BeginnerJoe
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Why doesn't he trade like a professional and use the market like an ATM instead of looking for training fees ?
I vaguely remember from somewhere that winners amongst professionals are not as high a percentage as one would imagine. So learning to be a professional is no guarantee for success.
Easier money to be made from "teaching" and then ongoing income from having an affiliate broker. Every trade a 'student' does pays him a few quid.
bbmac
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He was doing free seminars with ETX a while back to get sign up to SB..I went along as I was at a loose end/it was local to me, it's such an exotic name, and I needed a new mouse mat and thought there would be a few obligatory freebies going and if not - I set myself the challenge of nicking one anyway. Like all good trades - i'd planned for the contingency of getting caught in that I would claim I had ' techno-kleptomania.' Anyways I went along and not a mouse mat to be had anywhere if you please, not so much as a cheap biro splendidly emblazened with the ETX logo or for that matter pad with similar such decoration. Anton duly appeared rather shabbily dressed and gave a 1hr talk full of truisms, sweeping statements and platitudes aimed at not even newbies - more ameba level. His presentation styl;e matched his satire and it was lazily delivered (probably the 454th he'd done that week.) Disappointed at my futile journey across the streets paved with gold that is London town - I eyed a solitary mouse mat in the far corner of the room with a fecthing design not dissimilar to that I have described above - but to no avail - could I get to that yonder side of said room without being entirely conspicous of thought and intent ? - Could I buffalo ! This made me even more angry at the wasted journey so I unlocked my shopping trolley that I had hitched and padlocked in reception, and left with my goal unfulfilled and my dreams shattered by the whole experience ! As I was leaving I could hear the Anton's close - promises of riches beyond youyr wildest imaginings andI have to admit the pang of hope almost tripped me and turned me 180degrees to go back but I tripped on an empty packet of capstan full strength coming out of the lift - which bought me to my senses quick sharp.
G/L
G/L
Sounds like you need to find yourself a hobby
C
cablemonster
I have got to admit the case of Anton is a bizzarre one. If I recall correctly he has golman sachs, lehman and jp morgan on his CV. It really is strange to pitch to newbies in this way. What I have learnt from some of my aquaintances who are instituional traders is that the information and tools they have at their disposal give them a considerable edge that cannot be used outside of the bank. Lets say they trade a commodity spread and have access to specific relevant flow order info, zero transaction costs you can see how they have a big edge. Also a risk manager who will remove emotion when you are unable to. I guess remove these tools and a former bank trader may struggle on the outside dunno its just bizarre like I said.
the hare
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Perhaps he's doing it 4 d lulz ? I bet he has right laugh.
wallstreetwarrior87
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In reality, they only have a tiny edge, which is of no benefit to a private trader.
Its the size they deal in that makes it worthwhile.
The term professional means nothing:
Lower league football pros - £300 per week
Premier league £100,000.
Local golf pro - £22,000 per year
Tiger Woods - $10Mln
Not many of them are Tiger Woods or Fernando Torres.
C
cablemonster
that doesn't tally with my homework on institutional traders. one commodity trader I regularly speak to (works for large IB) say they focus on markets (Real or synthetic) where they have the greatest edge. 2 straight losing weeks and their card is already marked, back onto paper trading and increased supervision.
wallstreetwarrior87
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But does this edge still exist if they were trading their own account from home/in private?
For example;
At his/her IB a 2% return on their £1m play nets them £20,000, but would he/she be able to do this in private? Is the same edge worthwhile on a £10k account? Taking their cut into account. In relative terms its a small edge, but financially worthwhile, hence these guys stay at the IBs because they would not be able to do this in private, as they dont have the facilities to do so.
Just something to think about?
At the end of the day, if these guys are so good that they get marked after 2 weeks, why would they stay there once they knew what they were doing? Logic says its because their financial cut from the edge (even a tiny edge) they have (at an IB) is greater than they can generate on their own in private.
Comparing institution to private is very chalk and cheese.
C
cablemonster
in this case it wouldn't be as the order flow information which is shared interbank is not accessible to the public.
yes I concur. the IB's hire in young, qualified, intelligent team players who are green. Train them up, put them into am experienced small team. Team has access to fundamental and technical analysts. Team has access to order flow. i.e. middle eastern chap calls up looking to hedge a **** load of something. Team has risk manager who keeps everyone in check, emotions don't take over. team focuses on non directional trades where they have the best edge.
if said trader leaves he is on his todd. his chances of success are clearly much higher due to his training but he still has to work his edge without the order flow info and manage his own risk.
And let's not forget. Your mate at bank x gets 120k a year whether his 'trading' makes money or not.
Are you sure this is a bank?
I've never known an investment bank put a single person on "sim".
All I've ever seen (in the 3 top tier banks i've worked at) were desks with people, then desks with empty chairs.
My last place favoured approach was if you went down more than 3%, you were simply met by the trading floor doors (if you took a toilet break) by HR and legal and told that your stuff would be couriered home.
C
cablemonster
Yeah its a US IB. I am trying to recall the conversation where we discussed this he def said you were taken off live trading if you lost for 2 consecutive weeks. I think I then asked what happens then and he said he doesnt know as it has never happened to him. As for being put on SIM I cant recall for definite.
bbmac
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I've been to a few of these broker presentations. You know what it's like you open an a/c and no sooner than done you're getting a call from some spotty faced youth who calls himself a dealer ! A dealer !? Well this particular time the phone rang and Id just settled down with a John Grisham and a 1/4 of werthers originals so I wasn't best pleased...He said it's Kent from - well let's leave that out to spare any blushes..' Kent ! ' I said that's not a name - it's a cricket team...anyways he said is that bbmac ? I said well if it isn't this thermal body vest's a remarkably good fit ...He continued - 'We'd like to invite you to our offices for a presentation yada yadda...on Tuesday at 6pm. Well I was quite pushed busy wise that week as Mr Shufflebottom from Flat 9 was going thru to Little Wellinghampton to see his elderly aunt - she has a skin complaint and has to sit in a darkened room eating peanuts for 3mths so she's a little depressed and I said I'd go with him and read her the short story from this week's People's Friend via torch light. I thought if he gets a jiggle on we could be back in time. He has changed his Vauxhall for a Kia - on account of a more favourable cubic capacity so he had plenty of room. So, I said I'd be there and rang off. (Between you and I I think Mr Shufflebottom's got designs on her Royal Doulton China and nest of 3 tables - but I keep well buttoned.) Tuesday duly came and after spending 1hr on British rail walking the length of bredth of the train with a paper bag with a cold sausage and a paper cup of coffee in it I arrived and started mingling. I was with a few others waiting for said presentation to start making small talk...I was stood next to a 'robust' looking chap who introduced himself as Bob and said he'd been high up in sewage for 20 years - I thought that's lucky ! I noticed he had a limp on his left side as he excused himself to use the 'gents.' When he came back he made a beeline and sat next to me - I don't know what he'd been doing in there but there was a terrible whiff of pear drops hanging around all thru the presentation.
Next thing I knew the music started the lights dimmed and a screen dropped out of the ceiling - I thought well this is exciting...I think it was 'Fanfare for the Common man' by Emmerson Lake and Palmer and it seemed a little over done for the wretched creature that sidled in 20 minutes late amusing himself with one of those laser pens they have at presentations as if it was the 1st time he'd seen one. He proceeded to try and impress us with his so called oscillators and pinbars -but I see the world for what it is after 10 years with cmc ! He continued dribbling on for the next 30 mins or so and by this stage I was eyeing the finger buffet in the corner. 'Any question's ' he asked at the end of a presentation so dull even the newbies had stopped taking notes and the mice had long since thrown themselves on the traps. ' Yes ' I said - 'is that salmon paste organic ' He looked at his screen - I think he thought I was talking aboiut some new fangled oscimawhatsit or something...'Err yes I think so 'he answered - displaying all the conviction of a barron couple at the foster clinic being shown 3 ginger headed twins. 'Any other questions' he enquired - 'Are those custards or a Merange ' a voice from the back uttered...no you're not wrong he replied - they are custards...From this I concluded that he was either Scottish of birth and had it well hidden or had lost interest himself by this stage. Well what can you expect ?
A few stayed behind at the end to partake - me included and we were ushered nay herded to the outside patio area 'for the sake of the smokers.' They had one of those patio heaters there and I swear I suffered 3rd degree burns to the left side of my face whilst the right side stayed at a sturdy -2 degrees for the 30mins we were out there. Bob was still hanging around and made for me again - 'Do you mind if I smoke' he said ' Not a bit of it' I said and continued 'but If I come down with bronchitus - will you stump up for the bed jacket' - which I think hit home as his yellow tipped fingers placed the offending stick back in his top pocket aside 3 pens one of which had a chewed end. I was surprised that there was no big close -Gollum had long since sidled back to middle earth this time without a musical relish- probably to some kind of oxygen tent - a sickly looking girl who really should make more of an effort to get more fresh air handed us a 'brochure pack' as she called it on the way out. I asked her if they were all the same price or did they just vary in amount and this seemed to fox her - she thought for a while and said that they were 'compriamentary' which I took to be complimentary / free ! I was surprised to notice on the way out through recpetion that they had a piece of modern art proudly displayed on the recptionist's desk - entitled ' Despair ' (there's rich I thought.) I thought it had a look of Stanley Matthews about it - but I kept mum. As I was lkeaving I could hear Bob telling another victim he was stalking that he had holidayed in Marbella and that there were miles of golden beaches - I thought that's strange because last time I was there it was all shale broken glass, and dog dirt...but I let it pass and made for the train station, clutching my brochure pack.
Next thing I knew the music started the lights dimmed and a screen dropped out of the ceiling - I thought well this is exciting...I think it was 'Fanfare for the Common man' by Emmerson Lake and Palmer and it seemed a little over done for the wretched creature that sidled in 20 minutes late amusing himself with one of those laser pens they have at presentations as if it was the 1st time he'd seen one. He proceeded to try and impress us with his so called oscillators and pinbars -but I see the world for what it is after 10 years with cmc ! He continued dribbling on for the next 30 mins or so and by this stage I was eyeing the finger buffet in the corner. 'Any question's ' he asked at the end of a presentation so dull even the newbies had stopped taking notes and the mice had long since thrown themselves on the traps. ' Yes ' I said - 'is that salmon paste organic ' He looked at his screen - I think he thought I was talking aboiut some new fangled oscimawhatsit or something...'Err yes I think so 'he answered - displaying all the conviction of a barron couple at the foster clinic being shown 3 ginger headed twins. 'Any other questions' he enquired - 'Are those custards or a Merange ' a voice from the back uttered...no you're not wrong he replied - they are custards...From this I concluded that he was either Scottish of birth and had it well hidden or had lost interest himself by this stage. Well what can you expect ?
A few stayed behind at the end to partake - me included and we were ushered nay herded to the outside patio area 'for the sake of the smokers.' They had one of those patio heaters there and I swear I suffered 3rd degree burns to the left side of my face whilst the right side stayed at a sturdy -2 degrees for the 30mins we were out there. Bob was still hanging around and made for me again - 'Do you mind if I smoke' he said ' Not a bit of it' I said and continued 'but If I come down with bronchitus - will you stump up for the bed jacket' - which I think hit home as his yellow tipped fingers placed the offending stick back in his top pocket aside 3 pens one of which had a chewed end. I was surprised that there was no big close -Gollum had long since sidled back to middle earth this time without a musical relish- probably to some kind of oxygen tent - a sickly looking girl who really should make more of an effort to get more fresh air handed us a 'brochure pack' as she called it on the way out. I asked her if they were all the same price or did they just vary in amount and this seemed to fox her - she thought for a while and said that they were 'compriamentary' which I took to be complimentary / free ! I was surprised to notice on the way out through recpetion that they had a piece of modern art proudly displayed on the recptionist's desk - entitled ' Despair ' (there's rich I thought.) I thought it had a look of Stanley Matthews about it - but I kept mum. As I was lkeaving I could hear Bob telling another victim he was stalking that he had holidayed in Marbella and that there were miles of golden beaches - I thought that's strange because last time I was there it was all shale broken glass, and dog dirt...but I let it pass and made for the train station, clutching my brochure pack.
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barjon
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Ah! But I thought I heard a sharp intake of breath when he touched on osma divergence - now I know where you got it from 😆
