How to unwind, especially after a busy day of trading?

[zeeuk]

Stevet, not TV - an in-house aaarse-hole! Called out NFP @ 44k instead of 144k, went out track and field and got badly burnt.

 

[donaldduke]

I thought the number came in below expectations so for that person to call even lower was in the
right direction?

 

[CityTrader]

I am a disciplined trader yet I have never been able to completely get away from getting wound up. Losing is part of the game, nobody wins all the time. I think anybody who trades everyday needs to be quite extraordinary if they never get wound up no matter what method they are using.
I was wound up for most of August, for me, it was a crappy month, actually the worst I have had in over 18. I would like to know, in these circumstances, how not to get "wound up".
I go to the Gym 4 times/week find spin and circuits do wonders for the endorphin levels, also try to get out a lot at weekends to get the adrenal glands going but this does not stop me from ever getting wound up. I I never ever struggle to sleep at night which is a result but more likely it is because I am always totally knackered by the time I crawl into the sack and always up at 5am.
Friday was one of the best days I have had in a long time and yet I still felt wound up a little because I missed a couple of trades dues to indecision and lack of balls.....Now that is actually far worse than getting wound up because you are having a bad run.
I also tried Yoga, Tai Chi , Meditation and Hash but none of these were successful in turning me into a centre of spiritual peace.
I have not met many or indeed any traders who do not get wound up in some way or other at times it is just that some are far more obvious in their wound upness than others. I used to work with a guy who would start screaming obscenities down the phone and smash things hard on his desk and then there was the guy who seemed cold as ice but jumped off a building one lunchtime. I just accept it as part of the deal. Still wouldn't want to do anything else for my living.

Well sounds like we were trading the same crap! I had a ****yy August also, but a dramatically better week last week- all be it only 4 days long! In fact probably one of my best weeks in a long time- all my medium term trades came good ( positions like Monterico which I've held for over 2 months now) and all my short term ( 1-2 day) trades also worked out. BUT after way too many years of trading, I still get wound up by crappy trades, losing money where I shouldn't have, and I also get a fantastic high after weeks like last week. Don't fight it Twalker- it's part of your make up. Without it, you;d probably be a lousy trader.... ( FWIW, after 18 years in The City, never saw a trader yet who didn't lose it in one form or another when " doing their 'nads" )

 

[Naz]

I like the Steve Davis quote when he was asked how he copes with playing big finals when under lots of pressure. He said the trick is.."to play as if it means nothing when it means everything". I think that applies to trading. You have to trade as if it means nothing when it means everything.

I think a lot of us could learn something from this.

 

[TRADERguy]

Stevet, not TV - an in-house aaarse-hole! Called out NFP @ 44k instead of 144k, went out track and field and got badly burnt.

Please do tell, which house?

 

[JTrader]

To serve as a quick reminder -

To quote Livermore – “A loss never bothers me after I take it. I forget it overnight. But being wrong - not taking a loss - that is what does damage to the pocketbook and to the soul.”

I could not agree more. Losing trades are part and parcel of trading, however, letting small losing trades become bigger losing trades really can be damaging and is inexcusable.

 

[JTrader]

This is sort of connected to the notion of unwinding after trading/preparation. I find that I benefit from getting up in plenty of time before i start trading (work). I may go outside, post a letter, peg the washing out etc. etc.

This gives me the feeling of having to do something before I make my journey to 'work' - i.e. get my circulation working.

If I role out of bed and crawl into the spare bedroom ten minutes before I am due to start trading i often do not feel phsically or mentally alert. By doing something of a slightly physical/semi-physical nature in a morning before commencing trading, I feel stronger physically and mentally.

 

[jj777]

Unwinding

Everything I read indicates that doing something aerobic is tremendously helpful. Personally, I walk at a brisque pace for 20 minutes or so and when I start breathing deeply, I know Im there. None of this athletic stuff thanks!. Its interesting that the psych books talk about the need for traders to allocate a specific time for excercise so that you consistently identify your need to unwind. I do this and I think it helps. I see it as part of the work day to cleanse the debris between my ears.

I know there are many traders who meditate, do karate, cycle 20 miles.......well I just can't get to that level of commitment. There is also a need to avoid excessive alchol, hash, benzodiazepines, SSRIs, and a s...load of other dependency chemicals. NOT TO MENTION SMOKING and I am a very bad example!!!!

Well...was Livermoor perfect? ;-)

jj777

 

[JJL3142]

JJ

Jesse Livermoore, in my opinion was a manic depressive, he often would go missing for days regularly - however this was due to his personal relationships (he had a thing for young showgirls) more than his trading losses (heck people forget when how many times he won and lost everything - e.g. he made $3m and by listening to percy (the cotton king) lost $2.7m and he kicked himself for breaking his rules).

 

[stevet]

unwind due to trading? - trading is how you unwind from any other **** around you!

 

[clylbw]

Hi jj777,

It seems we have got similar approaches. I also get up in plenty of time before the market opens and do exercises so that I am refreshed for the day ahead.

As for unwinding after the day, I am trying a new way: cooking. After the market has closed and I have done my analysis for the day and my plan for the next day, I will take quite a bit of time to cook a meal for myself. It is working fine now as I am really fed up with the prepared food in the supermarket. The only downfall is, since I trade the US market, I often find myself not to have dinner until around midnight. Well, win some, lose some, I suppose.

 

[TWI]

BeachRunner wrote: Twalker, hate to say it, but it is heartening to read that such an erudite (I've read your posts, man) and experienced trader has had to resort to hash (a term of reference that I'm assuming is the Hash House Harriers).

Most definitely HHH "OnOn!"
Been Hashing all over the Globe.

 

[Beach Runner]

twalker wrote: Most definitely HHH "OnOn!"
Been Hashing all over the Globe.


Ah, the alcoholic way to aerobic fitness! Let's give them a plug:

http://www.gthhh.com/

I came across this in 'Where Are the Customers' Yachts?' by Fred Schwed, Jr:

"Don't smoke opium on the floor during trading hours."

Obviously it must be advisable after hours; I'm very keen to try it. Any former locals or others with tips?

 

[Thirteen]

twalker wrote: Most definitely HHH "OnOn!"
Been Hashing all over the Globe.


Ah, the alcoholic way to aerobic fitness! Let's give them a plug:

http://www.gthhh.com/

I came across this in 'Where Are the Customers' Yachts?' by Fred Schwed, Jr:

"Don't smoke opium on the floor during trading hours."

Obviously it must be advisable after hours; I'm very keen to try it. Any former locals or others with tips?

a buddy of mine used to work on a floor in apit. he said on a friday afternoon after the close when the floor was empty, you could have opened a back street pharmacy with all the wraps dropped


rave on

 

[euroderivatives]

If you go jogging or do aerobics in the evening, you won't fall asleep. That kind of exercise wakes your body up.
Try taking Kendo lessons, it is a japanese sword fighting technique and it requires 100% concentration and discipline. It will clear your head and through the exercises your body and mind will become very disciplined.
Drinking alcohol and smoking hash? That definitely knocks off your concentration long term!!! I wouldn't want to miss a trade because lack of concentration, I can't afford that.

 

[clylbw]

Try taking Kendo lessons, it is a Japanese sword fighting technique and it requires 100% concentration and discipline. It will clear your head and through the exercises your body and mind will become very disciplined.

Thanks euroderivatives.

I was thinking about learning something like that; the problem is, most of the course I can find here are for weekday evenings. As I trade the US market, I cannot afford to take several evenings off each week.

 

[euroderivatives]

Kendo lessons are usually once a week.........so you need to train once a week.

 

[Bigbusiness]

I bought this book about Tai Chi a few years ago. I used to do the exercises every day but I have lapsed recently. The book gets mixed reviews but I found the basic concept made it easy to follow. Kendo looks like fun but I could be dangerous with a sword in my hands after a bad day

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...672/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-8944957-7591848

Last year I bought a good exercise bike and I find 10 minutes going flat out on that gets rid of any stress.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Hi Lynn,
We have both an excellent Chinese restaurant and an Indian one nearby and they are happy to deliver to us. You could order at 8.30 and be eating when the market closes.
I find sipping Jasmine tea helps take me out of my trading mode, but normally I can just switch off without any effort - but that is just experience.
I also have an exercise machine in my study, but frankly I need to be on it a lot more. Sitting at a machine or coaching for hours is not good for weight.
Best wishes,
Richard

 

[clylbw]

Thank you.

Hi Richard,

Wish you great success at the Traders Symposium 2004.

I think I would prefer to cook myself, even if I am no magic cook. No offence, but most 'Chinese' food here is not really Chinese.