How to make 100%

[4xpipcounter]

You got it, Glyder! This will also go a lot deeper than the ichimoku cloud. Wait for the next nugget! Thank-you!

Hey 4X Pip, I tihnk plenty here are goingto be interested to hear more. At the very least this ichimooku system is new to me, so having some knowledge about it will be good.

Although, I have to say, did you really think it would be so easy to put any system up, esp one without stops, and not get some criticisms.
Everything gets criticised here, you have to learn to live with it.
Kind of part of what I meant (post 44) when I said earlier that baring your system here takes a lot.
You have to work out which criticisms / questioners are worth responding to for yourself and ignore time wasters. There will be interested appreciative readers out there. But they will very often be drowned out by critics. Its the nature of these forums. You have to decide not to let it get you down.
Anyway I think you should continue for so long as your own motives are still valid.

Some may skeptical of why I am doing this. I've been trading for 6 years. I haven't had a losing month in 3 years, and one losing week in 3 years. I do not ever wanted to take that for granted. What I know becomes reinforced through simple discussion. I can't talk to much to my wife about. She gets bored (She doesn't get bored wehn I cash my pips in for real dollars, though.). I can't talk to Tucker about it. He'll listen, but he doesn't really understand (That's his picture in the avatar.). Therefore, what better audience to have than ones that share my same interest. In essence, the selfish intent and motive is I become a better trader. Also, and honestly, I get lots of e-mails and PM's from people that have benefitted. I never seek for a pat on the back, but it sure feels good when someone else has been benefitted.

 

[Martinghoul]

4x, I am happy to give you the benefit of doubt, you know that... I am extremely skeptical, which you're also aware of. However, like others here, I would appreciate a bit more clarity and focus in your posts. I think it would make things a lot easier and I'd be the first to admit that my skepticism was unfounded.

So in the interest of clarity, what say you to a suggestion that we make things a bit more understandable? I propose that we separate your longer methodology/descriptive posts from the actual trade recommendations/forecasts posts. This way I can understand what's going on a lot better.

 

[4xpipcounter]

One last time. That was an exception to the rule. I'm sure you understand what that means.

As far as our different views are concerned, I wasn't asking your opinion. I don't care about oyur opinion. I'm not here in this thread to discuss opinions. I'm here to help anyone interested to make lots of money.

Let me correct something else. I don't discuss my gains to brag. I discuss them so anyone can have an idea of the potential to properly having a circumspect methodology. When you're good, you don't need to brag. You just produce, and I am hoping a few others become the benefactor.

I don't like having to highlight individual trades as we know it's about the net result over hundreds of trades. However...you keep mentioning this trade that caused a 60/70% account drawdown, and then coming out 28% ahead, as if this is a good thing, when in reality you posted account gains which were a fraction of what you were down on. This in my opinion is nothing to brag about, infact the complete opposite.

Also, it only happening once is all it takes, like whenever it did for you. If at any stage you have to top up your trading account due to a couple positions putting you in a 60/70% drawdown, your money management needs serious attention. You should never need to top up your trading account with other funds if your methodology and money management is sound. Your money management is not robust enough in my view.





We obviously have different views over the 'anything can happen' belief in the markets, and a common ground won't be reached, but i know what i do works, and good luck in your efforts if yours work for you.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Thanks, Hari. I also got your PM.

BTW, Hari, you've known me for about 5 years. We are going to have a venture outside of my methodlogy. This is not baout me, but ideas, tibits, and lots of nuggets. We will go forward. The next nugget will be tomorrow.

Hi paul.

some of your words in the first post----

"As I progress through this thread, I hope to make show how obviously important that at least a conceptual knowledge of how trends work and how deviations from the mean of the trend will abet the trader in the understanding"

"It is also my desire to abet the interests of anyone wanting to take their trading to the next level. There will be a bunch of great lessons on this thread, and all free of charge"

"It helps in seeing the simplicity there is in trading, but the work that is needed to get to the point in seeing it for self."

Purpose of the new thread you started is how understanding few important tit bits will improve the knowledge and increase the confidence of profiting from the market. so
from your experience what u want to give to the newbies is important

so i request you starting moving to the next point

(Here putting/not putting stop loss, what percentage of mm needed, how much you lost is not important that is the last part when people want to earn as like u)

 

[4xpipcounter]

Enalmada, I'm flattered by your support. I see this is your 1st post. For your benefit and the others, we will continue.

I don't want to ignore comments. It is not my style. But, this thread will not get derailed anymore. There will be a ton of excellent information for you to seek your teeth into.

Thank you for taking the time to share. For every nonsense post there are a lot of people that are interested and learning from your points. Please don't let trolls and negative nancys stop you from accomplishing the goal you started with. You couldnt have gotten where you are if you listened to them in the past and i see no reason to let them stop you now. I highly recommend ignoring all comments and tuning out the noise until you have completed what you started.

 

[Hoggums]

If you want to stop all of the criticism, then post some live calls, followed by your reasoning and method, then we can all judge for ourselves.

I'm with Martinghoul, I'm willing to hear you out, but skeptical.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Evenidently, you also either didn't read everything (Reread that last word.) about the totality of margin management, or you are willingly ignorant. Regardless, if you want to get the whole picture, go back and read my posts only, and disregard the garbage. Afterward, you can progress forward in Advanced Trading 101, and make lots of money. Your choice.

Well these "negative nancys" as you have called them have identified that the only reason the claimed percentage gains have been made is as a result of big risks being made with trading capital, with a 70% drawdown being mentioned. The actual strategies used are part of the picture of course but ignore the money management issues at your peril. If you risk 10% or more of your trading capital on a single trade you will get wiped out at some point. The particular combination of moving averages / stochastics that you employed while your account was emptied is not that relevant.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Lencoo, better words could not have been spoken. As far as what I am "starting" with. I am already into my trading career of 6 years and 3 years of unaldulterated success. In the last 3 years, I have had no losing months, one losing week, and one losing trade in the last 6 weeks.

10% is the exact margin I use on every single trade. In other words 1 standard lot per $10,000, 10 lots per jumbo lot. The margining will change as of Oct. 18th. That is when the maximum leverage gets reduced to 50:1. I'll advise when I cross the road.

Pardon me , Lenoco, this part has nothing to do with you. It doesn't matter if the punks are impressed. No one needs to be. Someone already said to keep an open mind. That's all you need.

Keep an open mind.

4x, how will this work, will you start off with an account balance e.g. £10k and tell us how much you're staking on each position?

 

[tomorton]

For myself 4x, what I meant was that 28% on a single trade might be good or it might be rubbish. It sounds good subjectively (in fact it sounds excellent), but the only objective information in the market is price. You would portray a stronger picture of your abilities if you stick to objective data.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Tomorton, maybe you trade futures and it is handled differently. Refer to post #120.

The only time that % would be tainted is when backup funds would have to be used.

Chaps - There is widespread confusion about % gains and % risk. The key thing with anybody's % statement, such as I have made 28%, is 28% of what?

Over an extended period, most people talk about net % gain to their total trading funds. But over a single trade, % gain can be based on initial capital staked, or % price change after entry, or % gain to total account: % risk is usually a statement based on total trading funds, but could equally be % price change since entry or % drawdown of initial capital staked.

Making 28% on total trading funds in one trade suggests incredible risk: to stick to the max. 2% of account at risk per trade rule, this would suggest a r:r ratio of at least 1:14 - I don't know of any strategy that could set out with this objective.

But making 28% on initial capital staked in a single trade doesn't mean a thing to me, actual monetary gain from a trade depends on too many money management criteria and options: but I would be interested in % price change after entry.

 

[Scotty2Cues]

If you want to stop all of the criticism, then post some live calls, followed by your reasoning and method, then we can all judge for ourselves.

I'm with Martinghoul, I'm willing to hear you out, but skeptical.

this!

 

[4xpipcounter]

Sorry Splitlink. you're wrong. Most are that way. You should know by now I could care less what anyone thinks, because my success speaks for itself, without needing any props.

I'll say this too. I know I come across as one cocky egomaniac, and all I do is spend time boasting about gains. I do it to exploit the potential in this industry, not to brag on me. The gullbile need not worry. My hand is not in their back pocket, because they could never pay me what I'm worth. Keep an open mind, and then do with the information as you wish (Blanket statement there. Not personal.).

I suggest that those who boast percentage gains in that way are only trying to impress the gullible.

 

[Shanghai]

Evenidently, you also either didn't read everything (Reread that last word.) about the totality of margin management, or you are willingly ignorant. Regardless, if you want to get the whole picture, go back and read my posts only, and disregard the garbage. Afterward, you can progress forward in Advanced Trading 101, and make lots of money. Your choice.

OK so three simple questions for you:

1. How much of your total trading capital do you risk on each trade?

2. What is the maximum drawdown you have experienced as a percentage of your trading acount plus reserve funds?

3. What is your average gain in percentage terms per month of your trading account plus your reserve funds?

And incidentally I'm quite happy with the money I am making since you mention it. I make between 30 and 60% per year on a six figure account risking one percent per trade.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Hey Hoggums! Read post #134 so I don't have to repeat myself.

In a specific response to #2, my inflated (not misplaced) ego will get messaged when my mission gets accomplished. Just a few becoming benefactors.

The truly humbling part is #3. My trading and methodology has evolved in no small part wiht my association with others. I gleaned many good ideas and nuggets from others. Sincerely, I am trying to return the favor. Let me be the Samurai. You won't regret it.

Spot on split.

In general there are 3 reasons why people boast about how good they are and try to impart their knowledge.

1. They are selling something
2. They are massaging their over inflated but misplaced ego
3. They are making a genuine attempt at helping others after being helped themselves at the start

I'd say minimum 95% fall into categories 1 & 2.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Truer words could not have been said, Prawnsandwich. That is all about to change.

You're also right. I made plenty of claims. It will be this thread they will all get backed up. I'm moving forward once I get through all these responses.

Even leaving aside the above, there is no knowledge being imparted here...a huge amount of text, but nothing substantive backing up his claims...anyone can come on and claim x% gains..

Hopefully I will be proved wrong and something interesting may be provided..but it is far more likely the thread will drag on and on and on, loads of BS but nothing substantive...

 

[4xpipcounter]

BS, that's Wirraltraders you are talking about, who incidentally, is an excellent trader, so give him all the credit and respect he is due.

Don't go accusing me of having my hand in someone's back pocket. That ain't happening here. You nor anyone else can afford me.

WT, that comment wass not meant to disparage you. It's the losers that got nothing better to do with their time that make up a lot of garbage, like me leading someone on.

I'd suggest it's close on 100% in the first category. Are they too late? Perhaps. Given that the Jackos and James16s of the trading world have done it, been there, sold the snide t-shirt and moved on, the party may be over...but plenty will try and fill that gap.

The basic premis is always the same; start a thread with a point of difference FREE, get sticky eye balls FREE, keep on posting 'successful' trades FREE; which may be in fact be shadow trades (on a demo account) looking over the shoulder of a "colleague".

At first casually mention tutoring, twitter, name dropping, copy and paste a few clever lines whilst building an online aura. Fill up the gullible contact list, you're after part time traders who have given it a go, now struggling, looking for a trading buddy and the grail for 100 quid a month.

Then steadily market to them direct using the afore mentioned twit account and your valuable pm feature and the friends list/following you've built up. There should be up to 50 contacts in no time, that's potentially 5 grand a month for offering "help"....bless..

After you've got a mate to knock up a 300 quid website with free 'voip' access you're up and running and it's a biz started from nothing.. More than a 100% return that...

 

[4xpipcounter]

You got it Lurker. Thanks for the recco, Rossini. We will move forward.

Can we have a separate thread for queries and keep this one for theory and thoughts by OP?

 

[wirraltraders]

I'd suggest it's close on 100% in the first category. Are they too late? Perhaps. Given that the Jackos and James16s of the trading world have done it, been there, sold the snide t-shirt and moved on, the party may be over...but plenty will try and fill that gap.

The basic premis is always the same; start a thread with a point of difference FREE, get sticky eye balls FREE, keep on posting 'successful' trades FREE; which may be in fact be shadow trades (on a demo account) looking over the shoulder of a "colleague".

At first casually mention tutoring, twitter, name dropping, copy and paste a few clever lines whilst building an online aura. Fill up the gullible contact list, you're after part time traders who have given it a go, now struggling, looking for a trading buddy and the grail for 100 quid a month.

Then steadily market to them direct using the afore mentioned twit account and your valuable pm feature and the friends list/following you've built up. There should be up to 50 contacts in no time, that's potentially 5 grand a month for offering "help"....bless..

After you've got a mate to knock up a 300 quid website with free 'voip' access you're up and running and it's a biz started from nothing.. More than a 100% return that...

Here we go again. I can tell you that 4xpip is not selling anything. He is merely trying to help others (like yourself) make some money trading. I may not agree with everthing he says and especially his use of stops or rather lack of it, but you know what?, he's having a go and putting himself out there - and all power to him..

However, as usual a good 2/3 of your latest negative rant is thinly disguised as being about me and my live trades blog et al. As usual though, it reveals much more about yourself than explains the actions or intentions of others.

I've finished trading for the day and the week and this is my relax time, my fun time and one of my favourite sports is winding you up. And my God, don't you just deserve it.

I am "selling something". I have Vendor's badge. I trade for my retirement which I require to be extremely comfortable and in the meanwhile I work for a living doing amongst other things teaching trading. I have never taught a "newbie" only usually people with 3 -6 years experience. I do not sell signals. So sue me. Get over it - and for God's sake man - get a life! Who gives a sh*t? Well obviously you for one - again and again and again...

I know that you also think of yourself as some kind of Marketing wiz and SEO specialist with your 50k hits per day etc etc and this is currently your main claim to fame. But let me tell you, that there are are others here who have been there too and are wearing the T shirt. In 1998 I discovered that by registering a domain name with dashes in between generic words, it would probably get to No 1 in Yahoo (no Google then) for my chosen business at the time. It did and the entire World beat a path to my door to register their domain names through my Company. You were probably in the 6th form listening to some angsty twaddle at the time.. And when I was placing trades with my broker in 1978, you probably weren't even born.. And by the way if you were listening to Oasis, as the aformentioned angsty twaddle, then that first album was recorded in my Studio in between the two brothers kicking the sh*t out of each other every day.

4xpipx reminds me of when I used to trade oil about 10 years ago without a stop. One week I would make 5000k, the next I would lose 3.5k until eventually I lost 1/2 my account once in just 20 mins. After that I started using stops. But what the hell, hes a great Trader, we need more like him here as an antidote to people like you.

Below is the Traders Mantra filched I think from a post by Meanrevision who nicked it from somewhere else on the Internet. All of us will recognise ourslelves here. The question is which number are you?

38 steps to becoming a trader --

1. We accumulate information - buying books, going to seminars and researching.
2. We begin to trade with our 'new' knowledge.
3. We consistently 'donate' and then realize we may need more knowledge or information.
4. We accumulate more information.
5. We switch the commodities we are currently following.
6. We go back into the market and trade with our 'updated' knowledge.
7. We get 'beat up' again and begin to lose some of our confidence.

Fear starts setting in.

8. We start to listen to 'outside news' and to other traders.
9. We go back into the market and continue to 'donate'.
10. We switch commodities again.
11. We search for more information.
12. We go back into the market and start to see a little progress.
13. We get 'over-confident' and the market humbles us.
14. We start to understand that trading successfully is going to take more time and more knowledge than we anticipated.

Most people will give up at this point, as they realize work is involved.

15. We get serious and start concentrating on learning a 'real' methodology.
16. We trade our methodology with some success, but realize that something is missing.
17. We begin to understand the need for having rules to apply our methodology.
18. We take a sabbatical from trading to develop and research our trading rules.
19. We start trading again, this time with rules and find some success, but over all we still hesitate when it comes time to execute.
20. We add, subtract and modify rules as we see a need to be more proficient with our rules.
21. We feel we are very close to crossing that threshold of successful trading.
22. We start to take responsibility for our trading results as we understand that our success is in us, not the methodology.
23. We continue to trade and become more proficient with our methodology and our rules.
24. As we trade we still have a tendency to violate our rules and our results are still erratic.
25. We know we are close.
26. We go back and research our rules.
27. We build the confidence in our rules and go back into the market and trade.
28. Our trading results are getting better, but we are still hesitating in executing our rules.
29. We now see the importance of following our rules as we see the results of our trades when we don't follow the rules.
30. We begin to see that our lack of success is within us (a lack of discipline in following the rules because of some kind of fear), and we begin to work on knowing ourselves better.
31. We continue to trade and the market teaches us more and more about ourselves.
32. We master our methodology and our trading rules.
33. We begin to consistently make money.
34. We get a little over-confident and the market humbles us.
35. We continue to learn our lessons.
36. We stop thinking and allow our rules to trade for us (trading becomes boring, but successful) and our trading account continues to grow as we increase our contract size.
37. We are making more money than we ever dreamed possible.
38. We go on with our lives and accomplish many of the goals we had always dreamed of.

 

[mcclaine]

Enough drama everyone - can we just get on with it, or not, as the case may be.

All those who have read the first few (tens of!) pages now undertand the risk in the mm aspect of this strategy.

(i) One really bad trade and the account could be bust.

(ii) OP states he has never experienced this, although he has experienced significant drawdowns which finally resulted in some gain.

(iii) OP's past performance (to the extent it is accurate) is no guarantee of his future returns (i.e. it is always possible that he could experience the one really bad trade which wipes out his account, although for his sake I hope this never happens).

We get it. Debate over. Lesson Learned. No need to rehash. Let us move on.

Thank you.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Oohnearly, please read post #125, 2nd paragraph.

Also, stay focused on my threads when the nuggets restart. Ignore the losers and the detractors that will probbaly continue to make their appearnces in this thread. I'm telling you unabashedly, take your portion of the tidbits and nuggets, and you will make a mint.

I see you are new to this site, so I also ask you to ignore all the losers that accuse me of an ulterior motive. They're the miserable lot that wants to beleive they have no control over the markets. They're the ones that want to believe there is nothnig but randomness in the markets, and that only the rich move the markets. Those are the ones to ignore, because all they have to spue out is their losers' mentality.

As a plug, check out Wiralltrader's thread and JahDave's. They make money! That iswhat this is all about. Check out MetalsTrader's posts. He wins 90% of the time. That just gripes the losers on this site. They want to call it a "magic formula". They predcit the winnerss "day is coming". Stay tuned, my friend. Contrary to the losers on here, I am spilling all the beans, and then I'm going to retire and enjoy the rest of my life--just my wife, Tucker, and me.

Any chance he can spell out how to make 100% first, then
pour scorn afterwards?

The OP obviously wasn't expecting to have to get into a firefight involving definitions of what his percentages meant. But some of the queries were valid, some were overly picky and some were a tad insulting. Save to say that 4X, if he's going to continue, probably needs to be both careful and consistent when he uses percentages. So, for example, does 28% mean 28% of the entire account balance or 28% of something else? It doesn't matter what, just so long as the percentage quotes are consistent. It's no good inter-changing and assuming your audience "must" know what you meant if you had deviated, even only slightly, from your usual definition.

To be of any use a system has to give a good indication of where it's safe to enter, in terms of high probability. (I know, stating the obvious! But it's surprising, or perhaps not, that this part of people's systems tend to be vague at best and just weak, period.)