How Do DayTraders Make Money in the Futures Market?

[mechanicaldaytrader]

it takes "guts" to be a daytrader..some don't have it..

It takes "balls" to daytrade. These men mentioned below "had it". I grew up around them, but am nowhere near their stature. I admire their example. Take a read - visit the links when you have time - the town I grew up in as a kid would not exist except for these kind of men. I'm very thankful for them.

Three links of some hometown heroes that I grew up around are below. I was raised in Fremont, Ohio. There is a 25 acre park in this town of 20,000 of President Hayes. Yup, an American President was from my hometown.

There was Fort Stephenson on the bank of Sandusky River - THE battle that ended the northern campaign of the War of 1812 was fought there...160 guys in a Fort held off about 3000. Yup, my little hometown..pretty important, huh?

I write this post to give you an indication of the kind of people that influenced my childhood. I am nowhere near President Hayes, Col Groghan or Roger Young's stature...and never will be...I am deeply humbled to have known these great men ...with apologies to the Brits here, I am proud of these Americans and their sacrifice so I could enjoy my childhood in a sleepy farm town in Ohio.

Roger Young..a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient during WWII came from Clyde Ohio - 6 miles from Fremont. I grew up playing and swimming (I was a slow "competitive swimmer" in AAU) at Roger Young Park. Read about how Roger Young demonstrated leadership, courage, bravery.

Read about Col. Groghan...a guy with a law degree...born with a silver spoon...instead he enlisted in the Army as a PRIVATE and displayed leadership, courage, bravery and an unwillingness to give up (again my apologies to the Brits). Amazing.

Anyhow, the trivial issues of the day (this thread) pale in comparison to what these men did to help shape me and those around me.

Stuart
The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[vrtrop22b]

Stuart, you are a scammer and an exposed one at that. No one can succeed using your "methodology". Please introduce the world to any student that you have trained that is making 100k+ on this system. It is going on 4+ years now. There must be something pathological about you to sit there and scam people then project some kind of sanctimonious honor system. Oh and didn't you say you were from Michigan? Now it's Ohio? I wish some script kiddies would take your site down completely. The question I have is how in the hell do you make money from this scheme at this point. Who are the people still giving you their money?

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

Stuart, you are a scammer and an exposed one at that. No one can succeed using your "methodology". Please introduce the world to any student that you have trained that is making 100k+ on this system. It is going on 4+ years now. There must be something pathological about you to sit there and scam people then project some kind of sanctimonious honor system. Oh and didn't you say you were from Michigan? Now it's Ohio? I wish some script kiddies would take your site down completely. The question I have is how in the hell do you make money from this scheme at this point. Who are the people still giving you their money?

childhood in Ohio...high school/college in Michigan....always rooted for U of M and the Detroit Tigers even when I lived in Ohio since Mom always listened to WJR. Ain't no jobs in Fremont, family moved to Motown burbs so I could work and go to college.

PayPal has a refund procedure for anyone that proves that were scammed. There have been no refunds, no debits...ergo, no scam. Students need to replicate past trades then take 'em as they come. Now that I'm done programming (it's been 12 months plus plus tons of time training studens) daily statements will be posted on the website "trade journal". The DayRaider 2.2 screen prints of filled orders & the broker's screen print of all fills will be posted as well (each day). I'll trade part time, probably 2 or 3 round turns per day, depending on how much training I'm doing. A CPA will audit the monthly statement. I'll be on vaca for about 2 weeks in August.


Stuart

 

[vrtrop22b]

Okay Stuart, I will ask this one final time. You are now in this 4+ years that I know of. Possibly longer. Can you point to one student that you have "trained" that is making 6 figures minimum trading YOUR methodology. Not paper trading, not getting their sea legs. Can you point to one person making the kind of money you guarantee on your website.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

Just had a thought...ANYONE that says I am a scam artist I have the following challenge:

pick any 5 dow trading days in a row
meet with me via WebEx with your REAL NAME and real email address
I will prove the One Minute Methodology works with only THREE Dow Behaviors (time rule, price rule, trend rule)
I will prove 500 Mini Dow points in 5 days
I will prove Kindergarten Trades

The WebEx video will be recorded (audio and desktop) and uploaded to YouTube.com for the World to see.

I will then document that you made a false allegation to me and it will be in Google forever and ever...

Don't make allegations you can't back up.

The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

Okay Stuart, I will ask this one final time. You are now in this 4+ years that I know of. Possibly longer. Can you point to one student that you have "trained" that is making 6 figures minimum trading YOUR methodology. Not paper trading, not getting their sea legs. Can you point to one person making the kind of money you guarantee on your website.

how much they make is not my business, but send me an email, I will forward it to several that trade using my snake oil. Just let me know if/when you get a response and who sent it.

The logic is overwhelming and the trading rules are simple...it' s not fault some can't handle 5th grade math. I mean this is ONLY X & Y guys! The ability to backtest the methodology is key - hell, I'll even give a 48 hour moneyback guaratee on Module I & II -- prove it doesn't work and PayPal will give you a 100% refund, they even refund their commission they charge me, last time I saw it on their website.

Stuart

 

[vrtrop22b]

Uh can't you just post your trade log for today showing all the YM points that you have picked up? Why does it have to be some elaborate dance. I'm not the smartest guy but since you are the one selling the methodology and since it has obviously been back tested by you, why not get your students from the last few years making the serious $$$ on here to defend your honor. Since obviously we malcontents were to dumb to do the "homework", bring on your MIT guys that have learned your methodology down cold and are living the dream. Oh that's right ....... they don't exist. Seriously, Stuart do you have actual students paying you right now? I am shocked/mortified if you do. If you do, I need to get into the scam business myself. I learned just about everything I need to know from you.

 

[Scammedbystuart]

Vtrop

There is no one making that.
Yes it can be proved in hindsight but applying it practically is near impossible.

Anybody got any popcorn?
Few more posts on my blog.
Your business is D.O.A Mr Kidney, so it should be.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

guess you don't know as much as you think you do...100% retracements + positive / negative deviation are 100% objective and are as easily called real time as they are historically.

You agreed with Ken that this is a scam. back it up. And you hide behind a screen name. You're chicken.

recent dow cash screenshot with the trading rules you learned

you'll just have to wait for the trading statements ...and you're CHICKEN. Prove the allegation or retract it..be a man...not a wimp.

SK

 

[vrtrop22b]

That screen shot means nothing to me or anyone else. Look, I don't hate you personally. I, with true conviction, believe that what you are selling doesn't work as you claim it to. Why don't you stop this "system" selling nonsense and do some legitimate good. I think you do a decent job at helping newbies learn the basics of futures i.e. basic terms, chart formations, candle sticks, etc. Your methodology imho doesn't work. I know that you know this as well. There has got to be a better way for you to earn money than doing this.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

thx for the advice...lol...

If you can't grasp that chart then imo you have no business daytrading either! lol

this will be my last post on this thread for the time being..check the website in a week for the trade journal entries. You don't know the Dow Behaviors (they were promulgated in 2008); Kindergarten Trades were developed in late 2008.

So, be careful in giving advice to strangers cuz you don't know of what you speak. Ken the spam-man-blog never even learned the methodology - 5 pages of big type and color pictures...geeze that's real hard dude. So the guys throwing arrows don't know what they speak of and they will not prove it. Typical online behavior, imo.

Happy Fourth of July to all the Americans, don't mean to rub it in for the Brits!

Stuart

 

[vrtrop22b]

No, thank you for the advice. What I mean is that anyone can take a screen shot of a chart then put arrows on it, right? Did you place documented trades where your arrows are? This gets old, so I will sum it up: THIS CRAP DOESN'T WORK. NO ONE IS USING IT AND MAKING MONEY OFF OF IT. WHAT IS THE POINT OF GIVING STUART YOUR MONEY IF THIS CRAP DOESN'T WORK!!!!

 

[trader_dante]

Who are the people still giving you their money?

The ones that live in hope.

 

[Claudia123]

No, thank you for the advice. What I mean is that anyone can take a screen shot of a chart then put arrows on it, right? Did you place documented trades where your arrows are? This gets old, so I will sum it up: THIS CRAP DOESN'T WORK. NO ONE IS USING IT AND MAKING MONEY OFF OF IT. WHAT IS THE POINT OF GIVING STUART YOUR MONEY IF THIS CRAP DOESN'T WORK!!!!

Of course it dont work if it did why would he sell it But people will keep paying for this rubbish and so the vendors ike him will appear time and again. Scares me how many people look at a simple moving average and think they have found success.

But that to some point is what fuels the market - losers, which makes it easier for winners. End of day I need losers for me to win in a zero sum game so maybe I sell a WINNING sma system and SELL. Think not.

 

[timsk]

Hi Claudia,
I'm surprised to see you jumping on the 'bash a vendor' bandwagon. I expect your post is well intentioned, but in my view the anti vendor lobby don't apply sound logic or reasoned thinking to their argument.

Of course it dont work if it did why would he sell it. But people will keep paying for this rubbish and so the vendors ike him will appear time and again.

There are loads of very dodgy people and companies out there selling rubbish and charging a lot for it. There's little doubt about that. However, it is quite wrong to tarnish all vendors as rubbish. There are lots of good ones who offer a good product / service and who have lots of happy customers. E.g. Mr. Charts. He is a very well respected member here on T2W and a well known vendor and I am one of his happy customers. And there are many good reasons why they sell their services and products besides just trading in obscurity. Additionally, I think it's fine for mechanicaldaytrader (ex) students to dismiss his methodolgy as "rubbish" if that's their view based on their experience of his materials. If you are a (ex) student of Stuart's, then I accept your view, otherwise your obsevation is both unfair and unfounded.

Scares me how many people look at a simple moving average and think they have found success.

So long as the trader is able to distinguish between a trending market and a rangebound market, there's nothing much wrong with a simple MA crossover system. Although I suspect your comment wasn't aimed at the mechanicaldaytrader specifically, Stuart's methodology is a far cry from a simple MA crossover system. Just looking at his website and his posts to this thread will reveal that there's rather more to it than that.

But that to some point is what fuels the market - losers, which makes it easier for winners. End of day I need losers for me to win in a zero sum game so maybe I sell a WINNING sma system and SELL. Think not.

Of course you're right that those who make money do so at the expense of the losers. I suspect that many of the losing traders have never paid for any tuition and think they can enter the market and make money from their hope and pray trades. If more people paid out good money for good tuition, they might lose less in the markets. There is a place for good tuition in trading, just as there's a place for good tuition in any other sphere of human endeavor. Have you - or anyone you know - ever been to an evening class and really benefited from it? Well there you go - why's trading any different? The really important point in all of this is to distinguish the good vendors with a good product or service to sell at a fair price from the numerous scam merchants. That is a more complex issue. But, the notion that all trading vendors are evil crooks who only pedal their trashy wares because they can't trade themselves is totally ludicrous.
Tim.

 

[tenbobtrader]

"But, the notion that all trading vendors are evil crooks who only pedal their trashy wares because they can't trade themselves is totally ludicrous."

your right tim

sorry to the three in every thousand that are reputable

most would be better saving themselves some money / time and just read through the general articles page on the front of this site for free

 

[Claudia123]

Tim

Interesting reply thanks for taking the time.

I think Mr Charts is without doubt an exception to the rule and have never said differently.

But as tenbob says most wanna be traders would be better reading this site and learning with demo accounts or whatever. (I dont like demo accounts either - useful to become familiar with a platform that's all. The emotion in real trading is so different).

I learned to be consistently profitable by losing money over a number of years and learning from mistakes. Charts with multi colour crossovers and stochs and rsi etc have all gone out window.

But then every ones different.

Have a good day.

 

[bfirth]

the funny thing is that if mechanicaldaytrader didn't become hysterical and yell abuse every time someone questioned his system he might sell more.
in my experience,i have never in any walk of life, found that skilled people, who are good at what they do ever become annoyed at doubters and criticism, and if its important that people realize that their claims are true they prove it, because they can.
If i walked into a car showroom and asked how reliable one of their cars were, and the reply was "I don't have to prove how good our cars are how dare you question me, its up to you you to prove my cars aren't the best in the universe" well how many cars would they sell?
Its all fairly funny in a very depressing kind of way.

 

[vrtrop22b]

Stuart's act is so annoying to me. What I love is that threads like this and the one on elitetrader will exist to dissuade newbies from getting mixed up with this guy. I was with him in 2006, so the law of averages say that if his methodology was viable that he would have some successful students that would verify the success he claims is possible. Quick story. he mentioned back in 2006 that he had some prop shop in Chicago I believe that was interested in his methodology. Of course that fell completely flat because - HIS CRAP DOESN'T WORK. Part of me kind of admires the hustler work ethic he displays. I mean he doesn't work a 9 to 5 job and derives enough income to take trips and live fairly comfortably. The truth though is he is just one rung above a drug dealer. If someone insists on giving him money at this point what can be done.

 

[vrtrop22b]

I just realized something reading this thread. I am pretty sure Stuart did his impersonation act here by posting as aussiepearson. Notice how someone asks about recommendations and then magically aussiepearson makes his one and only post on this board. He is from Florida and has Stuart's tell tale ... style of writing just like floridadaytrade from the elitetrader thread. Seriously, this is my last last followup on this scammer. You have all been warned at this point, so just stay away from this guy.