Is there a better way forward ?

Pat494

Legendary member
13,872 1,411
As the title suggests I was thinking there just must be a better way forward in the Capitalism v Socialism argument. I have been reading posts on another forum which is dominated by right wing US views.

They are seriously suggesting a no minimum wage scenario. Let the poor live out of the garbage type of arguments. Whatever happened to decency to others ? But no they resent paying tax to even afford a benefit system.

I would criticise Socialism for not being competitive in a free market place but surely this is slavery by another means. Many have to have 2 jobs just to pay the basic bills !! Is this a major reason for the recent rise of the vicious jihadi movement ?

Any ideas ?
 

trendie

Legendary member
6,233 1,007
capitalism is a perfectly viable principle.
as is socialism.

unfortunately, any philosophical system is doomed as there are imperfect human beings involved.

societies comprising large numbers introduce complexity and nuances.
so, instead of a simple use of principles, those principles become compromised.

some people can't cope with nuances, and prefer black and white.
hence, the willingness to abdicate humanity in favour of easy to understand/follow axioms, and thus the belief that people should "live out of garbage" on the one hand, or taxing the rich out of existence, on the other.

this, sadly, is no different to religions, where a brutal, one-dimensional simplicity is favoured over multi-faceted realism.

I think understanding the individual human mind via psychology, and understanding group behaviour via sociology could help us understand why people are incapable of functioning maximally.

is there a better way forward? becoming assimilated into the Borg collective?
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,057 2,688
capitalism is a perfectly viable principle.
as is socialism.

unfortunately, any philosophical system is doomed as there are imperfect human beings involved.

societies comprising large numbers introduce complexity and nuances.
so, instead of a simple use of principles, those principles become compromised.

some people can't cope with nuances, and prefer black and white.
hence, the willingness to abdicate humanity in favour of easy to understand/follow axioms, and thus the belief that people should "live out of garbage" on the one hand, or taxing the rich out of existence, on the other.

this, sadly, is no different to religions, where a brutal, one-dimensional simplicity is favoured over multi-faceted realism.

I think understanding the individual human mind via psychology, and understanding group behaviour via sociology could help us understand why people are incapable of functioning maximally.

is there a better way forward? becoming assimilated into the Borg collective?


Very good write up and agree totally.


Capitalism can't handle slow down. Needs to grow year on year. Is this ever possible? Hell bent on consumption.

Socialism can't handle growth. Distribution of the cake to those more deserving. Need to make distinction between equality and equitable distribution of income. More appropriate as a distribution mechanism when there is little and rationalisation is required.

Twin sides of the same coin imo.

Take a pick :whistling
 

jotekfinance

Active member
144 9
Agree with Trendie. One of the best systems I can think of is a Socialist Democracy, which is government control over capitalism. But thats just me :)
 

0007

Senior member
2,307 607
Agree with Trendie. One of the best systems I can think of is a Socialist Democracy, which is government control over capitalism. But thats just me :)

Isn't that what we have had with the UK Labour party since 1945? Hasn't appealed to me very much.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,872 1,411
I can't recall a truly libertarian system yet. That is more political than the economic situation I suggested, of - how does socialism stack up against capitalism.

The only socialist principled company that I am aware of is The Co-op. It was doing alrightish until some idiot let another idiot loose at the highest level. About 100 years work down the drain.

The mean capitalist system in the US makes me glad I am not poor and there.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,872 1,411
Would making every employee a share holder solve the problem ?
An incentive for the employees and a fairer system of sharing the profits with the other share holders.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,732 2,497
Dream on!:LOL: Second paragraph, first sentence...didn't take long for it to fall apart (you little leg puller you:))
I don't see why it falls apart. You have to remember that self interested people would automatically be excluded, or exclude themselves from any group of like minded co-operators.
 

kimo'sabby

Experienced member
1,623 287
I don't see why it falls apart. You have to remember that self interested people would automatically be excluded, or exclude themselves from any group of like minded co-operators.

In which way would the non-cooperators be excluded? By imposing sanctions maybe?
 

kimo'sabby

Experienced member
1,623 287
As the title suggests I was thinking there just must be a better way forward in the Capitalism v Socialism argument. I have been reading posts on another forum which is dominated by right wing US views.

They are seriously suggesting a no minimum wage scenario. Let the poor live out of the garbage type of arguments. Whatever happened to decency to others ? But no they resent paying tax to even afford a benefit system.

I would criticise Socialism for not being competitive in a free market place but surely this is slavery by another means. Many have to have 2 jobs just to pay the basic bills !! Is this a major reason for the recent rise of the vicious jihadi movement ?

Any ideas ?

The sombre reality is that there is no perfect solution, and the best way forward for any group of people is to understand this.

An extra terrestrial utopia would be far easier to imagine for the sake of mankind than any earth bound solution or compromise.

World, or earth peace, is obviously untenable as it stands, and nothing is going to change that situation.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,057 2,688
The sombre reality is that there is no perfect solution, and the best way forward for any group of people is to understand this.

An extra terrestrial utopia would be far easier to imagine for the sake of mankind than any earth bound solution or compromise.

World, or earth peace, is obviously untenable as it stands, and nothing is going to change that situation.
One could try locking such humanoids in isolation cells to prevent them harming other individuals.

One could try separating such humanoids in distant places such as Lapland and Aussie land so they are unable to reach blows with each other.

One could just forget about it all and just send them all to Australia and leave-em on a big island.

We could take this one step further and send them into orbit or another planet.

We could on the other hand bring back gladiators and let such individuals actually fight each other on the world stage.

We could really be creative about this and charge people to watch and the capitalist could make money and give it to the socialists to distribute equally.

Man who really is not much if nothing at all could do a lot of things to change the situation.


Think BIG!

 

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