Is all discipline not the same?

[commanderco]

Correct, though it's important to focus on just what it is that "discipline" is supposed to do.

Yes, "discipline" failed them, but not because of any fault with discipline as such. They were instead expecting discipline to cure all of their unresolved conflicts with no further thought or effort on their part.

You have summed it up very well in my opinion.
Discipline is only one part of the overall physological make up of a succesful Trader.

 

[RUDEBOY]

Money management has been my area of bad discipline in the past, and iv'e wiped out because of it. Rather than stay small i upped the anti( thought i was the BEESNEES), WRONG! Its easy to get disheartened when your losing and try and start chasing losses back, on the other hand, you can also get carried away when your winning, and start putting too much money into the position. This should not happen, and i have learned my lesson!

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates,

As much as I agree with many things you say about trading I find your posting style wordy and arrogant. I think this might have been obvious to the earlier poster who commented about two egos going at it. If you don't see the arrogance and egotism then you might reread the sentence in red above and consider that similar sentences are repeated in a number of your posts.

You might also reconsider the torture you proposed when you said that someone above should read all of your posts before commenting.

On the good side, you have saved db from my criticisms. This is partly because his posts on T2W are far less arrogant than those on the earlier board but also because you have made him appear comparatively mild mannered and, on occasion, almost cuddly.

I do enjoy the content of many of your posts, especially when you have something specific to say, so, if you care for me at all, perhaps you might stay more focused?

Kind Regards,
Kiwi

It is not my intention to make him appear mild mannered and almost cuddly. This is a ploy he skilfully utilises to get out of corners he puts himself into as a consequence of making statements that at best flawed and at worst untruthful.

If you observe carefully, his strategy is as follows:

He makes a statement. This statement looks plausible but in fact is insidiously dangerous because it misinforms and misdirects.

He is challenged.

He does not like this.

He retorts flippantly.

He is challenged again.

He does not answer the question.

He is challenged again.

This time he waits for several posts to be made, hoping someone will derail the thread, and cause a diversion, or a distraction, whether this occurs or not, he is again challenged.

This time, his response is to attempt to divert our attention from the challenge and the proper answer it requires.

He is challenged again.

He thinks about it...But still does not answer the question.

He tries to divert the topic again, either using sarcasm, or false hilarity, or irony, or any other device to avoid answering the question directly, because this for him is an admittance of error or ignorance. This he is unwilling to do, because it dents his intent.

Now he tries another ploy. (quite funny really) He either changes the subject altogether or proceeds to reply to quesions with other questions, in the hope the challenger will get bored or embarrassed or run out of steam and give up.

But an admission of error or a reply to the original question is still not given.

Now this kind of behaviour leads me, and other very well informed people, and I have been observing and studying these tactics of his for a long time) to two possible conclusions:~

Notwithstanding the irrelevant bluster, his knowledge bank is not that great.

Because it is not that great, he is fearful of revealing it, and is in fact an information beggar, a covert information beggar.

I have on many occasions seen pronouncements he has made to all of you that I could blast out of the water easily.

I do not bother for several reasons :~

He has made me realise that he provides a very useful misinformation and misdirection service, and is able to attract victims to the market. Plentiful victims are essential to maintain liquidty and maintain order flow for the informed to take advantage of immediately. This is too valuable to be spoilt, just for the sake of saving a few people from themselves.

He is completely mesmerised by what he has read in textbooks and other out of date stuff.

He insists and persists in pushing oudated ideas not relevant to todays markets.

He likes to draw in arguments that he can manipulate, because you must understand that many people' s depth of knowledge about what he pontificates is not very deep at all, in consequence the challenges he normally meets are of little consequence to him.

Now, you take all this as you please, and then one day, when you finally evolve, you will realise that everything I say is chillingly right.

 

[nine]

LOL. That was fun.

I fully appreciate the cynical view about market fodder and often wonder whether, when being helpful, I am unintentionally creating exactly that same effect. And then I wonder whether this is bad or good ... after all, a bit under 10% will actually achieve their goals.


Edit: LOL. You too db. Surely you don't get a commission for Winnie the Pooh? Or is that one of the books you wan't in return for secret knowledge?

 

[dbphoenix]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/103-9407787-0291850?v=glance&s=video

 

[TheBramble]

Is All Discipline Not the Same?

I've been operating at sub-periscope depth for a little while (black ops - biomind, psi attack capability development with Dolphins - can't say too much) and communicating via Super Ultra Long Wave and Superluminal Thought Channels...

However, we have all been watching closely to see which of you is made of the right stuff, as we are, and we're not going to tell you what it is - and we are all very amused with the way this has developed. Sufficiently so to offer a suggestion. (BTW - The Dolphins are showing more intelligence than either of you...no surprise there. They suggest catching the next wave. But they may just be spoofing us - again)

Socrates/dbp: - As self-appointed and self-acclaimed gurus of trading and all that it entails, why don't you show us real discipline (steady Bertie!) by not posting any further on these boards - ever again? If you've truly mastered your Self and mastered Discipline - both of which are vital to Master Traders - this should be a 'no sweat' for you both.

It doesn't matter which of you breaks cover first or under what pretence (such as challenging my 'right' to issue such a challenge to you or your 'rights' to post as and when and where you like). It wont matter. Doesn't matter how smart (or confusing ) your response - we'll all know - you can't walk your talk. And the other one wins...

So, whichever of you posts first is the LOSER!!!!

Flood bladders, hoist the mizzen, flay the gannet and pass me the cabin boy. Damn, this desert air is dry! Where's my grog???

 

[dbphoenix]

Edit: LOL. You too db. Surely you don't get a commission for Winnie the Pooh? Or is that one of the books you wan't in return for secret knowledge?

As I've said repeatedly, there is no secret knowledge. All one has to do is be available to what's there.

As for the rest of this schoolyard stuff, I don't take it nearly as seriously as you and Socrates and Bramble and Roberto The Appalled seem to. I'm much more concerned with how the people I work with are doing.

 

[counter_violent]

The wonderful thing about Tiggers , is I'm the only One!

 

[SOCRATES]

As I've said repeatedly, there is no secret knowledge. All one has to do is be available to what's there.

Classic glasswall example followed by typical chainmail gate situation.

 

[TheBramble]

dbp wins (well, loses actually) by a whisker (Tigger whisker???). Must be that dry desert air that gets him up so early...unless...

Kiwi - spot on my old antipodean son. If you know as much about the market as our Dynamic Duo, I am in awe.

 

[TheBramble]

As I've said repeatedly, there is no secret knowledge. All one has to do is be available to what's there.

Or pay you $30...

I'm much more concerned with how the people I work with are doing.

Does that include those you 'worked with' on ET?

 

[dbphoenix]

The following examination of what Yoder calls the "payout/payback" cycle (or the win/lose or hot/cold or whatever cycle) and how it affects discipline and resolve may be of interest to those who are struggling with these issues (Warning! Secret Knowledge being revealed):

http://5minuteinvestor.com/blog/

And, yes, he has a newsletter and he is a consultant and speaker and so on. Ignore all of that if it upsets you and focus on his comments regarding the cycle.

 

[dbphoenix]

Or pay you $30...

Is that it? How funny. Nearly everything that is in the book is available for free if you want to go looking for it. Ask Porks.

Does that include those you 'worked with' on ET?

Yes, it does. I'm always interested in helping people who are willing to do the work. But if they're not willing to do the work, there's not much I can do about it. One can read every book, attend every seminar, sit through every course, apply every method/indicator/system, subscribe to every newsletter, post to every trading website, but he isn't going to move ahead until he does the work. That's life.

 

[TheBramble]

But Mr. B., this is just someone else peddling their version of what discipline is. Even Mark Douglas (who I do rate) can only 'point at' the manifestations of Discipline and give a few helpful hints.

The thing is, unless you have a very specific personal profile of the individual trader and are able to work with them closely, it is virtually impossible to define what it is he or she needs to do to develop the discipline necessary to trade they way they want to trade.

The only person who can do that is the individual him or herself based on feedback and focus.

Not very useful advice I know. But it is the truth and a lot more useful than posts on this thread generally.

 

[TheBramble]

Is that it? How funny. Nearly everything that is in the book is available for free if you want to go looking for it. Ask Porks.

Then why are you selling it? And Porks who? I'll ask around at playtime.

Yes, it does. I'm always interested in helping people who are willing to do the work. But if they're not willing to do the work, there's not much I can do about it. One can read every book, attend every seminar, sit through every course, apply every method/indicator/system, subscribe to every newsletter, post to every trading website, but he isn't going to move ahead until he does the work. That's life.

That's your life - not necessarily anyone elses.

There is a puritan/christian/methodist ethic that mankind has had imposed on it for a couple of thousand years (and much to the delight of those who seek to control society - it still sticks - a bit) that dictates we have to work hard to get what we want in life (and even then, don't expect too much - too soon - or ever).

Then there are those who simply do not subscribe to the dogma of those who attempt to imprint us during our formative years - and - guess what - it is just as simple as you care to make it.

Still, carry on. There are plenty of those out there who still need to feel the pain...

 

[dbphoenix]

unless you have a very specific personal profile of the individual trader and are able to work with them closely, it is virtually impossible to define what it is he or she needs to do to develop the discipline necessary to trade they way they want to trade.

The only person who can do that is the individual him or herself based on feedback and focus.

Exactly, which is why I started my group. But even there, less than 10% of the members are actually doing the work, which is why I've given the other 90% until the end of the month to make the commitment.

You don't learn discipline at weekend seminars. You don't get it in books. You don't get it from message boards. You have to do the work.

 

[dbphoenix]

Then why are you selling it? And Porks who? I'll ask around at playtime.

Because I updated it all, added new material, and redrew all the charts. But, as with the original material, much of it is available for free. You just have to read my posts. But you'd probably consider that to be work.

Those who'd rather just click for it have to decide whether or not the convenience is worth $30. If it isn't, that's their choice

That's your life - not necessarily anyone elses.

There is a puritan/christian/methodist ethic that mankind has had imposed on it for a couple of thousand years (and much to the delight of those who seek to control society - it still sticks - a bit) that dictates we have to work hard to get what we want in life (and even then, don't expect too much - too soon - or ever).

Then there are those who simply do not subscribe to the dogma of those who attempt to imprint us during our formative years - and - guess what - it is just as simple as you care to make it.

Still, carry on. There are plenty of those out there who still need to feel the pain...

If you've been able to achieve success in trading without doing the work, congratulations. Unfortunately, you seem to be unique.

 

[TheBramble]

Exactly, which is why I started my group. But even there, less than 10% of the members are actually doing the work, which is why I've given the other 90% until the end of the month to make the commitment.

Or they're OUT!!! Repressive bulls*hit...

At the end of this month then, more people will have 'failed' at something. When in reality all they will have done is not found their way to do something. Or not found your way useful to them. But will they get a good feeling from the exercise? I doubt it by the tone of your comments.

It's the stick not the carrot with you my man, and it probably works for you. Unfortunately, it's also what passes for education at this time in bona fide establishments and what does such untold damage to aspirations, abilities and energy.

Still, as long as you get your kicks from having the grateful few manage to jump through your hoops.

 

[TheBramble]

Oh and dbp -

Discipline is - arbitrarily deciding not to post anything further on this thread. Which is what I've just done.

Feel free to follow this one up and have the last word. I know how important that is to you.

 

[dbphoenix]

Yes, they're out, though I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the thread. If they'd rather study, or just sample what's available, they can participate in the public PV Forum which Sharky and the moderators so kindly put together recently. If and when they've decided to begin the work, they're welcome to re-apply. But if someone is silent, i.e., no journal, no response to content, there's not much I can do for him.

As for my hoops, as you put it, I suppose so. But those who are doing the work have created and continue to create their own hoops. I ask them what their goals are and they decide how they're going to reach them. But, again, I'm not clear on what any of this has to do with the thread.