Is fear of success holding you back??

[Vaco]

googled this after testing kites methods and finding them working followed by me feeling physically sick when entering another trade feeling confident.

I think this applies to a large no of wannabes out there.

lets discuss

The Fear of Success | Psychology Today

 

[donaldduke]

I think the threshold for success (atleast monetary success) is very high these days, given the purchasing power of money is so low.

A million quid isnt what it used to be.

So if there is a psychological block at some success level its going to be very high, at least for me.

 

[elitejets]

Any method that works does not have a 100% success rate.
I think a bigger problem is people who get disheartened after a couple of losses, skip valid setups that meet their criteria, and miss the one that pays for the losses.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

A million quid isnt what it used to be.

As they say:
"A million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.”

(Widely quoted, e.g. in the article linked below)​

Offshore Asset Protection BLOG - Bob Bauman: Millions, Billions, Trillions - You're Talking Real Money


According to Gary Norden ("Technical Analysis and the Active Trader") the reason technical traders are always going on about their psychology is that TA is so unreliable. The majority of retail traders (and especially newer traders) are trading technically. Most trading "education" (especially that pushed by the brokers) is in technical trading. People are encouraged to believe that everything they need to know about the market is contained within the price. They come to believe, and are not discouraged in this belief, that technical analysis has been "proved" scientifically. (He quotes several studies which tend to disprove this). Since the majority of (especially new) traders lose, and since the majority are using TA, and since they have been told that TA "works", they think to themselves "It must be me who's at fault. My psychology is all wrong. I need to get into the zone ..." (or whatever).

As I've said elsewhere, I think he somewhat overstates his case (not all technical traders are alike; not all technical traders use the indicators or particular patterns he is so critical of; etc). Nevertheless it gives one pause for thought.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

thread is now back on topic, off topic posts are deleted or moved here -

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/t2w-feedback/77286-off-topic-posting-issues.html

 

[Technically Fundamental]

I think that article is nonsensical pseudo-scientific hogwash personally. If anything I'm scared to fail and I'm assuming other people feel the same way.

 

[arabianights]

I think that article is nonsensical pseudo-scientific hogwash personally.

As is 99% of pop psychology. Sounds good but it's really drivel fit only for coffee table style bird's magazines

 

[foredog]

As is 99% of pop psychology. Sounds good but it's really drivel fit only for coffee table style bird's magazines

you're only saying that because you're a non-believer and trying to use negative influence to manipulate Aaron into losing all his money taking the other side of you're trades

 

[Vaco]

I think that article is nonsensical pseudo-scientific hogwash personally. If anything I'm scared to fail and I'm assuming other people feel the same way.

My wife completely agrees with you and when applied to trading success its hard to see how you could be holding yourself back even ona subconcious level.

But surely theres a comfort in failure, reduced responsibility, not really addressing the issues causing your failure, holding onto the fantasy of trading for a living with none of the pressure that comes with it been your main source of income.

Lets apply the concept to keeping fit.

we know we should keep fit and that as a result we will be:
- happier
-have more energy
-live longer (maybe)

I'll be brave and use myself as an example,

I exercise sporadically getting into a rythym for a couple of weeks before missing a session due to any no of genuine reasons, but then this leads to missing more sessions and before you know it i've stopped completely.

So why is it I keep failing,

Its not a fear of failure, surely that would stop me trying in the first place,

Have I set myself up mentally to fail. Maybe I expect to fail and take comfort when it occurs.

Maybe I just dont want it bad enough.

Maybe I like the idea of the end result but dont want to/enjoy doing the exercise enough to keep me going.

Lets take it back to trading,

If you were scared of failing you wouldn't try in the first place or maybe your scared of been successgfull and then failing because the drop would hurt more from greater hieghts??

 

[0007]

That article is a load of *@~"^% and as far as I can see is designed to keep psychologists in employment. There may be people around who fear success but they certainly shouldn't be trading or doing anything worthwhile.

What would frighten me if anything, is failure. There's an old military saying - "nothing succeeeds like success" and it's true. How do you feel after you've followed your plan and done a good trade? - frightened? - don't make me laugh!

As far as i can see, this sort of psycho-babble is for inadequate individuals who probably couldn't organise the proverbial party. That's not to say that the psychology of trading is unimportant - it is; my experience is that having got anything like a decent system you then make it work by mastering your personal discipline and psychological flaws. But if you start fearing success then perhaps you do need a Shrink.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

My wife completely agrees with you and when applied to trading success its hard to see how you could be holding yourself back even ona subconcious level.

But surely theres a comfort in failure, reduced responsibility, not really addressing the issues causing your failure, holding onto the fantasy of trading for a living with none of the pressure that comes with it been your main source of income.

Lets apply the concept to keeping fit.

we know we should keep fit and that as a result we will be:
- happier
-have more energy
-live longer (maybe)

I'll be brave and use myself as an example,

I exercise sporadically getting into a rythym for a couple of weeks before missing a session due to any no of genuine reasons, but then this leads to missing more sessions and before you know it i've stopped completely.

So why is it I keep failing,

Its not a fear of failure, surely that would stop me trying in the first place,

Have I set myself up mentally to fail. Maybe I expect to fail and take comfort when it occurs.

Maybe I just dont want it bad enough.

Maybe I like the idea of the end result but dont want to/enjoy doing the exercise enough to keep me going.

Lets take it back to trading,

If you were scared of failing you wouldn't try in the first place or maybe your scared of been successgfull and then failing because the drop would hurt more from greater hieghts??

Or maybe you're over-analysing and the problem is that you:
a) have a job and get tired
b) are straight and don't care that much if your abs aren't ripped

The two aren't mutually exclusive

Lets take it back to trading,

If you were scared of failing you wouldn't try in the first place or maybe your scared of been successgfull and then failing because the drop would hurt more from greater hieghts??

IMO once you're successful you have everything you need. All the tools at your disposal. It then becomes a game of keeping yourself motivated and not falling victim to your vices (alcohol, drugs, gambling, wh0res - take your pick).

You see it everywhere. Moseley to Theakston. Cobain to Bobby Brown. Carradine is the winner up until now though as I think he'd ticked all the boxes on his final night.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

you're only saying that because you're a non-believer and trying to use negative influence to manipulate Aaron into losing all his money taking the other side of you're trades

I don't lose money in stirs I lose it in equities and forex so it's a redundant plan.

 

[donaldduke]

Trading success requires hard work and sacrifice.

So I can see why many people might actually fear success.

They dont want to pay the price. They would rather enjoy a low stress easy life.

 

[0007]

Trading success requires hard work and sacrifice.

So I can see why many people might actually fear success.

They dont want to pay the price. They would rather enjoy a low stress easy life.

Interesting paradox isn't it? - I've found that success (in trading) enables me to enjoy a low stress easy life.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

Trading success requires hard work and sacrifice.

So I can see why many people might actually fear success.

I still think that's fear of failure. fear that the hard work and sacrifice don't pay off.

They dont want to pay the price. They would rather enjoy a low stress easy life.

I didn't know such a thing existed. It's all relative innit?

 

[arabianights]

I didn't know such a thing existed. It's all relative innit?

There's different kinds of stress; imo the kind in trading is a fairly uniquely painful kind...

 

[Technically Fundamental]

Because you could be haemorrhaging money from the anus and eyes and it could be out of your control?

 

[arabianights]

I don't know why... I think it's because you cannot escape, at least until you close a position

 

[Vaco]

Trading success requires hard work and sacrifice.

So I can see why many people might actually fear success.

They dont want to pay the price. They would rather enjoy a low stress easy life.

I completely agree with this and it fits well with other areas as well, keeping fit, quiting smoking etc.

So the first step surely has to be to own up to this. Then you can decide to either

1.stop because you no longer wish to trade

2. continue without change because its all just a but of fun (and gets you out of household chores)

3.write a plan of what you want to achieve, the steps you need to take to get there and what has stopped you from achieving it up to now.

 

[donaldduke]

Interesting paradox isn't it? - I've found that success (in trading) enables me to enjoy a low stress easy life.

Trading stress is related to position size.

You can grow you account at 20% a year with low stress or you can aim to make 200% a year, the latter will come with much more stress.

Personally i want to grow my account to many millions and start running out of liquidity before i am happy making 20% returns. But for now its high stress/hard mental work 200+% returns i am aiming for.