Idiot's guide to trading

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Daz01

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OK i have been on and off this board for a little while now, never been serious as i have been very busy selling property in spain.......

But now i want in, so for all the guys and gals that know what they are talking about, where is the best place to start to learn.
I hear about spread betting
I here about day trading...I am a new born baby that wants to learn from the very beginning of life....so where do i start.

I have tried reading the previous posts, but there is a lot of tech and abreviations being used in what are, in a lot of your opinions basic posts.......i need very basic posts in that case.
And to the guys and gals that will say this is´nt for me, thanks but it IS and I WILL learn so dont waste your time posting a reply (of course unless you are going to be constructive)....I dont wish to be rude, but I will not be put off by anyone.
OH by the way. this board is great and once i know the basics i´m sure it will just heighten my knowledge.

Cheers
Daz
 
Daz there are no quick fixes
you are at the start of a long and difficult journey ,there is a lot to learn ,
go to your local library , and see what they have on trading
buy a few books and read and try to understand,
have a look at , COME TO MY TRADING ROOM, BY Dr Alexander Elder ( new edition )
good place to start
good luck
Hornblower
 
Thanks mate......yeah i agree, but i´m in no rush........slowly slowly catchy monkey...whatever the hell that means...lol
Thanks again

Daz
 
Thanks Jon

Obvioulsy i did´nt check well enough over old posts.......... mmm i better work on my eyes first

Daz
 
have a look at , COME TO MY TRADING ROOM, BY Dr Alexander Elder ( new edition )
Click to expand...

You can buy it off me if you like.

Never got on with it or any other trading book for that matter except for Murphy's TA book which I do like as a ready reference.
 
Well now Chicken...thats not a very healthy sales attitude now is it....lol
Thanks for the offer, but before i give you my answer can you tell me what you found wrong with it.....and how much

Cheers
Daz
 
In my opinion, you can read as many books and articles as you like and you will not be any closer to becoming a profitable trader. Think about it, every trader out there has read all the technical analysis books and yet they still can't make any money. Think about edge, about being a little innovative, try to come up with something someone else hasn't thought of. And don't waste any time paying for overpriced seminars by so-called gurus. Think about it, if they really had so much to offer why would they be giving glitzy seminars in skanky conference centres and not trading the markets themselves! This board has some useful info but a lot of it is total tosh. Just don't be sucked in by anything and if it sounds too good to be true then run a mile!

Just my two cents :)
 
We've all been in your shoes. No one is born knowing how to do this.
My experiance has been to learn by doing. My opinion is experiance is the BEST teacher. You can read books all day long, you're not going to "get it" until you DO IT.

Get yourself a practice account. Examine and try out systems other people are using and evolve them into your own system.

As far as forex guru's go there's only 2 i trust. I've learned and used their teachings with good results.
1. Aden Rusfeldt's Currency Trading Made Easy

2. Peter Bain's Forex Mentor

I'm more than sure you'll find either one very informative. If you want to jump right into trading try Aden's course as he teches specific trade set up's you can start using immediatly. I've used them myself and they work very well.
 
you can read as many books and articles as you like and you will not be any closer to becoming a profitable trader...................think about edge, about being a little innovative, try to come up with something someone else hasn't thought of...........
Click to expand...

Maybe by reading books you may get to know what everyone else has done, therefore this may get you closer to becoming a profitable trader as you can then be innovative and a little different.
 
Tuffty said:
Maybe by reading books you may get to know what everyone else has done, therefore this may get you closer to becoming a profitable trader as you can then be innovative and a little different.
Click to expand...

Why all this talk about finding something new/different?

I agree that sometimes a bit of innovation can be quite helpful. I certainly do my own fair share of research to that end. I disagree, though, with the notion that in order to be a profitable trader you have to do something different than other people. Actually, since so many people bomb out because they can't stick to a system, it seems to me that the best approach to trading success is just to do it better.

As for books being useless, I'll disagree there - to an extent. Yes, I'm talking my own book here (no pun intended), but there is a good deal of basic information which can be (should be?) gleaned from books. That's the foundational knowledge one needs to even contemplate taking on the markets. This is something experienced traders sometimes forget from their own past. Those just getting started, though, can easily be overwhelmed.

Beyond the foundational understanding, though, I'm a firm believer that experience is the big thing. Each trader needs to sort a lot of things out for themselves and that's hard to do without going through the process.
 
I disagree, though, with the notion that in order to be a profitable trader you have to do something different than other people
Click to expand...

Would depend if the 'other people' are profitable traders or not.

I agree that experience is most important. Does tend to cost money and time though.
 
Tuffty said:
Would depend if the 'other people' are profitable traders or not.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear.

When I was referring to doing things differently I was talking about using the same methods - the same type of analysis or position sizing strategy.

Obviously, if we're to believe that most traders perform poorly, you don't want to do what they do in a kind of macro sense. That failure, though, is likely to have more to do with implementation than some failure in the actual tools being used. That's why I said the focus should be on doing it better.
 
The key is understanding

Daz01 said:
OK i have been on and off this board for a little while now, never been serious as i have been very busy selling property in spain.......

But now i want in, so for all the guys and gals that know what they are talking about, where is the best place to start to learn.
I hear about spread betting
I here about day trading...I am a new born baby that wants to learn from the very beginning of life....so where do i start.

I have tried reading the previous posts, but there is a lot of tech and abreviations being used in what are, in a lot of your opinions basic posts.......i need very basic posts in that case.
And to the guys and gals that will say this is´nt for me, thanks but it IS and I WILL learn so dont waste your time posting a reply (of course unless you are going to be constructive)....I dont wish to be rude, but I will not be put off by anyone.
OH by the way. this board is great and once i know the basics i´m sure it will just heighten my knowledge.

Cheers
Daz
Click to expand...
Daz
The key is understanding rather than just following.

This has to start with gaining a certain amount of technical knowledge like most activities. Besides the free stuff you can get on this site and others, I always recommend 2 books as a starter. Both are relatively cheap and easy to get. Most trading books are notoriously expensive - the authors/publishers work on the assumption that if you can afford to risk your money in the markets you can easily afford their books.

The 2 basic books are:

- Technical analysis for dummies ISBN 0-7645-4044-0, which is about £16. This gives a basic introduction to TA
- Come into My Trading Room Dr Alexander Elder ISBN 0-471-22534-7. This gives information on the psychological side of trading and money management

Many brokers provide free demo accounts, especially forex, and software. This enables you to try out different brokers, get used to their trading platforms and do some graphing/analysis without having to pay anything to start with. They often have education pages/universities/webinars for you to learn more also free.

Avoid the guru training like the plague at first. At the best many do not provide any more information than you can find from the sources above and, at the worse, they just rip you off. Later when you have the ability to sort out the wheat from the chaff then you can consider whether you want to go on any training courses.

As I said, understanding is the key, so use the above plus maybe a small practice account using small buy and sell orders to gain experience. In particular look at price and volume (where it applies - difficult in forex). Try to work out what these say about the market.

Many people on this site do not use indicators. Indicators are a level removed from price and volume. If you want to explore them make sure you understand them thorougly, how they are calculated, how they are built up from Price and volume and what they are saying about the market. Many beginners are attracted by them because they seem to be simple to use - "If indicator A is greater than 0 then buy" kinda thing. Many think that the more indicators there are the better, or get confused by conflicting signals, so keep it simple.

Do not risk more than you feel comfortable losing.

Keep emotions out of your trading. The best way to do this is to stick rigidly to a system. There are some excellent templates for trading journals on this site that you can use and will provide you with a lot of guidance and personal questioning.

Good luck

Charlton




-
 
Hi Daz et al.
Perhaps I have not read carefully enough to understand what you see as your goal or indeed which market. Is it FX, shares or indices? No matter, the more important question to ask yourself is whether you have the time and stamina for short term trading or do you see trading as a way to a better return on your capital?

I have traded for several years and for the last 5 more or less full time. I guess I am like most here and trade purely on technical analysis. Again, like most, I started off with a basic charting package, Sharescope, and progressed through some reasonable and some hopeless "utopian" software packages.
One piece of advice, avoid at all costs any "black box" package. Many are very expensive and simply dont work in the long term. Yep, I have tried several.
Read and try to educate yourself but not without actually trading. Use an absolute minimum amount to start with. I personally find that trading live is more educational than paper trading as with the latter you tend to kid yourself that it is working! Sure, paper-trade to get the feel but dont jump in big until you see success on a macro scale.

Now we come to the question we all ask ourselves and all search continuously for: what TA works?
On any charting package you will see a huge number of indicators, if you invest in one of the major charting packages/data feeds, TradeStation, Metastock, eTrade etc you will then have access to hundreds, even thousands of indicators. Which one is the dilemma we all face.

I have tried many, some standard, some very expensive.

Recently I read a very good ebook by an outfit called www.lentrica.co.uk/. It is written in a very simple and relaxed style by a guy called Amin Sadak. OK, it is aimed at Forex but his take on TA is very good, he does not concentrate on explaining in depth how each indicator is derived (are we really interested?) he simply says that with such and such settings, they work. He also suggests what combination of indicators works and how to wait for indicators to confirm each other. He touches on candlestick patterns that work, again nothing complicated.

OK, I sound like a salesman, let me categorically state that I have nothing to do with Amin or his company but simply have read his work and found it helped my trading immensely! The methods he describes are equally applicable to the markets I trade, not just FX.

Finally, the most important of successful trading is money management, stop loss and the like, DO NOT neglect this vital area.

Good luck,
Dave
 
Daz01 said:
OK i have been on and off this board for a little while now, never been serious as i have been very busy selling property in spain.......

But now i want in, so for all the guys and gals that know what they are talking about, where is the best place to start to learn.
I hear about spread betting
I here about day trading...I am a new born baby that wants to learn from the very beginning of life....so where do i start.

I have tried reading the previous posts, but there is a lot of tech and abreviations being used in what are, in a lot of your opinions basic posts.......i need very basic posts in that case.
And to the guys and gals that will say this is´nt for me, thanks but it IS and I WILL learn so dont waste your time posting a reply (of course unless you are going to be constructive)....I dont wish to be rude, but I will not be put off by anyone.
OH by the way. this board is great and once i know the basics i´m sure it will just heighten my knowledge.

Cheers
Daz
Click to expand...

Hi Daz

We are always one click away from finding idiots guides to trading. And that's what they are in the main, books written by idiots for idiots. The industry for idiots guides in all fields of endeavour seems to grow each year to fuel the ever increasing desire to achieve the maximum returns with the minimum amount of effort. If you want a Mickey Mouse guide to trading then I fear you will end up in Disneyland. There is no short cut to trading successfully. As in any specialised profession it involves learning much technical jargon and new concepts (which can be discarded at a later date) as these are the tools and building blocks necessary to enter the arena and stand any chance of survival. The first book I ever read about trading was by Toni Turner and much of it was goobledy goop to me at the time. When I look at the book now it seems almost simplistic.
I suggest that you need to take action and decide for yourself that you are ready to embark on the journey and get going by finding your own way.
The second thing to organise is the learning process. Set yourself achievable goals on a weekly basis and revise your route frequently. The learning process takes hundreds of hours and hence it would be advantageous to set out a personal schedule (time management) to make the most of your time and still achieve a balanced life. Being an amateur is easy and enjoyable for some things but in this game, being an amateur means losing money and a lot more besides. So start out thinking like a pro and you may end up being one if that's what you really want!
Almost everything you need to know is available online and finding it and discarding or using it is part of the process I'm afraid. The rest will be learnt by actually trading real money in a real market.
Bon Voyage!
 
Euro_d said:
Hi Daz et al.
Perhaps I have not read carefully enough to understand what you see as your goal or indeed which market. Is it FX, shares or indices? No matter, the more important question to ask yourself is whether you have the time and stamina for short term trading or do you see trading as a way to a better return on your capital?

I have traded for several years and for the last 5 more or less full time. I guess I am like most here and trade purely on technical analysis. Again, like most, I started off with a basic charting package, Sharescope, and progressed through some reasonable and some hopeless "utopian" software packages.
One piece of advice, avoid at all costs any "black box" package. Many are very expensive and simply dont work in the long term. Yep, I have tried several.
Read and try to educate yourself but not without actually trading. Use an absolute minimum amount to start with. I personally find that trading live is more educational than paper trading as with the latter you tend to kid yourself that it is working! Sure, paper-trade to get the feel but dont jump in big until you see success on a macro scale.

Now we come to the question we all ask ourselves and all search continuously for: what TA works?
On any charting package you will see a huge number of indicators, if you invest in one of the major charting packages/data feeds, TradeStation, Metastock, eTrade etc you will then have access to hundreds, even thousands of indicators. Which one is the dilemma we all face.

I have tried many, some standard, some very expensive.

Recently I read a very good ebook by an outfit called www.lentrica.co.uk/. It is written in a very simple and relaxed style by a guy called Amin Sadak. OK, it is aimed at Forex but his take on TA is very good, he does not concentrate on explaining in depth how each indicator is derived (are we really interested?) he simply says that with such and such settings, they work. He also suggests what combination of indicators works and how to wait for indicators to confirm each other. He touches on candlestick patterns that work, again nothing complicated.

OK, I sound like a salesman, let me categorically state that I have nothing to do with Amin or his company but simply have read his work and found it helped my trading immensely! The methods he describes are equally applicable to the markets I trade, not just FX.

Finally, the most important of successful trading is money management, stop loss and the like, DO NOT neglect this vital area.

Good luck,
Dave
Click to expand...

Hello Dave,

Interestingly, this book was suggested on another forum site (which deals solely with Forex).

Consequently, can i ask what instruments you trade, in which timeframes and whether you feel the book would be beneficial for someone who trades UK stocks EOD?

I know the book is only a tenner but I'd rather not pay for more books if very little is going to be gleamed from it. For the record, I use solely TA in my trading decisions and have a reasonable knowledge of the different indicators around (having traded now for about 18mths) but I'm still struggling to know what indicators best go with each other and equally important in which timeframes they are best used!!

As a result, I seem to keep "swapping them around" which as you can imagine is no good for ones overall strategy. Ideally, I need a few which firstly compliment each other & secondly which work equally well in daily timeframes rather than just intraday.

Regards & Many Thanks in advance,

Chorlton
 
Chorlton said:
Hello Dave,

Interestingly, this book was suggested on another forum site (which deals solely with Forex).

Consequently, can i ask what instruments you trade, in which timeframes and whether you feel the book would be beneficial for someone who trades UK stocks EOD?

I know the book is only a tenner but I'd rather not pay for more books if very little is going to be gleamed from it. For the record, I use solely TA in my trading decisions and have a reasonable knowledge of the different indicators around (having traded now for about 18mths) but I'm still struggling to know what indicators best go with each other and equally important in which timeframes they are best used!!

As a result, I seem to keep "swapping them around" which as you can imagine is no good for ones overall strategy. Ideally, I need a few which firstly compliment each other & secondly which work equally well in daily timeframes rather than just intraday.

Regards & Many Thanks in advance,

Chorlton
Click to expand...

I rest my case. :cheesy:
 
Rols, a little over the top brutal IMHO. Not that I disagree with anything you say in your earlier post.
I believe that the thread title is bound to bring out inaaproriate comments from both those who make their living from trading and those thinking about embarking on a long, hard and painful route to sucess.

Chorlton, I trade the most volatile stocks in the FTSE 350 on a short (a few days) time frame and indices intraday. I am learning FX which I feel will suit my style and character better, pure TA and aggressive trading.

If you trade EoD using TA then yes Amin's book will throw light on what are probably grey areas. It is not comprehensive and will inevitably lead to yearning for more in depth knowledge.
IMHO, it is a very concise and well written introduction and what is more, highly practical.

Dave
 
rols said:
I rest my case. :cheesy:
Click to expand...

Rols,


Thanks for making me feel like the "guinea pig" with regard to your comments :( but to be fair you advice is spot-on!!!

My approach at the start was to read as many books, articles, forum threads, etc, etc as I could while at the same time SBetting small amounts so as to actually participate in trading.

The positive side to this was that as I learnt more, I could immediately apply it through SBetting. Paper trading has its place but IMO cannot be any alternative for the real thing. Paper Trading does not take into account the "hidden" sides of trading like, for instance, the emotional effect it has.

By trading for real however, I could appreciate this side as well while at the same time losing only small amounts of money - I chose Sbetting over conventional share trading as these companies offer introductory offers such as trading for 50p / point for example.

However, the downside to my approach was "information overload!!!" For every article I read, there would be another one contradicting what I had just learnt!!! In my 18mths of trading, I have gone from trying to find the ultimate indicator (which as we all know doesn't exist) to completely throwing away all indicators and trading price alone, only now to come back to investigating indicators once again. :eek:

Another point is that I have realised that the more I learn, the more I realise I don't know about this subject. :cry: But at the end of the day, I find the whole subject very enjoyable & fascinating so am happy to continue with this approach.

Regards,

Chorlton
 
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