IG Index 'stole' £5500 back from me

[gamma]

Thanks for that grantx,

Presently I am in Transilvania
I love experiencing different cultures and countries so have spent time in hungary,Singapore ,Philippines, Hong,kong and Washington my next move might be to South Carolina in the states
That is what the best thing about trading you can live anywhere.But must admit still miss home at times.

 

[stevespray]

Thanks for that grantx,

Presently I am in Transilvania
I love experiencing different cultures and countries so have spent time in hungary,Singapore ,Philippines, Hong,kong and Washington my next move might be to South Carolina in the states
That is what the best thing about trading you can live anywhere.But must admit still miss home at times.

Technical you will not be allowed to spreadbet from the US. (Even if you 'live' somewhere else).

Steve.

 

[gamma]

I am not a U.S citizen,

I believe I should not come under any u.s fiscal regulations

 

[grantx]

Gamma,

Eastern Europe still retains an air of mystery to me. Trading from a laptop anywhere in the world. One day, maybe. I certainly envy you.

Re spread-betting from the US, may be wise to check that out. If it is illegal to set-up there, there must be questions regarding trading.

Grant.

 

[gamma]

I never had any problems the last time I was in the U.S
But what's the worst that can happen I get thrown in a U.S prison and then get deported.I can then add
U.S prison to my list of experiencing different cultures.

Grantx, If you don't have anything tying you to the u.k then take the plunge you will not regret it.
I have come across a lot of traders who lead much fuller lives from the freedom they get from trading.
I do not want to give the impression that I am some high flying jet setter, what I make would probably just give me a modest comfortable living in the u.k

 

[grantx]

Gamma,

I'm in the middle of setting everything up, actually, hopefully completed by the end of this week.

Re your suggestion for taking the plunge, this is one of the drivers. Trading from every European scandal would be brilliant. Bored with Amsterdam? Try Copenhagen/Rome/Frankfurt/Vladivostok, etc. The stuff of dreams for me, mate made real and simple.

Re the States, I was talking to a guy in my local who spent around 6-months touring. I asked him the friendliest place and surprisingly, he said Alabama. I asked if there was any racial tension and he said absolutely none – everyone is really good. I’ve never been to the US but always fancied the Deep South, especially the swamps.

A US prison record would certainly impress the old lags down the Old Kent Road. “Mad” Frankie (the axe) Fraser will be a friend. Further, being an English Gentleman would immediately command respect from inmates, especially members of the Bloods and Cripps.

Grant.

 

[gle101]

Re your suggestion for taking the plunge, this is one of the drivers. Trading from every European scandal would be brilliant. Bored with Amsterdam? Try Copenhagen/Rome/Frankfurt/Vladivostok, etc. The stuff of dreams for me, mate made real and simple.

What about Sweden, great scenery and beautiful girls!

 

[gle101]

Gle,

"I am quite impressed with how well they have been able to solve this technically rather difficult issue".

With respect, Gle, this is probably more a reflection of your lack of knowledge (which seems to surpass my relative lack of knowledge) on this subject.

"an exchange live feed is preferable" to confirm the SB's quote. This shouldn't be necessary.

No problem Grant, no offence taken. Earlier in my career, I have worked a lot with IT related issues, including software, hardware and Internet applications. So I know very well what I am talking about. I am well accustomed to the technical demands that are required, in order to present quotes in real-time on a live site. To recalculate the real market feed, including the spread, is not as simple as it sounds, when we are talking about speed and updates in milliseconds of financial information. This, in combination with security issues, makes it essential and crucial that everything works as flawlessly as possible. Superior speed handling and sophistication, both by the software application and by the hardware, such as servers is required, not to forget the site monitoring and the back office administration. Combined with the handling of maybe thousands of orders simultaneously, is asking a lot from the system and trading platform in question. In fact the whole financial industry is constantly asking for faster real-time systems in order to live up to an ever increasing demand for speed. I suggest you read up about RTOS (real-time operative system), and what impact they have on the financial industry as a whole, to get some idea what I am talking about.

When trading with SB you need an alternative and external source feed, just to be completely sure you get the correct quote. You have the real market feed that needs to be recalculated and the SB spread added, and then presented instantly and correctly on the site. This is a source of error, and should not be ignored. Even if a major misquote rarely happens, it might be a hard learned lesson to get caught up in one. When the real market moves in a highly volatile situation, you must be completely sure that the SB quote follows the movement to the point, without any kind of delay in synchronicity with the underlying instrument.

With DMA you also have issues to deal with, I have a friend who lost a fortune on a failing front end application (API). DMA is not the "Holy Grail" as many DMA traders portrait it to be, it is not completely hassle free. I am quite confident saying trading with DMA does not make you a better trader, but experience for sure will.

 

[grantx]

Gle,

Don't worry, Sweden is definitely on my list (I've alread bookmarked a few web pages).

You are absolutely correct regarding the IT infrastructure but I doubt CS started from scratch and assembled all the seperate components. Nor should it be expected. This is a specialism requiring (expensive) professionals/experts. However, there are numerous firms providing this and I would suggest the process is pretty straightforward - it's commonplace and done everyday all over the world.

They could probably do it on a shoe-string with Reuters, Excel and DDE's.

Re your friend's API. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't an API basically a blank canvas on which the user provides his design and inputs? Perhaps your friend made an error in the coding.

Grant.

Grant.

 

[gle101]

Gle,

Don't worry, Sweden is definitely on my list (I've alread bookmarked a few web pages).

You are absolutely correct regarding the IT infrastructure but I doubt CS started from scratch and assembled all the seperate components. Nor should it be expected. This is a specialism requiring (expensive) professionals/experts. However, there are numerous firms providing this and I would suggest the process is pretty straightforward - it's commonplace and done everyday all over the world.

They could probably do it on a shoe-string with Reuters, Excel and DDE's.

Re your friend's API. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't an API basically a blank canvas on which the user provides his design and inputs? Perhaps your friend made an error in the coding.

Grant.

Grant.

Grant, I am glad to notice that you have not missed out on Sweden. It is quite clear you have not understood my post and the problems involved with a SB fixed spread feed. Who is mentioning anything about CS?

By front end applications I was refereing to program such as NinjaTrader and ZerolineTrader.

 

[grantx]

Gle,

And also Denmark, Norway and Finland. Greece and Spain is so passé.

CS are a good an example as anyone.

Of course, there are problems with even the best software (Ninja Trader certainly has a good reputation) but it's a question of confidence and reliability. Even Reuters has problems but I don't think these are grounds for abandonment.

Grant.

 

[gle101]

Gle,

And also Denmark, Norway and Finland. Greece and Spain is so passé.

CS are a good an example as anyone.

Of course, there are problems with even the best software (Ninja Trader certainly has a good reputation) but it's a question of confidence and reliability. Even Reuters has problems but I don't think these are grounds for abandonment.

Grant.

Well, I guess I should have mentioned that my friend did not have any problems with these two front end applications, NinjaTrader and ZerolineTrader.

 

[Axis of Evil]

Anyway, going back to the topic through Transylvania (Vampire Country), Sweden, Ninja Trader and what not..

Poker_Trader, why did you switch from Poker to Black Jack? I mean, Poker is about playin' tha players and Black Jack betting against the house, isn't it? Not that I'm an ace Poker player, but you understand what I'm saying? These SB-ers can be such.. SoB's!

Hopefully you'll challenge the "casino" for the 5 biggies they took from you. Well, at least that's my point of looking at it. If their quote-system erroneous , then they should be liable for that. It should not be allowed to alter a price/quote when the deal is done. In case of a spread betting contract, as soon as you put you chips on the table, the bet was on, on basis of the quote given at the time it was accepted by the BS.

Hopefully the court will see it as I do and will eventually result in a better SB system overall, giving them the opportunity to break free of the "bucket shop" or "bad casino" reputation. Which would be beneficial for the SB industry as well.

On the other hand, these SB .. or BS (Bucket Shops) will probably written their T&C in such a way that every bet accepted by them is done on their terms and not the terms of what generally is believed and accepted, it is being done. If I was a SB, I would certainly state in my T&C that a bet would be terminated, if and when I SEE FIT, without any reason what so ever, based on the T&C you signed and accepted, creating an account. It's my company and my terms. Simply take it or leave it.

This is why this is very interesting how the UK court would rule on such a dispute. Then again, the court would probably do the opposite of what I believe is righteous and since it's not my buck getting this to court, I leave it up to you and wish you good luck.. and go back to the Poker table, making the other guy go nuts about your worthless hand.. if you know what I mean!

 

[poker_trader]

Thank you very much Axis of Evil.
I know what you mean, and I really like your analogy of switching from Poker to BlackJack. I should (and I am btw) stick to something I really am good at, until it's not so profitable anymore, then I will learn to SpreadTrade properly...

About the 5.5k, I haven't done anything yet. I did some estimate of the cost, and I think the evil laywer proably will charge me for at least 10 hours (of time with me and time he spend on writing documents blah blah blah) which will cost 1500 to 2000. My own time is worth quite a bit of money too. Probably I will have to travel to London as well, and when I sum up the cost of trying to claim it back, I think it's not that worth it at the moment, given that I am extremely busy.

Someone helps me with this question please: am I still allow to bring this matter to court in a few years time?

 

[DT]

Someone helps me with this question please: am I still allow to bring this matter to court in a few years time?

You have up to 7 years I believe though I really doubt you'll win.

Their T&Cs explicitly cover this sort of situation for a start. As much as I'd hate to side with a bucket shop I believe they are in the right here. Sometimes software/data issues do occur and their business model has in place safeguards to cover these sorts of faults. I'd wager you'd have been fairly quick to complain if your account had lost 5500 in 2 minutes due to massively erroneous prices.

If you're really serious about pursuing it then you could always try the small claims court:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

Personally I'd forget about the whole thing and move on; the slightly more worrying aspect of all this was that you were trading a product without even realising that the price was 100 ticks off.

 

[tar]

YEs it has happened to me!!! in fact literally quite regularly guess at least one every quarter. Last time it happened was when i got Cad Options, bought in good faith, yes the price did appear cheap, after 3 days sitting on a nice profit, closed it, with a nice profit

They voided the whole bet stating that the entry price was wrong i mean their error!
but equally it has also happened when i have also been at the other end ie end paying too high for a call options, the market goes up substantially but i still lose!!! - when this happens i have no legs to stand and have to take the loss

this is bull****

Hi , can u give us the details of that option trade ? because i am thinking to trade daily options with igindex

 

[butidonot]

I want to take advantage of leverage.

As you do not recommend Spreadbetters, can I ask with whom you decided to go with?

 

[Hotch]

1-As said before, you signed their T&Cs, deal with it.

2-Doubt a court will go with you, see point 1, and also, from looking at the argos case a few years back where they priced tv's, but forgot to put a couple of zeros on the end or something. Think argos has less of a case then IG.

Sorry.

 

[stevespray]

1-As said before, you signed their T&Cs, deal with it.

2-Doubt a court will go with you, see point 1, and also, from looking at the argos case a few years back where they priced tv's, but forgot to put a couple of zeros on the end or something. Think argos has less of a case then IG.

Sorry.

Technically there are a number of rather large holes in your arguement;

1) Whilst an organisation can say that "the client has agreed to T&Cs" no part of those T&Cs (or interpretations thereof) can contradict laws or regulations which have a greater implication. For example - A shop may state A,B & C in their T&Cs of sale but they must also state that "Your statatory rights are not effected" which is effectively an acknowledgement that their T&Cs cannot deny you the rights afforded to you under the law. This is not an 'option' on the part of the business but a requirement.
Therefore, because these 'greater laws' (for want of a better phrase) exist a firm are not at liberty to simply play off their T&Cs in an attempt to overpower a clients statatory right. If you read some of the T&Cs of the spread bet firms then you will see statements towards the rear of the documents like "If there is a conflict between these T&Cs and the Financial Services And Markets Act then the Financial Services And Markets Act shall prevail"

2) The 'online sales' cases actually argue against your points but you dont seem to see it.
You see, in their defence these firms now claim that their T&Cs clearly state that the taking of clients payments does not constitute a contract being formed at that moment in time and that the processing of a clients payment merely indicates that a clients order has been submitted and is awaiting acceptance or rejection. This is not so with a spread bet! And this is the critical difference which your argument fails to address - A spread bet is clearly 'accepted' once the firm relays the acceptance back to you. Can you see how the online shops get around this issue by moving the point of acceptance to an unspecified moment in time after you submit your order to them? Clearly the SB firms cannot do this since the markets are constantly moving. In any dispute the court would look at whether acceptance had occured - this would be the sole pivotal issue in the case. If the online shops could simply state, in their T&Cs, that they had the right to cancel clients deals after they had been accepted then don't you think they would do so? The reason that they don't is because of the points which I raised in point 1 - it would breach statatory rights.


Therefore, if a case like this ever went to court then the firm in question would be seeking to make legal history as well as over turning hundreds of years of legal case law.
The firm would have to admit that they had entered a contract with their client - they would be hard pushed to imply that they were not in a contract from the moment that they issued their "order accepted" conformation notice. Having admitted that they had agreed to contract with the client they would be left in a position where they were trying to claim that they could retrospectively consider the contractual acceptance - No court would ever accept that principle since it is in direct contracdiction of contract law.

Steve.

 

[Hotch]

Well, I was presuming the T&Cs follow the law, I don't know the T&Cs or the law too well, but i doubt they'd have something in there which breaches statatory rights.

As for the argos case, i thought they were accepted.

Still doubt he'd win in court, meh.