IG Index Thread

[Paulds11]

Another rant from you......and you expect people to take you seriously

Predictable... please read my last post to you again, make sure you understand every sentiment. That is my reply to you my dear...

Remember.. lets not make it personal..other than that we welcome your contribution although you cant expect us to always agree with it...

Have a nice day Pipppin

 

[Pippppin]

I agree Hobby, but by skewing the spread, as well as widening the spread, they can and do effectively manipulate the price you are buying or selling at

 

[Paulds11]

Did anyone consider the obvious around here.......S B Co's provide charts in the main .....trade the chart, Not the Real Market price...........

Ohh indeed although the epiphany suggested still causes me to freeze like a Rabbit in headlamps.. because it is a good one, no, stunningly simple and brilliant at first glance.. like theories should be..

However..on further reflection..and considering those new to the whole idea... I just dont trust them after the behavior I witnessed thus:

clipping at market opening because they are market makers as opposed to providing a market as Market Takers. I proffered questions relating to this over and over... with muted responses included "well get back to you" replies, and never to do so in a timely fashion.

The graphs themselves are a problem in that they do not reflect the volatility of some markets so the impression is false meaning you set a stop loss only to find its been hit despite observing nothing of the sort by 100 pips... yes 100 pips.. (the Nikkei) whilst watching the graphs diligently

I then discover the market can be skewed at any time mid session... that affects those who are heavy on the fundamentals and thus makes a mockery of the fundamental provisions offered to customers and puts these traders at significant disadvantage...

Banana skins everywhere.. and insufficient information on the nature of how they work in my opinion...

regards
Paul

 

[hobby]

I agree Hobby, but by skewing the spread, as well as widening the spread, they can and do effectively manipulate the price you are buying or selling at

But that's my gripe...they are SPREAD betters. When assessing a trade, I look at the spread, make my judgement & place the bet - that should be their profit. I don't mind the price being skewed by the spread because I enter into it knowing what it is.

What my issue is IS them skewing the price...that shouldn't be for them to do - it's conflict of interest. It should mirror the underlying instrument exactly.

there'd be uproar if the changed the final result of a footie match so why is it acceptable to change the price of say the DAX cash price?

 

[hobby]

Did anyone consider the obvious around here.......S B Co's provide charts in the main .....trade the chart, Not the Real Market price...........

That would be fine, *if* they didn't unwind their skewed price now & then (in other words if it stayed parallel to the main market price), but what I often see is for example when the DAX is going up, their price accelerates ahead & stays above by approx 3-4 points, it can hold this discrepancy for some time (like hours), but when the market starts levelling or the volatility dies, then they unwind their price discrepancy to take it down to match the market price.

So then, essentially you've paid over the market odds by four points! (not including spread)

 

[minx]

That would be fine, *if* they didn't unwind their skewed price now & then (in other words if it stayed parallel to the main market price), but what I often see is for example when the DAX is going up, their price accelerates ahead & stays above by approx 3-4 points, it can hold this discrepancy for some time (like hours), but when the market starts levelling or the volatility dies, then they unwind their price discrepancy to take it down to match the market price.

So then, essentially you've paid over the market odds by four points! (not including spread)

Surely thats an awesome arbitrage opportunity!! Sell the SB price and buy the futures, you'll lock in 2-2.5 points! Do this for £10,000 a day and they'll soon stop.

 

[counter_violent]

Sure, it's a tricky business at the best of times and I can't speak about I G....but I figure they are all much of a muchness.....One conclusion I came to a long time ago was to trade slightly larger size and target a few less pips/points......thus negating any skewing they might do......by playing them at their own game ....of a fashion...lol

 

[the blades]

That would be fine, *if* they didn't unwind their skewed price now & then (in other words if it stayed parallel to the main market price), but what I often see is for example when the DAX is going up, their price accelerates ahead & stays above by approx 3-4 points, it can hold this discrepancy for some time (like hours), but when the market starts levelling or the volatility dies, then they unwind their price discrepancy to take it down to match the market price.

So then, essentially you've paid over the market odds by four points! (not including spread)

Hello Hobby,

Out of interest,are you comparing the SB price with the DAX index or futures? I mainly use indices for hedging and certainly don't look for the odd point but I'd be interested to know how closely their price relates to the futures (the tradeable instrument), which it's priced from.

Cheers,
UTB

 

[hobby]

Hello Hobby,

Out of interest,are you comparing the SB price with the DAX index or futures? I mainly use indices for hedging and certainly don't look for the odd point but I'd be interested to know how closely their price relates to the futures (the tradeable instrument), which it's priced from.

Cheers,
UTB

I'm comparing the Reuters live DAX cash market quote against IG DAX daily quote.

 

[dgproject]

Hi all,

I'm rather new to spread betting, and I'm checking the IG site right now. I'm a little bit confused, when looking at the change in the FTSE 100 Daily, and at the change in the FTSE to finish up. I would say both contracts have the same underlying, but at this moment the FTSE 100 daily has a change of -55 and the FTSE to finish up has a change of -52.

Can anyone explain how this is possible?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Paulds11]

dgproject..... Welcome to the ridiculous, perplexing and irritating world of spreadbetting

know what you are getting into first! is my suggestion.... don't even think about day trading using spreadbetting companies, if I were you Id u turn right here. away from spreadbeting or even CFDs unless you are aware that range of spread and differences in the graphing price can be anomalous, off putting and leave you down when you should be up even if you use external graphing tools like e-signal or proquote as your data source. just my opinion

Paul

 

[dgproject]

Paul, thanks for your comment. I already thought it was a tricky business...

But still, my question remain: why is there a different level in the underlying? Or do they use different assets?

 

[Windowsill]

Paul, thanks for your comment. I already thought it was a tricky business...

But still, my question remain: why is there a different level in the underlying? Or do they use different assets?

Does it matter?

If the market moves 100 points you are still going to make 100 pts thereabouts!!!!

Look at the bigger picture and save your energies.

 

[Riverland]

But still, my question remain: why is there a different level in the underlying? Or do they use different assets?

Well I don't know for sure (I don't trade indices), but I would hazard a guess that it has something to do with cutover timing. You can trade the FTSE index all day. At 4:30pm when the markets close the index cuts over and the gain/loss is reset to zero. I expect this also happens at 8:00am but have never checked. As the index moves so fast, the timing only has to differ by a few seconds to account for a few points difference.

 

[Paulds11]

Look guys, the reason they values change is one reason and no other reason will suffice whatso ver.. are you ready for this golden answer?


PROFIT .. at your expense pure and simple...

Someone wrote " who cares your still going to get 100point of there abouts" hmm.. Id love to hear you say that when you play Australian index at open and see the real index make a 40 point gain in the first 10 minutes only for the IG value to afford you only 5 points, of that gain... and you think any anomaly is limited to proportions or is only single digits?...
come again dude... and if it hasnt happened to you yet in a day trade capacity... it will..

Look, we all know people need to make money but what I cant stand is that you wont get a straight answer from anyone on this.. that smells to me really badly..

There is good money to be made end of day trading etc, just dont day trade and expect not to have your feathers ruffled

just my 2cents...

 

[hobby]

The reason for the discrepancies is nothing more sinister than different 'close' times.

FTSE closes at 4.30pm at Price A.

IG closes a few minutes later at Price B.

For trading the FTSE it matters not a tot. If IG's rollover price (& that's all it is) closes higher than the the actual FTSE...it makes no odds. For example you are long FTSE & will be rolling over a daily trade into the next day....

FTSE closes at 6500

IG rollover price 6503.

So next day, let's say the real FTSE is +10 points, however IG's index FTSE price will show only +7 ...but you've already had the 3 points extra at rollover so it all evens out in the wash.

So don't get too hung up on the (seemingly) quoted price mismatches...on this bit IG are legit.

 

[Paulds11]

Sorry Im so not convinced..

not because your explanation is unfounded, it fills a huge hole but rather IG never explained that issue to me once in my quest for the truth.. and I was at their necks hardcore for 3 months ... as such it still leaves me tainted by the whole messy "clawback" experience through issues not monetarily related to a bad trade decision. Things are just not as transparent as they should be amongst many companies offering spreadbetting and CFD tools.. the more I dig the more rubbish I find, and they have admitted that they do skew the volatility ad ad hoc times of the day... so your explanation works... in part only, that still leaves "stains on the collar" im afraid.. no matter what washing powder you chose to use...

Ahh well, perhaps I should have paid more attention in the beginning, they are a BETTING company and thats why thier is no tax on the winnings. Whenever there is betting there is gambling.. my problem was that I never wanted to gamble, I wanted to trade and all that information about markets and fundamentals provided by them was a smoke screen... the odds are tough enough let alone an additional wildcard against you offered by spreadbetting.... AVOID oh ye Traders...avoid!..

just my view
Paul

 

[hobby]

Sorry Im so not convinced..
Paul

Fair enough, but if you're not convinced it means you don't understand the intracacies of the scenario, if you don't understand - avoid.

I've been doing this for years & can talk at length about the ways in which the SB companies screw you over, but having a different rollover time/price (which is what we're discussing here) is not one of them.

 

[Paulds11]

quote: "but if you're not convinced it means you don't understand the intracacies of the scenario"

Look Im not here to argue with you on what you know or dont know.. but please dude.. I think youd do well not to assume such a thing without having qualified first the actual extent of my knowledge so your claim is without merit and is an emotional response based on my rejection in part of your "solution"...

My good fellow, if I want to be dogmatic it would appear that I know more than you because you have failed to address the arbitrary ability for the firm to apply volatility characteristics to the actual underlying... and they do, but your answer doesn't address this...

 

[hobby]

quote: "but if you're not convinced it means you don't understand the intracacies of the scenario"

Look Im not here to argue with you on what you know or dont know.. but please dude.. I think youd do well not to assume such a thing without having qualified first the actual extent of my knowledge so your claim is without merit and is an emotional response based on my rejection in part of your "solution"...

My good fellow, if I want to be dogmatic it would appear that I know more than you because you have failed to address the arbitrary ability for the firm to apply volatility characteristics to the actual underlying... and they do, but your answer doesn't address this...

WTF?? Didn't the original question relate to "why does a spread betters 'net change' differ from the underlying indice?"

I explained the price discrepancy, you said you you're 'not convinced' (which can only mean you think I'm lying or you haven't grasped what I've said...so which is it to be?). I've outlined (whether you're convinced or not) how/why the price discrepancy happens, & letting others here that may have associated concerns that there is no foul play wrt mismatched rollover prices. It's simply a mismatching of 'closing' times for closing prices.

Spreadbetters will violate your p00psh00t in every which way they can (& by the sounds of it they already have), but rollover pricing confusion isn't their weapon of choice.


S