If It's All About making Money?

wisestguy said:
This coming from a guy that doesn't use a stoploss
Socrates has always been an ardent advocate of using a (very tight) stop loss. He may well chose to not use them in his own trading, who knows, but your lack of basic appreciation or understanding of the profiles of members you attempt in vain to attack rather supports Socrates' analysis of your style and character.

If you were a real trader, you'd quit now - while you're still not too far behind. But you'll probably confirm all our suspicions by responding - again.
 
Can you see the location of your opponent players?If so it might be possible to target the bleary eyed midnight oilers if there are any international sites?
 
Socs, only price action traders can truely be hailed as the kings. Everybody else are parasitic? Price only is the real ' dark side ', anything else and your sucking a dummy, IMO. I'm still sucking the volume dummy, i will trade price only, one day! Any thoughts.
 
Price action only in poker terms could be called 'playing the blind', don't you think?
 
jonnyy40 said:
Can you see the location of your opponent players?If so it might be possible to target the bleary eyed midnight oilers if there are any international sites?
You can in theory, but one never knows if they have listed their location honestly. At Ladbroke's, players in USA are excluded (unless it's changed recently: I haven't played there for a few weeks). I think that many of these people are far from bleary-eyed in the small hours, which might actually be their most alert time of day: perhaps early to mid-afternoon, when they've just got up, is the time to try to catch them being inattentive!
 
TheBramble said:
Socrates has always been an ardent advocate of using a (very tight) stop loss. He may well chose to not use them in his own trading, who knows, but your lack of basic appreciation or understanding of the profiles of members you attempt in vain to attack rather supports Socrates' analysis of your style and character.

If you were a real trader, you'd quit now - while you're still not too far behind. But you'll probably confirm all our suspicions by responding - again.


Another self appointed cheerleader . how boring.

I don't need to understand no profile to know, as you have admitted that soc doesn't use a SL.

that in my view is a loser . if that somehow offends your fantasy with him , then I'm sorry , I cannot account for hurt emotions.

I have an official statement from FinSpreads that I am in the top 20% of their clients .

would you like to shatter your own fantasies and see it ?

look who's the real trader now huh ?
 
Dbphoenix comment

I found a comment from db on Elitetrader:

"If traders trade to make money, then why do so few of them make money?"

I completely agree. I actually had a dream last night in which I was told "If you trade to make money you will fail, fail, fail." I woke up freaking out, and realised that of course - the desire to make money causes the emotional issues that cause traders to not observe correctly, and to not act correctly, in line with market behavior.

It is a complete paradox, but I believe that the desire to make money is what causes people to lose when trading.
 
wisestguy,

I am curious about your comment that

I have an official statement from FinSpreads that I am in the top 20% of their clients
In view of the fact that 95% of all SB clients lose money, then does this mean that you just lose less money than the other 80% ? In other words to be profitable you would have to be in the top 5% of clients and not just the top 20% or did you mean something else by your comments ?


Paul
 
Another angle on this Trader333 might be from the corporate financial persepctive.

If you were the CFO a company, which customers would you put in your top 20%?

The ones giving you the least money?

Or the ones giving you the most money?
 
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wisestguy said:
Another self appointed cheerleader . how boring.



I have an official statement from FinSpreads that I am in the top 20% of their clients .

would you like to shatter your own fantasies and see it ?

look who's the real trader now huh ?

I trade with Finspreads, I am happy with them but I don't take any notice of crap like that, sorry,
not because I doubt you but because I don't believe them! You should not, either. Just get on with it and stop worrying about where you are with reference to the other traders, no one is going to tell all the truth, anyway.

There is a lot of useful information on these boards but one has to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Most of the chaff is telling everyone else how good they are but it is of little use to the rest.

Good trading

Split
 
you wish !

Trader333 said:
wisestguy,

I am curious about your comment that


In view of the fact that 95% of all SB clients lose money, then does this mean that you just lose less money than the other 80% ? In other words to be profitable you would have to be in the top 5% of clients and not just the top 20% or did you mean something else by your comments ?


Paul

- majority lose but up to 90% , there would be no punters otherwise , instead the SB biz gets bigger every year .

- it states that I am in the top 20% at least ! where I don't know , they didn't want to specify due to co.policy . I got this as a special favour from the ACOUNTS DEPT. ( not some PR person.) a certified doc.

- I guarantee you I am a net winner , my account varied from 6-10x return on risk cap . over a sunstantial period of time

I hope this clarifies it .

best of luck in your trading
 
Splitlink said:
I trade with Finspreads, I am happy with them but I don't take any notice of crap like that, sorry,
not because I doubt you but because I don't believe them! You should not, either. Just get on with it and stop worrying about where you are with reference to the other traders, no one is going to tell all the truth, anyway.

There is a lot of useful information on these boards but one has to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Most of the chaff is telling everyone else how good they are but it is of little use to the rest.

Good trading

Split


I'm not worried about nothing . i just state a fact , which you do not like, thus you chose not to believe.

I have not only the statement but the trade record to back it up .

right on this note , I will sign off on this thread , I will not post again on it . it has run out of useful conversation.

ta ta ! and er best of luck .
 
Wise,
Dont get me wrong,[I'm with you] but it seems that a lot or some members on this forum are people that have been thrown out [barred] from other places. They seem to enjoy personal attaks/insults on others, I dont know why it is this way ? I dont blame you for getting out.
It will be interesting to see what happens in this thread when all the sensible people leave. :LOL: :cheesy:

bull
 
Well, anyone who's actually been around T2W for more than 5 minutes knows that describing Bramble as one of Soc's self appointed cheerleaders is complete twaddle for a start. One of Soc's biggest critics I would accept.

Second, Bramble was merely saying Soc advocated the use of tight stops - surely that is the point of it all? Bramble has no idea what Soc actually does, neither have I, nor has anyone else except Soc. Wisestguy is not alone in deciding he can spot a good/bad trader by posts on this board, and the personal attacks were both incoming and outgoing. I am struggling to spot the constructive comments from him on anything, however. For a good long while all he posted was insults.
 
DaveJB said:
Well, anyone who's actually been around T2W for more than 5 minutes knows that describing Bramble as one of Soc's self appointed cheerleaders is complete twaddle for a start. One of Soc's biggest critics I would accept.

Second, Bramble was merely saying Soc advocated the use of tight stops - surely that is the point of it all? Bramble has no idea what Soc actually does, neither have I, nor has anyone else except Soc. Wisestguy is not alone in deciding he can spot a good/bad trader by posts on this board, and the personal attacks were both incoming and outgoing. I am struggling to spot the constructive comments from him on anything, however. For a good long while all he posted was insults.
Actually, Dave JB and Bramble, I am immensely grateful, sincerely grateful to you both, and for different reasons.

I am grateful to to you Dave because you have persuaded me to accept that discussions on websites such as this one are best restricted only to what is mainstream, meaning that which is in the public domain and is acceptable to members according to their frame of reference according to popular conscensus, which incidentally is not mine.

One example of this, is discussions about the different kinds of time and and how this abstract concept / faculty can be re engineered and utilised, which you call precognition for want of a better word.

Another example is the question of intent, which is not widely understood either.

Or the concept of preemption as part of a strategy, which is meaningless to individuals who persist in confusing methods with systems.

Another example is what volume is able to conceal and paradoxically, blatantly show, when it is read correctly.

Another example is the trap the unskilled fall into repetitively, with regard to seeing in a chart what is immediately desireable to them, that is, what they persuade themsleves in some perverse manner they want or hope to see, and not what they ought to be seeing.

These are just a few examples in which both of you have been instrumental in bringing to my attention that these topics (because they are very far from mainstream) must not and can not be discussed in any open forum because they are too valuable to let anybody have just because they ask for them.

The fact that Bramble is my critic does not bother me at all, in fact his criticisms are welcome. I will explain why. The fact of the matter is, that he helps to catalyse people into expressing opinions. I find many of these opinions very curious indeed, some of them very entertaining and funny, because that is all they are. That is why there is constant arguing going on all the time instead of constructive discussion. Constructive discussion is the consequence of being able to develop views, and not the result of having opinions.

I was not aware that these problems existed. The problems that individuals bring upon themselves as a consequence of having opinions instead of views did not cross my mind until it was brought home to me, sharply by students.

For this reason also I can thank my lucky stars that when I was still unaware of the problems caused by the misconceptions individuals are able to contaminate themselves with, I was prudent in only offerring ten levels of tuition instead of the whole lot, and to wait and see who was fit to be taken higher. I was not aware the general public has such great difficulties, not with the markets and what they deliver, but with itself, in general terms.

So I am not averse to Bramble being critical, and I am sorry if any member feels frustrated.
But my reluctance to take discussions further is the result of my experience gained in the past which is reinforced by exposure in this website.

With regard to the use of stops, there are three levels of proficiency in this regard. Their use is critical and imperative to traders, in fact the use of stops is mandatory to all but the most proficient. All tales of misery or failure are directly linked to dereliction of attention to stops in one way or another.

The first level of proficiency involves the automatic placement of a stop, as tight as possible. according to the ability of the trader to clock the move and execute timing and choose the most advantageous entry point. Beginners percieve themselves to be clumsy in this regard. These three enactments take time and repeated practice to perfect.

At the second level of proficiency, when all three enactments have been mastered, the trader is now in a postion to concentrate more fully on tightening the stop even further. This is also relative to a more developed awareness of the level of risk the scenario presented offers in reality. This has to do with experience.

At the third level of proficiency, when all three enactments have been totally mastered, and in addition, as a consequence of total familiarity with the instrument under consideration the risk element can be factored in seamlessly and in addition all the other elements that go into making a successful trade are in place, including price, volume, and intent, then the stop (or its physical placement rather) becomes academic. The stop is calculated and held in the mind and executed ruthlessly and instantaneousy if the outcome developing is the opposite of the one expected.

With regard to my trading, I never discuss it. The reason is that I would need to, "only if" I required the assistance of members to do it. As this is not the case, the case does not arise.

For this reason as you rightly say, nobody knows what I do, nearly nobody, that is.

In point of fact the age of electronic execution is a huge blessing most traders are unaware of, and this is because, when carefully protected and skilfully employed, it offers the kind of anonimity totally contrary to having to use other means. This is a huge advantange and is totally overlooked, plus it has the added bonus that it is extremely fast.

This is another area that puzzles me as to why so much effort is devoted to discussing the merits of one execution platform against another, endlessly, ad nauseam.

Kind Regards As Usual To You Both.
 
wisestguy said:
Another self appointed cheerleader . how boring.

I don't need to understand no profile to know, as you have admitted that soc doesn't use a SL.

that in my view is a loser . if that somehow offends your fantasy with him , then I'm sorry , I cannot account for hurt emotions.

I have an official statement from FinSpreads that I am in the top 20% of their clients .

would you like to shatter your own fantasies and see it ?

look who's the real trader now huh ?
Now read what I explain above about stops, and this is for your benefit.

I hope this makes it clear to you.

Don't scuttle off, we find you very entertaining and funny.

Huh indeed, Kind Regards,
 
nzbryant said:
I found a comment from db on Elitetrader:

"If traders trade to make money, then why do so few of them make money?"

I completely agree. I actually had a dream last night in which I was told "If you trade to make money you will fail, fail, fail." I woke up freaking out, and realised that of course - the desire to make money causes the emotional issues that cause traders to not observe correctly, and to not act correctly, in line with market behavior.

It is a complete paradox, but I believe that the desire to make money is what causes people to lose when trading.
All of this is obvious, and I agree with you absolutely.

In addition, you may not realise how close you are by using dream conclusions to reinforce reasoning, and how powerful the database of the subconscious mind is in lending energy to manifest what you intend, but you may not consciously be able to enact what is required through the expression of will on its own when in a fully conscious state, as a consequence of preventing yourself from doing it against your best attempts in this regard.
 
I am grateful to to you Dave because you have persuaded me to accept that discussions on websites such as this one are best restricted only to what is mainstream, meaning that which is in the public domain and is acceptable to members according to their frame of reference according to popular conscensus, which incidentally is not mine.
- That's a little unfortunate, and not the intent, but you're quite entitled to decide that... it struck me as significantly wrong of your critic to simply assume those who agreed with you must be sycophants.
Dave
 
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