Indicatorless Trading Strategy

[darktone]

hello FC
ill post something up later with screenies and rules. Very simple

abit like me

 

[dbphoenix]

FetteredChinos,
What you ask is very difficult to demonstrate with specific rules as such trades derive from many factors and actual trading experience, not rules per se.

Not really. It's primarily a matter of definition.

Here, a double bottom off potential S, buy a move above the last swing high. One of the simplest trades there is.

 

[bracke]

Not really. It's primarily a matter of definition.

Here, a double bottom off potential S, buy a move above the last swing high. One of the simplest trades there is.

Bearing in mind the requirement for "hard and fast" rules are you saying that the following applies?

1 Identify double bottom at support.

2 Wait for swing high

3 Buy on next up bar after swing high

The above to be applied without any other considerations?

Would a similar strategy apply to a double top at resistance ie. wait for swing low, sell on next down bar after swing low.

Regards

bracke

 

[Roberto]

These days I too trade Ross Hooks almost exclusively ... and would try and contribute to any such discussion.

I would be very interested in the Ross Hook

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Now that I know how to post my charts here, please just give me a day or two to set the ball rolling, if you will - am just back from holiday here and barely unpacked.

... the Ross Hook ... [is a variation] ... of the rectangle, which goes back to Schabacker and Wyckoff and even Dow. If one wants to avoid over-optimization, it's best to study the source material. Otherwise, one winds up formulating extensive sets of rules and making complicated what is essentially very simple.

I'll be keeping it simple, DB. "I know no other". But you must recognise that such set-ups are regularly traded by many people who haven't read Schabacker or Wyckoff or even Dow and are now very widely known under and indeed recognised by the name "Ross-hook". For many of us perhaps a little less "puritanical" (I've perhaps chosen the wrong word and I really must stress that I absolutely don't mean that impolitely or disrespectfully at all!), Joe Ross was our introduction to the subject and is our original source. Anyway, you are of course free to heckle in "my thread" just as I occasionally do in yours.

 

[dbphoenix]

For many of us perhaps a little less "puritanical" (I've perhaps chosen the wrong word and I really must stress that I absolutely don't mean that impolitely or disrespectfully at all!)

Not a matter of "puritanism", but simplicity. Lots of people have been trading the "cup with handle" for many years as well, or trying to, but if they don't know the basis of it, they create too many rules, most of them unnecessary.

Both the Ross Hook and the CWH -- and all other variations of the rectangle, including the Darvas Box and the ORB -- are means of defining the balance between buying pressure and selling pressure. Trading rules are the result of this defining process and can be as specific as one wishes.

 

[dbphoenix]

Bearing in mind the requirement for "hard and fast" rules are you saying that the following applies?

1 Identify double bottom at support.

2 Wait for swing high

3 Buy on next up bar after swing high

The above to be applied without any other considerations?

Would a similar strategy apply to a double top at resistance ie. wait for swing low, sell on next down bar after swing low.

Regards

bracke

2. If you have a double bottom, you automatically have a swing high.

3. You can buy the "up bar", or you can buy the move through the swing high.

The reverse, of course, also applies.

 

[bracke]

2. If you have a double bottom, you automatically have a swing high.

3. You can buy the "up bar", or you can buy the move through the swing high.

The reverse, of course, also applies.

2 Fair comment.

3 can you explain "or you can buy the move through the swing high" please

Regards

bracke

 

[Mr. Charts]

Not really. It's primarily a matter of definition.

dbp,
I agree, it is definition.
I assumed that the title "Indicatorless Trading Strategy" excluded patterns since the title was not something like, "How to trade using patterns only".

 

[FetteredChinos]

dbp,
I agree, it is definition.
I assumed that the title "Indicatorless Trading Strategy" excluded patterns since the title was not something like, "How to trade using patterns only".

precisely mon brave.

im looking for something that can be set in stone, and not for the exclusion of past trades because such and such criteria wasnt met etc.


bracke's attempt to sum up DBP's post is what im after.


dont ask for much do i?

anyone know any cures for a caffeine headache?

fc

 

[dbphoenix]

3 can you explain "or you can buy the move through the swing high" please

Regards

bracke

I don't know what you mean. Move through, exceed, rise above . . .

 

[dbphoenix]

dbp,
I agree, it is definition.
I assumed that the title "Indicatorless Trading Strategy" excluded patterns since the title was not something like, "How to trade using patterns only".

Defining a setup is not the same as creating a pattern, though one can certainly do so. Patterns become indicators only when those who are using them forget -- or don't know -- why the patterns are being formed, one reason why so many people have trouble trading them.

Many novices seek to be intuitive from the starting gate, but if they don't know what they're looking for, they won't recognize it when they see it, and putting in a lot of screen time -- in and of itself -- doesn't necessarily aid in this recognition process.

 

[Roberto]

anyone know any cures for a caffeine headache?

Whatever they are, they work quickly because caffeine itself promotes the swift absorption of most common pharmaeceutical remedies in the small intestine. But I digress (all too often, according to some ...).

 

[bracke]

dbp

I said - "buy on next bar after swing high"

You replied - "You can buy the "up bar", or you can buy the move through the swing high."

I interpreted your reply as yes you can buy on the next bar after swing high but you appeared to be suggesting an alternative when you said that you can buy the move through the swing high; it is this alternative that I do not understand. Would it be easier if you posted your chart again showing the entry points

Regards

bracke

 

[dbphoenix]

dbp

I said - "buy on next bar after swing high"

You replied - "You can buy the "up bar", or you can buy the move through the swing high."

I interpreted your reply as yes you can buy on the next bar after swing high but you appeared to be suggesting an alternative when you said that you can buy the move through the swing high; it is this alternative that I do not understand. Would it be easier if you posted your chart again showing the entry points

Regards

bracke

What I said originally was "buy a move above the last swing high". If you want to "buy on next up bar after swing high", that's up to you, but that includes a variety of buypoints, some of which may not be above the last swing high.

The arrow on the chart previously posted shows the entry point.

 

[bracke]

What I said originally was "buy a move above the last swing high". If you want to "buy on next up bar after swing high", that's up to you, but that includes a variety of buypoints, some of which may not be above the last swing high.

The arrow on the chart previously posted shows the entry point.

Thank you. I understand.

Regards

bracke

 

[darktone]

hello FC
ill post something up later with screenies and rules. Very simple

abit like me

Sorry, hands kinda full atm.. not sure if im on topic but here goes.
For this i use a 4 hr chart for view and 15 min for entry. min RR is 10/1

rules:-

Reason to be there:
i) 4 hr horizontal S/R or 4 hr trend S/R (i use sms alarm)

Entry method:- *see screenies*
i) set up a hot zone (ie a nice level in the 15 min chart) walk away.
ii) when price has hit hot zone alarm look for a completed bar that is no longer than 10 pips. set up a PAR / CON order around this bar. and so on until you have entered.
iii) If a bar that is larger than 10 pips is reversed then set a limit / stop order at 10 pips.

Exit method:-
i) at target.
ii) best i can if hour price action starts to break down. (hi/lo PA starts to turn against you).

 

[FetteredChinos]

thanks chaps...

looks interesting DT. i'll see if i can backtest this sort of thing...along with the other ideas..


good job im on a break from trading for a bit..

fc

 

[barjon]

fc

try this

After 3 successive bars of higher highs and higher lows AND higher volume await correction bar (lower high) which must have lower volume than the 3rd trigger bar or lower volume than subsequent up bars if their volume exceeded that 3rd trigger bar.

Buy on break of correction bar high or move buy point down to high+ of next correction bar if correction continues. Same if there's another one, but forget it if there's more than 3 correction bars. Stoploss at correction bar low- .

vice versa for shorts (except volume, of course, must be higher, higher, higher)

good trading (or should I say research at the moment)

jon

 

[bbj_anchor]

US stock options

I trade options and track options unusual volume which is 5 times the 30day avg volume...play them in direction of the option ie either put/down or call/up. This works 70% of the time and actually usually both ways...as if wrong pick will loose 100% and wins exited at 100% or at week of expiry... winners usually pretty early on... losers usually break even near expiry...unless really bigg winner that you would have gotten out of.... THIS IS TOTALLY AN INDICATORLESS SYSTEM.... But I use BBands and Stoch to tune it up and reduce the # of plays... Much better win% of about 85% since 2000 Jan. I also dont put the exit in as some drop 50% overnight and want that big win! This system is predicated on the hypothesis the big boys manipulate the market to make huge $$$ and I want to ride with them....

I have about 6500+ hours on this study and it's right on....

 

[Baruch]

Both the ORB and the Darvas Box are indicator-less, and the DB also incorporates fundamentals, and the rules are as "hard and fast" as you want them to be. You could investigate those if you like.

ideally im after something other than range breakout strats, as they always end up being hideously over-optimised and tweaked using ATR etc..

Which is what one usually winds up with if he wants "hard and fast" rules.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Darvas method worked and still works, but he also used fundamentals. He called himself a techno-fundamentalist investor. Read his book. The best ever written about stock trading.