If you want to fail as a trader, study TA

[BSD]

The "Didn't talk in riddles" is the most pertinent observation here. When somebody cannot concisely and succinctly describe their trading method/system /analysis/methodology they are either unclear in their own mind or spinning bull****. When threads go ob for 20, 30 40 pages and the most diligent reader cannot ascertain what they are saying it is almost always bull****.

Absolutely agree 100% !!!

Id definitely call grey a technical trader tho, DT. In fact, his private sub forum was called 'technical traders' I think?) Some of his methods were quite TA based. Lots of his stuff was to do with cycles.

Absolutely.

I've seen him take a gazzillion trades where all he did was enter on the basis of his MACCI - CCI with a moving average - aligning on multiple time frames.

He'd use tight stops generating very favourable risk/reward ratios, unload the larger part of his position pretty quickly pocketing singles, and let the rest ride for a potential homerun.

Nothing complicated there whatsoever, just a sound method with a soilid expectancy because of the way he skewed his stop losses / take profits, and in tune with how markets move, ie in cycles, and sound position management.

Best way you can trade imo is simply identify a trend, and enter on a pullback.

That's so simple a kindergarten kid could do it, that's all I do, and what can one say, it works.

You can identify the trend via price action or with moving averages, you can identify the pullback with oscillators or bands, or again just visually, but the basic underlying concept is sound and every single chart you look at will readily let you identify lots of opportunities that if traded with discipline will easily make up for your losers and then some. Even works in ranges provided they're large enough, the pullback there is also just an overbought / oversold cycle you're trading.

Markets always oscillate between OB / OS and thatÄs all one needs to understand to make money at this.

 

[elitejets]

<sigh>
The more I learn the more I realise there are many ways to trade profitably and TA is one of them.
No method is better than any other.
The only thing that is important is (1)does it suit your personality so that psychologically you can stick to it in a disciplined manner (2) Is the sum of your winners greater than the sum of your losses.

TA works for me also because I do not have access to a lot of information for other methods and I find charts leave footprints or road-maps of what the big real money is doing.
Someone who cannot master discipline will fail at any method and a lack of understanding about how markets work will trip you up eventually.
Mastering trading is as much about mastering your own demons as it is about mastering a trading method.

 

[N Rothschild]

imo TA is one step behind the curve..

TA will show u where people have been buying, price action bla bla..but why arnt you one of the people buying in the first place? (without needing a chart to tell you to buy or sell) thats what i do now..

 

[temporarilylight]

imo TA is one step behind the curve..

TA will show u where people have been buying, price action bla bla..but why arnt you one of the people buying in the first place? (without needing a chart to tell you to buy or sell) thats what i do now..

using what method to decide to buy?

 

[trendie]

TA is all we have.
The people with the advance knowledge will always be in first. They will also be the first out.
Without access to the first-hand information, all we have is the second-hand, one-step removed information from bars and charts.

Totally acknowledge that TA is behind the curve. But, that can be mitigated by rules and discipline as per elitejets.

Without TA, and short of in-the-know contacts, what else do we have??
We have to read the recent past and infer projections into the imminent future.

PS: BSD has described in his post the reason why pullbacks/retraces are so brilliant! The robustness of them. I only wish I could make more money from them!

 

[N Rothschild]

now that would be telling! keep my method very close to heart as its taken me a long time to get to it after many a disaster! basically threw sentiment in the markets (i have alot of good contacts in the pits to get this sort of quality info) knowing what the big boys are doing..also helps to not think like a retail trader..i now think how to rob retail traders. i.e joe blogs will be doing this, if i do this..his bases will be belonging to me

 

[N Rothschild]

TA is all we have.
The people with the advance knowledge will always be in first. They will also be the first out.
Without access to the first-hand information, all we have is the second-hand, one-step removed information from bars and charts.

Totally acknowledge that TA is behind the curve. But, that can be mitigated by rules and discipline as per elitejets.

Without TA, and short of in-the-know contacts, what else do we have??
We have to read the recent past and infer projections into the imminent future.

PS: BSD has described in his post the reason why pullbacks/retraces are so brilliant! The robustness of them. I only wish I could make more money from them!

thats total rubbish, ta isnt all we have..there is many ways to trade the markets..just because you havnt found them doesnt mean they dont exist!

 

[N Rothschild]

2 trades im looking at the moment, i dont even need to look at a chart to enter.

 

[FXTrend240]

It's not necessarily whether you study TA, but why.
If you are just beginning and have FA and TA as two options, and you say " FA seems to complex for me, whereas TA seems really easy, pin bars are all i need" then that's a really bad way to start and this attitude will bring you to fail.

The average beginner:
avoids anything in the way of complex or hard
choses TA
doesn't understand that markets aren't set in stone, markets change and if you don't adapt you are f*****.
And last of all, the big boys are better than you, they have more money, more contacts, quicker news..etc. but you can still make money trading...

 

[N Rothschild]

some1 speaking some sense, i sometimes think the t2w motto must be "ignorance is bliss"

 

[FXTrend240]

By the way, i'm not saying TA is bad in any way, i use it. In fact i haven't even traded any real money yet so i'm a major noob, it's just that being on these forums for a while i see patterns of fail.

At the moment i'm learning economics/fundamentals for currencies and then going live, taking it slow and aiming to get into an IB to manage money, maybe.

By the way , i think a lot of beginners trade forex for the wrong reasons too:
cheap,easy charting with MT4
leverage
can start with $5

Why not start with futures?stocks? because a 1% gainwill only make you gain 1%? whatever.

 

[oiltanker]

there is a free vid at ino tv where the guy who wrote market wizards [many of those included have been mentioned already] talks about strategy.

you have to sign up to see it but its free. the vid is in the greyed out bit at the bottom [till you sign up]. you have to sit through an ad.

i have nothing to do with them just an interesting vid from the guy who has talked to more successful traders than probably anyone.


http://tv.ino.com/free/

 

[oiltanker]

i quite liked socrates threads. a bit like the riddler from batman? good entertainment

 

[The Expert]

I see we have some interesting posts, some not so interesting, and some just plain damn stupid.

To reiterate, I am arguing that RTA, or the Regular Technical Analysis that is pushed down every aspiring traders’ throat, is pure and utter rubbish. Of course we must use some sort of ANALYSIS to help us form an opinion before we act, otherwise we might as well just throw the proverbial dart at the newspaper and go with where it lands.

Now, as for the so called “elite” whom have been mentioned, a very observant member rightly noted that these are few and far between, but, what has not been mentioned is the fact that if these people actually knew what they were doing, they would actually make far more than what they are currently making. You will find, behind it all, that the reason they are successful has absolutely nothing to do with RTA, but is due to various other things that all good businessmen possess, and I will leave you work that one out for yourself.

 

[oiltanker]

...and I will leave you work that one out for yourself. ..

or watch the market wizards video

 

[The Expert]

I find this quite interesting. I am a beginner that has been sent down the TA route due to the huge amount of information available on the subject . TA attempts to document what would otherwise be almost random movements of a market and is very reliable in hindsight which is of no use to anyone but so easy to write a book about!

The original poster and some others are saying TA doesn't work and you have to understand the mood of the market and know what the big boys are doing. Interesting but how, phone them up and ask them? TA does at least give a point of reference from previous events, even though conditions today are not the same as yesterday etc.

I like everybody here would love to hear of a "system" or "method" of reading the market that doesn't use a single S/R line or trend line or candlestick pattern that returns a success rate of say 75+% but the details seem to be a little slow in coming in this thread which several readers have already pointed out. More answering questions with questions.

Maybe there is a way where you could show us actual trades that you have taken and give the reasons why. I suggest using a chart for the simplicity value of seeing the outcome of the trade, even though the chart may not have played a role in deciding to enter. What lead you to a particular stock/future/currency, what made you say "now is the time to invest". How did you guage where your target was and where you should exit if it goes against you?

thanks, Coop

OK Coop, I will give you some food for thought.

Firstly, any person with any bit of sense will know that books are written to sell and make money, same way as some traders run "courses" for other traders, again to make money. No one can refute this fact.

Secondly, if the prime objective is to make money, then anything else is secondary and will not even get a second thought, unless of course it has the potential to interfere with the money making, whereby it will get full attention, and will be worked on until it no longer poses a threat to making money.

Thirdly, and I can see you thinking this to yourself now, if RTA and so called "courses" based on RTA are rubbish, then what options does that leave the aspiring traders out there?

Not much, really, as the whole industry is set up to suck in suckers, get them to part with their money, suck in more suckers, and so on. The market surely does operate in cycles, but not the cycles that most think of.

However, just because the rest of the world will be suckers, that in no way means that you have to be a sucker. The first step on the path to real success, is knowing you are a sucker and asking yourself why are you a sucker? Only when you find the answer, and truly believe it, can you move on to the next level.

 

[The Expert]

...and I will leave you work that one out for yourself. ..

or watch the market wizards video

The real funny part is, you are actually serious.

 

[N Rothschild]

OK Coop, I will give you some food for thought.

Firstly, any person with any bit of sense will know that books are written to sell and make money, same way as some traders run "courses" for other traders, again to make money. No one can refute this fact.

not true in my opinion..many yes..but there are those who take pleasure from educating and passing on knowledge.

 

[The Expert]

The "Didn't talk in riddles" is the most pertinent observation here. When somebody cannot concisely and succinctly describe their trading method/system /analysis/methodology they are either unclear in their own mind or spinning bull****. When threads go ob for 20, 30 40 pages and the most diligent reader cannot ascertain what they are saying it is almost always bull****.

Hmm, another lame thinker in the class. As I have mentioned many times already, I am quite content with just 1 or 2 serious traders conversing with me, the rest as far I am concerned, can do what they like, as I know what I know, and what I know is not widely known.

 

[The Expert]

not true in my opinion..many yes..but there are those who take pleasure from educating and passing on knowledge.

Apart from myslef, I know of no others.

And the names of the people you know are?