is forex 'manipulated'

.....Some real manipulation does occur though by the large banks. They know where retail herd stops are. It's not had to guess even if they don't see all the orders. The banks all talk to each other and get a feel where each other needs to send the price. They then can grab all the stops before moving the price. .....Peter
SO what exactly is the purpose of manipulation?.....so you think that we (retail clients) are important in this process of manipulation?
So are we saying that manipulation is there to get the retail clients?.....surely not?.....this does not make sense!.....we are nothing!

Am not sure if we even understand what manipulation is yet or even if it exist and where it is before we even speculate why it is there and for what purpose?
You noted that retail clients have stops but if we could see manipulation in the charts then we could get out of the way.....could we not?.....now, if we did that, does that mean there will be no more manipulation thereafter?
 
SO what exactly is the purpose of manipulation?

Money. Take from the little guy for the benefit of the big guy.

.....so you think that we (retail clients) are important in this process of manipulation?
So are we saying that manipulation is there to get the retail clients?.....surely not?.....this does not make sense!.....we are nothing!

Retail clients are the fish in the barrel. Remember 95% lose.
Trading is a game rigged to make small investors lose. Traders who don't understand that can never be profitable because they think the markets are a level playing field.

Am not sure if we even understand what manipulation is yet or even if it exist and where it is before we even speculate why it is there and for what purpose?
You noted that retail clients have stops but if we could see manipulation in the charts then we could get out of the way.....could we not?.....now, if we did that, does that mean there will be no more manipulation thereafter?

Getting out of the way means not trading like the herd and not placing stops where everyone else is placing them.

Peter
 
we are nothing!

Kindly go inform the government we are nothing and stop taking money from us. Where did you imagine the banks shiny tall buildings come from and where the government get their nukes from ?

Before you say only a small number of people gamble, find out where yours and other people's pension money is at. It's certainly isn't stuffed in a mattress somewhere.
 
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Manipulation would imply that there is no order in the markets, that a few large players can and do adjust the price to their advantage.

Markets are not manipulated in that way. The price moves according to the orders and there are many times during the day where the large players can absorb these orders. causing a sudden move in the markets that appears unexplained.
 
wackypete2 said:
Money. Take from the little guy for the benefit of the big guy.
ok, so how exactly is this done? can you or anyone illustrate this "manipulation" on a chart?
When you say "big guy", do you mean one company or a combination of them all?

wackypete2 said:
Retail clients are the fish in the barrel. Remember 95% lose.
Trading is a game rigged to make small investors lose. Traders who don't understand that can never be profitable because they think the markets are a level playing field.
Well, is it not the case where 95% lose because they don't know what they are up against as the other 5% knows what they are up against?
"rigged".....can you or anyone show this on a chart?
Well, the markets is free for all if they can, is that not correct?

wackypete2 said:
Getting out of the way means not trading like the herd and not placing stops where everyone else is placing them.
.....or one can take the opposite side to benefit.....if this "manipulation" can be seen.....agree?
But there is more than this is it not?
 
Manipulated? Yes, of course. Institutional players with client orders to execute generate commissions by having client orders triggered. While even a central bank has a tough time maintaining its chosen line against the ebb and flow of the entire market, it doesn’t take that much coordinated effort to swish the levels back and forth in the lower volume parts of the trading day. While there may not be any auditable complicity between institutions there is a basic ‘understanding’, a quid pro quo, which will see levels tipped, typically on a regional basis, one way and then, the other.

Take a look at any major pair an hour before and after each hub setting up shop for the day, especially around Europe and UK opens. The incoming and outgoing levels from these periods are rarely significant to the ranges within. It’s always going to be easy to catch the mugs on the ‘open’ and FX provides more than one ‘open’ each 24 hours.

Apart from intuitional commissions based manipulation and central bank manipulations, there is also the longer term influence which works as much by inaction as action. Not buying is equivalent to selling in some circumstances and the resultant pullback offers opportunities to buy at a value level. This isn’t just currencies; all markets are manipulated in the same way for the same ends. Which doesn’t mean it’s impossible for retail players to make money, quite the opposite. If you know what the other players are doing, and when, any why you have all the information you need.
 
ok, so how exactly is this done? can you or anyone illustrate this "manipulation" on a chart?
What is happening inside the blue circle? Who is in control here, what are they doing, and why?
.....or one can take the opposite side to benefit.....if this "manipulation" can be seen.....agree?
But there is more than this is it not?
Affirmative to both.
SO what exactly is the purpose of manipulation?.....so you think that we (retail clients) are important in this process of manipulation?
So are we saying that manipulation is there to get the retail clients?.....surely not?.....this does not make sense!.....we are nothing!

Am not sure if we even understand what manipulation is yet or even if it exist and where it is before we even speculate why it is there and for what purpose?
You noted that retail clients have stops but if we could see manipulation in the charts then we could get out of the way.....could we not?.....now, if we did that, does that mean there will be no more manipulation thereafter?

Maybe retail traders are important, but if the bulk of them learned to see manipulation and get out of the way then perhaps the nature of this particular manipulation would change. It is more likely however that where skill is involved there will continue to be strong and weak players, and the manipulations will continue as long as it is worthwhile to do so.

To prove whether it is there in the first place, surely one must have a theory where the market is likely to do something but for manipulation, else how would the difference in the price be spotted without anything to compare? Only when we are aware of something can we look to ascertain its cause. Manipulation is often speculated about by those least equipped* to logically deduce whether it exists and whether it can be used to improve the odds of the individual trader.

How many people see manipulation where I have shown the blue circle? To make a call that entities deliberately intervened with a purpose (manipulation) here, one would have a "norm" in mind where the market "typically" progresses higher from here, and an understanding of what could be achieved by temporarily diverting it from the likely destination. Without knowing this, why would it occur to consider manipulation here? Or perhaps manipulation is a red herring, and what occurred during and immediately after the blue circle was simply a consequence of several independent decisions taken by individuals without a collusive or manipulative purpose? How would you know, and how does knowing benefit your trading?

* - I would take an educated guess that manipulation occurs to aspiring traders after the fact, when they are in need of a reason for their losses or failure to make sufficient progress. It appeals to various forms of human weakness to shift responsibility to an overbearing outside factor (e.g. powerful entrenched interests in the financial markets in conspiracy against the little guy) over which the individual has no control. Are losses the fault of manipulations or the fault of the individual for predictably playing into the hands of the manipulator?

Perhaps if the novice begun with a thorough study of the environment and the predictable mistakes made by most others due to common human weaknesses he would be better prepared to develop his own advantage without becoming part of the food chain.
 

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What is happening inside the blue circle? Who is in control here, what are they doing, and why?

...

How many people see manipulation where I have shown the blue circle? To make a call that entities deliberately intervened with a purpose (manipulation) here, one would have a "norm" in mind where the market "typically" progresses higher from here, and an understanding of what could be achieved by temporarily diverting it from the likely destination. Without knowing this, why would it occur to consider manipulation here? Or perhaps manipulation is a red herring, and what occurred during and immediately after the blue circle was simply a consequence of several independent decisions taken by individuals without a collusive or manipulative purpose? How would you know, and how does knowing benefit your trading?

* - I would take an educated guess that manipulation occurs to aspiring traders after the fact, when they are in need of a reason for their losses or failure to make sufficient progress. It appeals to various forms of human weakness to shift responsibility to an overbearing outside factor (e.g. powerful entrenched interests in the financial markets in conspiracy against the little guy) over which the individual has no control. Are losses the fault of manipulations or the fault of the individual for predictably playing into the hands of the manipulator?

Perhaps if the novice begun with a thorough study of the environment and the predictable mistakes made by most others due to common human weaknesses he would be better prepared to develop his own advantage without becoming part of the food chain.

Interesting post. I didn't see any manipulation there (the blue circle) at the time, in fact I expected it to turn down there, where it did,temporarily. And since on a higher timeframe it had been creeping up, I was also unsurprised to see it move up just prior to the hourly close into that level.

It was as you say, after the fact, after the 9:15 bar when it had moved to 13250, that price had done something 'unexpected' relative to my own model of price. So it is interesting that you pick those bars there. After the break upwards, price moved up until the US open.
 
When there's money involved, everything is manipulated. If I had the money to do it then I certainly would.

Very true. In simulation, I made it big in several well known mutiplayer games. Once I attained a certain size, I controlled the market to the point of dictating prices as a widely recognised authority. Real markets are no different, and I'd play it the same way. The critical factor is your size. Once you attain a certain size, all the little fishes become your lunch, and the market will move to where these lunches are.
 
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is forex manipulated? hmmmmm I always believed it was!! by the big boys banks and corps, but thats the beauty of it, is figuring out what the next step will be! :)
 
lurkerlurker said:
I would take an educated guess that manipulation occurs to aspiring traders after the fact, when they are in need of a reason for their losses or failure to make sufficient progress. It appeals to various forms of human weakness to shift responsibility to an overbearing outside factor (e.g. powerful entrenched interests in the financial markets in conspiracy against the little guy) over which the individual has no control. Are losses the fault of manipulations or the fault of the individual for predictably playing into the hands of the manipulator?

Equally true, that reason can only be true because the person believes it to be right.....it happens when we all reach a level of understanding but not knowing that there is further more to see. The reality is much deeper but the question is does one wish to investigate and ask the right questions?
Was it not Clint Eastwood said in a film "A man has got to know his limitations".....how do we know what we know is true?
To me, limitations are self created illusions.....they don't really exist.....all created in the mind.
Now it is when one sees the depth of ones investigations, one sees something which seems invisible to see, impossible to know.....yet it only make sense when you reach the end.
 
I see a lot of comments on a few threads now about asking the 'right questions', from different posters. Well lets assume that there are right questions that exist, and that these posters have all asked the same right questions.

What are these 'right questions' then Triggerfish (or lurkerlurker if he wishes to participate)? Perhaps these are questions I've already asked, perhaps not. Lets try to progress the thread onto something substantial.
 
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