Indicatorless Trading Strategy

[FetteredChinos]

Would anyone like to post one on these boards for discussion?

anyone?


helloooo?

I think im alone now....

 

[bracke]

Would anyone like to post one on these boards for discussion?

anyone?


helloooo?

I think im alone now....

BOO!

Be honest Seymour, that made you jump didn't it?

What would be regarded as i/less trading - I suggest the following:

1 Price action
2 Price and volume
3 Fundamentals
4 Seat Of Pants
5 Contrarian

1 and 2 have/are been discussed on other threads
3 rarely mentioned
4 often mentioned but not to be encouraged
5 maybe some mileage .

Regards

bracke

 

[FetteredChinos]

i know where you are coming from bracke, and im a big fan of the no-indicators thread (twas my vote for the members awards)

but it is all still very subjective.

i was wondering if anyone had actually some hard and fast (how i like it, baby) rules that could be investigated....



fc

 

[cd173]

Hi FC

I'd also be interested in hearing some. :idea:

Are you refering to the likes of JonnyTs SpotOn strategies and the type discussed in 'Developing a Trading Strategy' article.

I would of thought there would be thousands out there, but I don't see very many discussed on these boards which involve no indicators...........or did I miss that..........

C

 

[bracke]

i know where you are coming from bracke, and im a big fan of the no-indicators thread (twas my vote for the members awards)

but it is all still very subjective.

i was wondering if anyone had actually some hard and fast (how i like it, baby) rules that could be investigated....



fc

I suspect that i/less trading and "hard & fast" are opposites.

By definition 'indicatorless' means use of knowledge and experience to 'read' the charts/news and reach a conclusion for that point in time. The strategy would be more of a method of operating rather than the 'h & f' that you crave.

Regards

bracke

 

[Roberto]

Would anyone like to post one on these boards for discussion?

I'd absolutely love to, especially since it's where my "daily bread and butter" comes from (trading "Ross-hooks"). However, I have an apparently insoluble problem in this regard ...

... it's absolutely impossible to discuss and explain these things without being able to post charts and diagrams here. I used to be able to do this, but the charting software I now use can only be "saved" as a ".bmp" and apparently I can't post them here.

If I can find a way round this (but it would have to be a very simple way round, because I'm surely one of the least computer-literate people here) there's nothing I'd like more than to start off an interesting illustrated discussion of trading these things, which I do every day; but honestly it's absolutely impossible to try to describe it without charts, which is part of the reason I've gone so quiet these days (so you have that, at least, to be grateful for).

 

[FetteredChinos]

precisely cd.

ideally im after something other than range breakout strats, as they always end up being hideously over-optimised and tweaked using ATR etc..

eg something along the lines of fading a breakout on weekly charts after x number of up weeks etc

surprisingly this is rather profitable, and im not divulging this one on the boards im afraid, but it gives you an idea what im after.

ie, slightly off-the-wall ideas.

Barjon's long candles idea looked promising, and is the sort of stuff i was thinking of.

niblicks,

Fc

 

[dbphoenix]

Both the ORB and the Darvas Box are indicator-less, and the DB also incorporates fundamentals, and the rules are as "hard and fast" as you want them to be. You could investigate those if you like.

ideally im after something other than range breakout strats, as they always end up being hideously over-optimised and tweaked using ATR etc..

Which is what one usually winds up with if he wants "hard and fast" rules.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

[FetteredChinos]

I'd absolutely love to, especially since it's where my "daily bread and butter" comes from (trading "Ross-hooks"). However, I have an apparently insoluble problem in this regard ...

... it's absolutely impossible to discuss and explain these things without being able to post charts and diagrams here. I used to be able to do this, but the charting software I now use can only be "saved" as a ".bmp" and apparently I can't post them here.

If I can find a way round this (but it would have to be a very simple way round, because I'm surely one of the least computer-literate people here) there's nothing I'd like more than to start off an interesting illustrated discussion of trading these things, which I do every day; but honestly it's absolutely impossible to try to describe it without charts, which is part of the reason I've gone so quiet these days (so you have that, at least, to be grateful for).

Dear Boberto.

a simple way to convert BMPs to slightly less right wing images is...

open MS paint.

open the BMP in question, then click "save as". and in the bottom of the dialogue box that pops up, you can select file type ".jpg"


hope this helps.

would be good to see your methods.

silence isnt always golden.

FC

 

[FetteredChinos]

Both the ORB and the Darvas Box are indicator-less, and the DB also incorporates fundamentals, and the rules are as "hard and fast" as you want them to be. You could investigate those if you like.

Darvas Box eh?

Half man, half-trading machine.

i will have a look.

thanks DBP

 

[blackcab]

Roberto - get your chart up and press ALT-Prt Scr (probably near the Scroll Lock key) to make a copy of the current window. The ALT copies just the window; Prt Scr on its own copies the whole screen.

Go into an image editing program like Paint or Paint Shop Pro and press CTRL V to paste it as a new image, then save it as a GIF. (GIF is better than JPEG for charts as it keeps the image as it is; JPEG removes some information so the image ends up fuzzy.) You can crop the image before saving it to cut out the junk, too.

Paint tends to mess up the colours when saving as a GIF. Paint Shop Pro & others do a much better job.

 

[bracke]

Did a search on google cannot find orb but found Darvas Box which prompted the thought - an indicator by any other name would be as sweet, apologies to William S.

I do not want to get involved in an extended discussion - but when is an indicator not an indicator?

Regards

bracke

 

[Roberto]

Thanks very much for your help with that image-saving/image-posting problem, guys. Resolved now. I'll try to start off an illustrated thread on "Trading The Ross Hook" over the next day or two, and we'll see if anyone's interested in discussing it.

 

[dbphoenix]

Paint tends to mess up the colours when saving as a GIF. Paint Shop Pro & others do a much better job.

Even tho this is off-topic, I have to add my vote to this. Old copies of PSP can be had on eBay for next to nothing, tho if looking at anything older then 7.0, it's a good idea to check the JASC website to make sure that one's operating system supports the older versions (but even 7.0 can be had for $20). Anyone who annotates and maintains archives of charts owes it to himself to buy this program.

 

[dbphoenix]

Did a search on google cannot find orb but found Darvas Box which prompted the thought - an indicator by any other name would be as sweet, apologies to William S.

I do not want to get involved in an extended discussion - but when is an indicator not an indicator?

Regards

bracke

ORB is an abbreviation for Opening Range Breakout. It and the Darvas Box (and the Ross Hook and the Cup With Handle, etc) are all variations of the rectangle, which goes back to Schabacker and Wyckoff and even Dow.

If one wants to avoid over-optimization, it's best to study the source material. Otherwise, one winds up formulating extensive sets of rules and making complicated what is essentially very simple.

 

[FetteredChinos]

orb stands for opening range breakout. Davros looks like an indicator too from my brief look.

though it may have merit, judging by this link??

http://trader.online.pl/MSZ/e-w-Darvas_Box_II.html

(could anyone explain the code in simple english, even if it isnt the "official" code?)

there are versions of it plastered all over the web.

i think traderclub has the "official" description buried deep beneath the spam that wrecked that forum.

FC

 

[davelong]

Thanks very much for your help with that image-saving/image-posting problem, guys. Resolved now. I'll try to start off an illustrated thread on "Trading The Ross Hook" over the next day or two, and we'll see if anyone's interested in discussing it.

Hi Roberto,

I would be very interested in the Ross Hook, I have read a lot of Joe Ross's books, it would be great to hear from and discuss with someone who is putting it into practise.

Kind regards

David

 

[bracke]

dbp & Seymour

Thank you for your explanation of orb.

Regards

bracke

 

[fastnet]

Roberto -

These days I too trade Ross Hooks almost exclusively. Daily time frame usually although hourly or even 15-min set-ups when I have chance. I'd be really pleased to find someone else trading this method on these boards and would try and contribute to any such discussion.

Best regards

FN

 

[Mr. Charts]

FetteredChinos,
What you ask is very difficult to demonstrate with specific rules as such trades derive from many factors and actual trading experience, not rules per se. At least it is in my experience and the way I do it.
When you have the foundations of several trading methods and add real experience to the mix, then you can look at a situation and sometimes see what is going to happen BEFORE it does.
This to me is not a matter of being able to foretell the future but is simply experience telling me what is extremely likely to happen in the next few seconds.
This afternoon, for example, I was looking at one point at GOOG and saw a scenario set up and my methods and more importantly my experience told me it was going up within a few seconds and that there was no way (on the basis of previous experience) GOOG was even going to move one cent against me.
It went up immediately after my buy and I exited less than a minute later for a profit of $1.40 per share.
So as far as my personal methods of trading this type of situation is concerned no chart or screen image would show any reason whatsoever why I took the trade - although I did exit for the normal reasons.
I am not posting this because I want to say I made a good trade this afternoon, but because the GOOG trade was completely without indicators.
I'd be very interested to read about others having similar rule-less trades.
Richard