If you want to fail as a trader, study TA

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Originally Posted by temporarilylight
DT - Im not sure if you've detailed your method at all or not, but am I right in thinking it is a little like Mr. Charts type of method? - picking stocks based on news etc and then trading them based off of time and sales info?
cheers.

News stocks only form a part of my alert list.
After that come specific set ups/charts and only then do I focus in on the third "dimension" of level2 and T&S - and that only at specific times to read buy/sell pressures. The latter sometimes provide me with a strong edge, not always.
Richard

Indeed.

In fact, I think I have the L2 stuff down now - it's the stock selection I must refine as I'm not doing that great at it currently.

Obviously - the IB trades aren't L2 - just the Tradestation stuff.
 
I traded BAX too - Well actually i bought last night and sold the open.

The only reason i mention this is because the other day we traded 4 of the exact same markets... This time; i had to say something.

P.s. Its funny that you have a tradestation + IB account (as i do too) but do you have Esignal aswell ? be a major coincidence.

The Twilight Zone strikes again.

I don't use esignal but I may need to move as their order book app looks far superior.

Is esignal what you are using ?
 
I'm only taking a passing interest in this thread as I failed dismally to grasp anything from TE's first thread and thought this one would also leave me feeling similarly frustrated. However, while I don't agree with the premise of the title, I have to admit that I used conventional TA for two trades today and had my arrrrrse ceremonially handed to me on a plate. Long at the first bloo circle and short at the second. Yes, I had stops in place, so no serious damage done. But, it reinforces something I've known for a long time: I've never been able to get my head around trading with the trend! Enjoy my (minor) misfortune folks!
Tim.
View attachment 77610

I agree with Rothschild - any fool could mark those breakdowns on a chart in retrospect.
 
So if we go back to the title of the thread I think we all actually agree that studying and thus understanding TA is actually extremely useful for a trader - but (unless you are scalping) relying entirely on TA is a bit dumb.
 
as for oil, inventories came in quite high, market sold off 100pts..ended the day higher..when you know why, you no longer need charts to trade! :)

But that's the whole point all along, that is based on the premise that market participants are rational beings, that the homo oeconomicus exists and is thriving, and that a majority can actually decipher what a "right" price is and what isn't.

To me and the way I see the world that's a fallacy. First of all, who and what is to determine what a fair price is, economics certainly isn't a hard science by any definition of the word.

And then, people aren't any more rational than the markets they drive through their actions, people are supremely behaviourally driven emotional beings on a permanent rollercoaster from irrational despondence to irrational exuberance and straight back again.

That reflects in markets that always have and always will translate the emotions of it's price creating participants into wild swings and bubbles that have very little to do with underlying economic conditions.

Look at oil over the last years, look at stocks that had zero change from the late 60s to early 80's, look at the internet bubbles, etc etc, not much rationality behind any of that is there.

Markets simply can and will remain irrational far longer than it's individual participants can remain solvent, so to me it makes much more sense to trade what is, not what ratio says ought to be.

High frequency trading funds are not only the past as with James Simons and his Renaissance Technologies that have over the last two decades made him the 55th richest man in the uSA with a net fortune of US$ 8 Billion, but they are also quite clearly the future, they are by now already behind 70% of daily stock market volume, and they with their thousands of round turns per day obviously aren't stopping to check underlying economic conditions before entering, so why should anyone else need to.

This guy here I posted about yesterday, who scalps for a living using nothing but rainbow moving averages, traded live - and very profitably - at some trading expo in front of hundreds of people for free, and he gives a free webinar every thursday where he trades live too, he, like the algo funds or all the trend following CTA's or other pure technicians I've kept citing over and over are 100% living proof that price is all you need to make a fortune in markets:

http://www.godmode-trader.de/events

It's the guy in the middle, Lars Gottwik, next webinar is today. (In German, but price is price eh haha.)

Now that said I do get that leftbrainers - my brother is one, lol, always need to understand things, know why they happened, like believing in predictability, all that kinda thing, so I do get why leftbrainers would at least want to add fundamental info into their arsenal.

And that's fine and dandy as I also keep saying, and no one can doubt that there are people that make money that way.

But in any way necessary it's not, trading is about figuring out what objectives you have, how you're wired, what works for you, and then doing that, based on how many trading opportunities you want per day, week, month whatever, what kind of drawdowns you're willing to tolerate, etc etc.

What's just purely childish, mentally inflexible and plain ignorant is a thread like this with a title that against all facts makes assumptions where sufficent evidence to the contraray exists to prove it's premise just patently wrong.

Even more so as all the OP has on offer is smoke and mirrors.

Or is anyone gonna take a bet we'll ever see him trade live haha.
 
I'm only taking a passing interest in this thread as I failed dismally to grasp anything from TE's first thread and thought this one would also leave me feeling similarly frustrated. However, while I don't agree with the premise of the title, I have to admit that I used conventional TA for two trades today and had my arrrrrse ceremonially handed to me on a plate. Long at the first bloo circle and short at the second. Yes, I had stops in place, so no serious damage done. But, it reinforces something I've known for a long time: I've never been able to get my head around trading with the trend! Enjoy my (minor) misfortune folks!
Tim.
View attachment 77610

Hi Tim,

but that's perfectly normal and fine as TA doesn't make a promise of providing you with a crystal ball that can predict the future for your trading, all it does is provide you with an edge in what is just a probability game where losing is part and parcel of the equation:

Multi-Billionaire George Soros:

"I don't care when I'm wrong. I cut my losses and move on to the next opportunity. Trading is not about being right. It's about how much you make when you are right."

An observation echoed by Kenneth Grant, who in "Trading Risk: Enhanced Profitability through Risk Control", depicts his experience as risk manager for some of the best and most successful hedge funds, amongst others Paul Tudor Jones funds and Steve Cohens SAC Capital, that:

ACROSS ALL MARKET CONDITIONS, TRADING STYLES, TIME FRAMES AND TRADERS, ONE RULE HOLDS TRUE:

10% OF ALL TRADES INEVITABLY ACCOUNT FOR 90% OF PROFITS !


http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Risk-Enhanced-Profitability-through/dp/0471650919

So as long as you have an edge, and enter trades based off of that, and don't put on trades out of boredom, all is fine, then losing trades are still the right ones you should have put on.
 
Decide if that girl is turning clock or anti clockwise before clicking on this link:

Hmm, What does it mean if you keep seeing her spin one way then the other and it keeps changing which is what I see ?


Paul
 
Aha mate then you're of the gifted few parallel brainers.

cartoon_bowing_dude.jpg


:D
 
why am i long euros? thats for me to know and you to er..never! lol

I think the hardest thing about trading is sourcing good information; i imagine the reason most people don't look at fundamental or news or economic indicators is that they don't have a regular place they can read about these UPCOMING events & look at this data...

I know it took me a long time to have a 'regular' read every morning before it opens; the thing is your obviously not trading technical; so you must be trading something; so you must get information from somewhere that others aren't too familiar with ...

That was really my question. What sources do you use ?

Mine are:

Seeking Alpha.com
Bloomberg.com
Cmegroup.com
NYSE.com
Econoday.com
Ransquawk.com
dailyfinance.com
Earnings.com
Briefings.com
& one more, what is itttt.... Damn it. Got it. Investors.com

My guess; from what you've said is that you use options data (like O.I, Put/call ratios) and sentiment based on news/economic indicators to take positions - Its just a shame i'm having to guess. :D
 
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i have access to all the pits through my broker, it is extremely valuable knowing the opinions of the floor brokers..that is one of the methods i have! and yes i monitor all the sources which show open interest in the market

i wouldnt get caught up in news to much, if you read it in the main stream media, its a) to late or b) bull****!

one site i would recommend is www.zerohedge.com mainly just for alot of news and opinions which probably wont make the big sites. Although when tyler puts up a post about "x" market falling apart, its ussualy a pretty good sign to take the other side, no joke!
 
But that's the whole point all along, that is based on the premise that market participants are rational beings, that the homo oeconomicus exists and is thriving, and that a majority can actually decipher what a "right" price is and what isn't.

To me and the way I see the world that's a fallacy. First of all, who and what is to determine what a fair price is, economics certainly isn't a hard science by any definition of the word.

And then, people aren't any more rational than the markets they drive through their actions, people are supremely behaviourally driven emotional beings on a permanent rollercoaster from irrational despondence to irrational exuberance and straight back again.

That reflects in markets that always have and always will translate the emotions of it's price creating participants into wild swings and bubbles that have very little to do with underlying economic conditions.

Look at oil over the last years, look at stocks that had zero change from the late 60s to early 80's, look at the internet bubbles, etc etc, not much rationality behind any of that is there.

Markets simply can and will remain irrational far longer than it's individual participants can remain solvent, so to me it makes much more sense to trade what is, not what ratio says ought to be.

High frequency trading funds are not only the past as with James Simons and his Renaissance Technologies that have over the last two decades made him the 55th richest man in the uSA with a net fortune of US$ 8 Billion, but they are also quite clearly the future, they are by now already behind 70% of daily stock market volume, and they with their thousands of round turns per day obviously aren't stopping to check underlying economic conditions before entering, so why should anyone else need to.

This guy here I posted about yesterday, who scalps for a living using nothing but rainbow moving averages, traded live - and very profitably - at some trading expo in front of hundreds of people for free, and he gives a free webinar every thursday where he trades live too, he, like the algo funds or all the trend following CTA's or other pure technicians I've kept citing over and over are 100% living proof that price is all you need to make a fortune in markets:

http://www.godmode-trader.de/events

It's the guy in the middle, Lars Gottwik, next webinar is today. (In German, but price is price eh haha.)

Now that said I do get that leftbrainers - my brother is one, lol, always need to understand things, know why they happened, like believing in predictability, all that kinda thing, so I do get why leftbrainers would at least want to add fundamental info into their arsenal.

And that's fine and dandy as I also keep saying, and no one can doubt that there are people that make money that way.

But in any way necessary it's not, trading is about figuring out what objectives you have, how you're wired, what works for you, and then doing that, based on how many trading opportunities you want per day, week, month whatever, what kind of drawdowns you're willing to tolerate, etc etc.

What's just purely childish, mentally inflexible and plain ignorant is a thread like this with a title that against all facts makes assumptions where sufficent evidence to the contraray exists to prove it's premise just patently wrong.

Even more so as all the OP has on offer is smoke and mirrors.

Or is anyone gonna take a bet we'll ever see him trade live haha.

the answer is much simpler! your trying to complicate things lol..although im not going to tell you the answer, it is ONE word. :)
 
TA-what can it provide you with?

How many times do we have to have the TA doesn't work debate ? Lol...No matter, For me TA does work as the basis of finding a trading edge, but as elucidated elsewhere in this thread and on this and other boards, the naysayers fail to understand the limitations of TA. It is not predictive and at best, like all analysis TA can provide you with a trading edge, which is no more than a set of technical cirumstances that have historically provided a net gain over any given sample when combined with the right risk and money management. This understanding is essential in the successful implementation of TA to provide such a trading edge.

Simply put, TA is essentially the study of price movement over time as a result of supply and demand for the instrument. As an example my own entirely TA based trading edge attempts to identify what I regard as the 2 constants of technical analysis, which are both price based and a result of supply and demand;

a. Trend (via overall price action [opa] classic peak/valley analysis)- A price action phenomenon created by supply and demand and a general imbalance of one over another over any period of time.

b. Support and Resistance-essentially price based previous near-term imbalances of supply over demand or demand over supply as represented by previous price pivots, ie previous obvious fractal swing highs or lows on any given t/f. There are of course other technical phenomena in wide use that can be self fulfilling in respect of their ability to cause market participants to buy or sell at cetain price levels, such as fibs, trend lines and to a lesser extent-calculated pivots.

Knowing what the trend [caused by the overall imbalance os supp/dem or dem/supp] is and at what levels on any given t/f in wide use, market participants caused a previous near-term imbalance of supp/dem or dem/supp provides the overall technical environment from which to make trading decisions.

Add to this overall technical environment a multi (in my case 3) t/f analysis and some tools to tell me things about price that price alone cannot tell me and the trading edge begins to come together;

c. The triple t/f approach is classically Elder, identifying a main favoured t/f (intermediate) and going up or down from that intermediate t/f by a facor of 4-6 gives us a lower trigger t/f and a higher trend t/f. Such a multi-t/f analysis enables us to analyse price across those t/f's and to time entries at the earliest possible time given the overall tech environment as described by a. and b. above. By using analytical tools calculated from price, as well as price itself, cabn enhace any such trading edge;

d. Oscillator divergence: oscillator measure momentum and it follows therefore that when momentum in any direction is fading there is a growing probability that price may reverse or at least pullback.

e. Volatility: as measured by standard deviation, ie when the volatility of price over x units of time is less than that of price over y units of time on the same t/f the volatility associated with a certain price direction can be assumed to be declining. Ie if the vol over 20 units of time is less than that over 10 units of time on the same t/f then longer term volatility on that t/f is less than shorter term volatility.

* these 2 tech tolols d. and e. manifested by the indicators used to measure them can produce repeating patterns.

f. Price itself and the repeating patterns it makes that tell us something about actual supply/demand and of prevailing sentiment and possible near-term change in sentiment. To some extent these patterns too can be self-fulfilling.

So Price action, Supp/Res and Trend (all consequences of supply and demand) combined with analytical tools to measure momentum and volatility of price can provide a trading edge. The combination of these pieces of information produce repeating patterns that provide such a trading edge, and it is the confluence of this technical phenomena that provide the highest probability trading opportunities.
--------------------------------------------------------

I will furnish and discuss one such example that occurred in Gbpusd today:

Price had been rising through the London session having found an early 5022 base, Yesterday's Hi was 5131 and just above that was a descending trend line on the 4hr (shown on 1hr chart below) and also the underside of a breeched previous ascending trend line on that 1hr t/f. We can see that at 5131 - Y/day's Hi price had falled to theat 5022 level mentioned above and in so doing had created an obvious fractal swing hi which is essentially a chart representation of an imbalance of supply/demand. As price approached that 'zone' again it spiked up though it by 5 or 6 pips to the intersection of the 2 trend lines mentioned above...see 1hr screenshot below:

157f8nd.jpg


Now we know that trend lines are self fulfilling but at this level we had 2, one descending-potential resistance and one breeched previous ascendinng that when tested from the opposite underside can act not now as potential support but as potential resistance. (SBR/RBS is a technical phnomena of support/resistance analysis.) We also had Y/day's Hi so a confluence of 3 potential res/sbr factors indicating that supply might exist at that level.

Turning then to price itself at that level and looking at the 2 analytical tools described as d. and e. above, on the favoured intermediate t/f (5min) told us 3 things

i. Price had rejected the level in question and close back under yesterday's hi in a classic price action candle bearish pinbar
ii. Momentum was fading as measured by 3 oscillators and in fact there was double regular immediate seperate peak bearish divergence which can be a stronger indication of fading momentum
ii. The longer settings volatility as measured by standard deviation were less than the shorter setting std dev on the same t/f.

So we had a 3 x potential resistance factors, fading momentum, volatility associated with the upmove fading and price rejecting the potential resistance zone on this main t/f...ie a repeating pattern that tells us historically that there has been a greater chance of one thing happening over another, ie that there might be a change in sentiment and price may fall.

2ikslfs.jpg


Add to this that on the 15min and 30min t/f's too there were similar bearish divergence based Reversal set-ups that provided extra confluence and comfort to any decision to short at this potential resistance zone...15min is shown below: (on this occassion dropping down to the lower trigger t/f [1min] did not see a repeating Reversal set-up develop so entry had to be taken on the main/intermediate 5min t/f.)

dzxond.jpg



The above example is of course just one example and the naysayers will say it proves nothing, and of itself they are right. The point however is to show that in order to develop a trading edge from TA you have first to know it's limitations and what it can and cannot provide you with, as well as what the tools you have chosen to use are telling you about price, as well as what price itself is telling you.

Just one man's opinion.

G/L
 
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nice charts but hind sight is a wonderful thing

It was not hindisght to know that there had been an imbalance of supply/demand at the then Y/day's Hi , ie an obvious and near-term such imbalance manifested as a previous swing hi on that 1hr t/f...and 2 x trend lines in very close proximity to it...it was fact...the rest was just a trigger for entry, ie the trigger plus where it develops is the trading edge that TA can provide.

The evidence is irrefutable about the potential of TA to provide us with a trading edge, and that is just one example.

G/L
 
Re: TA-what can it provide you with?

How many times do we have to have the TA doesn't work debate ? Lol...No matter, For me TA does work as the basis of finding a trading edge, but as elucidated elsewhere in this thread and on this and other boards, the naysayers fail to understand the limitations of TA. It is not predictive and at best, like all analysis TA can provide you with a trading edge, which is no more than a set of technical cirumstances that have historically provided a net gain over any given sample when combined with the right risk and money management. This understanding is essential in the successful implementation of TA to provide such a trading edge.

Simply put, TA is essentially the study of price movement over time as a result of supply and demand for the instrument. As an example my own entirely TA based trading edge attempts to identify what I regard as the 2 constants of technical analysis, which are both price based and a result of supply and demand;

a. Trend (via overall price action [opa] classic peak/valley analysis)- A price action phenomenon created by supply and demand and a general imbalance of one over another over any period of time.

b. Support and Resistance-essentially price based previous near-term imbalances of supply over demand or demand over supply as represented by previous price pivots, ie previous obvious fractal swing highs or lows on any given t/f. There are of course other technical phenomena in wide use that can be self fulfilling in respect of their ability to cause market participants to buy or sell at cetain price levels, such as fibs, trend lines and to a lesser extent-calculated pivots.

First class post mate, couldn't agree more.

And you and your long running trading career are just another living proof example of the validity of net profitable trading through TA alone next to all the others, not least that guy who did his webinar yesterday with his rainbow moving averages he uses to identify momentum and then enter on pullbacks, live, profitable scalping, day after day after day, been making a living from that for 4 years he has.

Contrast that with empty hot air threads like this by the OP that are nothing than simplistic kindergarten posturing from guys with massive chips on their shoulders who can never provide any substance to back up their crap let alone provide an alternative and most definitely will NEVER trade live lol.

All guys like the OP do is yell around that the earth is flat and anybody who proves that thats bull**** is still wrong coz the OP said so haha, and never mind all patently obvious evidence to the contrary to anyone whose head isn't unfortunately cemented in the ground or whose brain hasn't taken a hiatus coz it couldn't take the crap any more lol.

It's always a clear indication of interacting with a simpleton on the verge of dysfunctionality when the opposing party are unable to wrap their brains around more than one simultaneously coexisting belief.

The mental sharpness, flexibility and openness to new undisputable facts that clash with previously held warmly cherished pet theories have never stopped these wise guys preaching and proselytising to the enlightened throughout history though has it.

:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Rotschild, you being a bad boy and frontrunning orders in the pits ??

;)

Ah heck why not then.

My very very very first introducing broker was actually trying to get me in on some insider trading scheme he had running through buddies of his at banks and funds.

Was probably pretty dumb from me that I never took him up on that, as at the time it wasn't even illegal :clap:
 
The 1hr chart below again shows the potential suport/resistance factors on the current Gbpusd 1hr t/f...look at today's current low...price effectively found more demand in a previous 1hr swing lo=previous support=potential support zone created by yesterday's lows...ie a previous near-term obvious imbalance of demand/supply that may provide such again if tested in the near future...this is what happened...knowing that there was such an area was nto hindsight it was fact....look now at the 1hr pinbar that developed from it, an effective double bottom...another technical phenomenon..what is this telling us in respect of the higher probability of where price may goe next? (there were earlier enties on the sub 1hr t/f's down to the 1min using the price action triggers combined with the other tech tools described in posts above.)

2hfi13t.jpg
 
No offense, but I need to keep my alkaline / acidic balance in order so I think I'll go for her instead:

tf.org-Prozac-Nation-free.jpg



And pop a couple of these with her:


Prozac.jpg


:clap:
 
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