is only selling his course, and that's the end of the story, nothing more...

At this moment, I need to hear from you guys of your thoughts to give some opinion of the situations and scenario.

Appreciate your feedback...

Heya. I really appreciate your comment.

After my conversation on the phone to be honest I was a bit negative since I felt like Anton was another guru that wanted to make some money to cover his draw downs.

I wanted to ask you if you think that the course essentially covers basic things that somebody that trades for about 3 years would already know.

Risk Management.
Trading techniques. Top Down Analysis, Price Action, Patterns, Fibs, Round Numbers etc.
Intermarket Analysis and Macro: Economic Indicators, GDP, PMI, CFI etc.

I am pretty sure that they trade off the daily timeframe as far I understood.
Could you confirm it ?

All the best for your trading
 
AK Course will cover
ITPM approach - macro view (top down), then micro view (bottom up), risk management, spread trade, giving you spreadsheet, detailed "on the screen" excel training, why retailed traders losing money... trading physcology
The approach is all good stuff, dont get me wrong. The execution may be hard.
The conclusion (from a personal point of view), good teaching for University student (like all of us who wants a way to get into trading (dream jobs for many uni grads - but how many get to the end of road, to be recruited by GS, JPM, DB etc), although AK point is also selling the dream to be recruited by Hedge Fund if you trade through IPTM - this cause me concern from the point of view "conflict of interest" - which is also the main thing he talked about in the course
Because when you signed up as Institute Traders, everytime you trade, "part" of the commission will go to ITPM as well as Saxo (Saxo provide trading infrasture, ITPM becomes introductory broker for the trade).
As well, the only trade mentioned in the course, or signing up as Institute Trader is CFD trading, which in itself carry quite high risk, at the same time, generating quite a lot of brokerage commission for the Institute.

The mentor trading is "remote" basis, so I feel it's not much difference from the online course, the only difference is you get to speak to him "remotely". From this perspective, how much time he will spend on you, is questionable? But, I dont have any evidence, until someone actually been to the "mentor" program can confirm the cost v benefit.

Another program that I am look at is "Amplify Trading", the career course is 4 month full time, cost wise, same with AK personal coaching of £5-6k. Anyone been to Amplify Trading?
 
Another point:

IPTM is an authorised representative of Wallwood (which mean IPTM is not directly authorised by FSA, but authorised via Wallwood by FSA) - online course + remote mentor

Amplify Trading - looks more like a real business on it's own, with proper office, proper course structure etc (£1,200 x 4 month - full time training - 2 month class room + 2 month live)

I am pitching on either ITPM or Amplify Trading, but like to hear from people who actually been to the actual course and provide feedback
 
The execution may be hard.

Another program that I am look at is "Amplify Trading", the career course is 4 month full time, cost wise, same with AK personal coaching of £5-6k. Anyone been to Amplify Trading?

May I ask a question City..the statement about execution. Why would this be hard? Is Anton not covering this?
Secondly Saxo/ITPM...whats stopping you from just using your own broker if you have the tools for the job?

Third, please City, please stop looking at more courses. What has Anton done for you yet? what has Lex done for you? how much time have you given them that warrants more courses..Was it because those course didn't really provide much content? How profitable have these course been for you so far, what makes you think a £5000 course (please dont do it) will be..there is no relationship between amounts spent and potential gain you know. If anything its an inverse relationship
 
The execution is through CFD and Pairs Trading which sounds a bit hardselling, at the same time, generating quite a lot of brokerage commission to ITPM.
 
The execution is through CFD and Pairs Trading which sounds a bit hardselling, at the same time, generating quite a lot of brokerage commission to ITPM.

City, unless you want to get into Anton's mentoring program there is not point in becoming an trader of the institute and using its platform.
Open an account with any broker you consider reliable and with a good reputation.
Also considering the approach that he teaches you could do SB rather than CFDs as execution is not so important.

Was Lex course worth it? I bought his book ages ago and it was totally rubbish!
 
cocoz,

did you take up his mentoring program?
what's your feedback on the mentoring program?
how difference comparing to online courses?
 
cocoz,

did you take up his mentoring program?
what's your feedback on the mentoring program?
how difference comparing to online courses?

Hi Zen,

no, didn't do it.
I spoke to him ages ago and as others in here said he asked me for £5-6k for a three month remote mentoring program meaning he should watch your positions and tell you what you do right or wrong.
No one-to-one sessions so I thought it was overpriced.

Did the online course though that I found valuable
 
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