Trader333
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It is not for the likes of us to judge whether you are stupid or not as all anyone can do is make a recommendation based on their own experience.
I recommend that it is not a good idea to borrow money with which to trade. The main reason being that you will feel under enormous emotional pressure to make profit. This is something that is just not the same when you are using money that if you lose wont put you in a debt situation.
Others will have different views but this is mine.
Paul
I recommend that it is not a good idea to borrow money with which to trade. The main reason being that you will feel under enormous emotional pressure to make profit. This is something that is just not the same when you are using money that if you lose wont put you in a debt situation.
Others will have different views but this is mine.
Paul
mannatrading
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You are young, and can take chances. Now is the time!! But no, I would say that going into debt to do it is a bad idea. Plus you obviously need help since you weren't successful the first time so...join a proprietary room where they can give you the kind of help that MIGHT put you over the hump!
You would be a good candidate, I should think. I always like it when someone is hungry enough to put up their own bread to trade but fail for, perhaps, no fault of their own.
You would be a good candidate, I should think. I always like it when someone is hungry enough to put up their own bread to trade but fail for, perhaps, no fault of their own.
I hate to moralise or make somebody else decisions for them but you need to ask yourself a lot of questions.
If I go this route what's the worst place I could end up ?
Where is it likely to lead me ?
What alternatives have I got ?
I keep on reading over and over one key attributes of a trader are knowing when to act, patience until you reach that point and not getting too emotional about things. The fact that you're asking is a good sign tho, lesser people would've just jumped straight in.
At the end of the day though you're going to make your own decisions no matter what anybody else tells you.
Good luck.
If I go this route what's the worst place I could end up ?
Where is it likely to lead me ?
What alternatives have I got ?
I keep on reading over and over one key attributes of a trader are knowing when to act, patience until you reach that point and not getting too emotional about things. The fact that you're asking is a good sign tho, lesser people would've just jumped straight in.
At the end of the day though you're going to make your own decisions no matter what anybody else tells you.
Good luck.
TheBramble
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Lucky - a £20K loan as a personal debt to go it (again) alone would be IMO a mistake. Without any further education anyway.
If the arcade/prop trading has a good background/reputation and you 'know' you have what it takes - then the £20K could be considered (psychologically, if not for tax purposes) as a business loan. You owe the same. The pressure's the same. But you wont feel the same level of pressure.
However, as you say you've 'gone back' to work I take it you're in a business sector that is reasonably buoyant. As Dow Dog said 'go back to the rigs' (or contract or do whatever you can to make the most money in whatever you're going to do).
Save the £20K while learning, paper trading, reading these and other trading boards.
Don't know about the MSc route as that takes more time than I think you have the patience for and won't necessarily give you what you want in the end anyway.
If the arcade/prop trading has a good background/reputation and you 'know' you have what it takes - then the £20K could be considered (psychologically, if not for tax purposes) as a business loan. You owe the same. The pressure's the same. But you wont feel the same level of pressure.
However, as you say you've 'gone back' to work I take it you're in a business sector that is reasonably buoyant. As Dow Dog said 'go back to the rigs' (or contract or do whatever you can to make the most money in whatever you're going to do).
Save the £20K while learning, paper trading, reading these and other trading boards.
Don't know about the MSc route as that takes more time than I think you have the patience for and won't necessarily give you what you want in the end anyway.
mannatrading
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Since we are all here to decide how he F*&#@ up his life, I'll chime in again.
Clearly he wants to trade not go back to school and maybe/maybe not get into a career he likes after that. Also, going back to make money pushes his age back even further. Wife kids house in Devon....NOT the time to see if he can do it.
Now, to go into debt seems silly but you can use others money AND methodology (coupled with yours). You get to trade, find out if you are "the dogs..." (do I have that right?) and if not? move on with your life. You are young, take your chances now!
Clearly he wants to trade not go back to school and maybe/maybe not get into a career he likes after that. Also, going back to make money pushes his age back even further. Wife kids house in Devon....NOT the time to see if he can do it.
Now, to go into debt seems silly but you can use others money AND methodology (coupled with yours). You get to trade, find out if you are "the dogs..." (do I have that right?) and if not? move on with your life. You are young, take your chances now!
Mr. Charts
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1. Don't go into debt, the psychological pressure to take low probability trades will be too great.
2. Get yourself an education, by whatever means you choose, in how to actually trade. This does NOT, imo, entail doing a Masters.
3. Start small and work your way up to an increasing trading pot, constantly taking steps to minimise pressure and stress.
4. Always keep it simple and easy and above all don't spend years of your life looking for a non-existent Holy Grail of trading.
5. Remember this business IS a business so treat it as such.
It requires great self discipline, application and humility to succeed, not just a will to do so.
Rashness and/or an urge to gamble WILL lead to failure.
But, before you even consider going down this road again, perhaps you might want to consider why you want to trade.
Is it merely the desire to escape from your present existence?
Or is the motivation more positive as well?
Do you really WANT to trade or simply escape?
Personally I wanted both and achieved my dream and hey, if I could do it, so can you - but be aware of what takes to get where you want to be.
HTH
Richard
2. Get yourself an education, by whatever means you choose, in how to actually trade. This does NOT, imo, entail doing a Masters.
3. Start small and work your way up to an increasing trading pot, constantly taking steps to minimise pressure and stress.
4. Always keep it simple and easy and above all don't spend years of your life looking for a non-existent Holy Grail of trading.
5. Remember this business IS a business so treat it as such.
It requires great self discipline, application and humility to succeed, not just a will to do so.
Rashness and/or an urge to gamble WILL lead to failure.
But, before you even consider going down this road again, perhaps you might want to consider why you want to trade.
Is it merely the desire to escape from your present existence?
Or is the motivation more positive as well?
Do you really WANT to trade or simply escape?
Personally I wanted both and achieved my dream and hey, if I could do it, so can you - but be aware of what takes to get where you want to be.
HTH
Richard
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... one flew over the what?
Only kidding. Save your money and find out what the success rate is before you do anything rash, then after the sobering facts have been divulged, consider if the risk reward is compatible to the other possible ways of investing the capital.
Only kidding. Save your money and find out what the success rate is before you do anything rash, then after the sobering facts have been divulged, consider if the risk reward is compatible to the other possible ways of investing the capital.
Salty Gibbon
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Richard, were there times along the way when you questioned the wisdom of what you were doing ? Did you ever have doubts and second thoughts or was it plain sailing?
donaldduke
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20K, its not a huge amount of money these days .. if u
dont have any other debts then its hardly going to be a
huge millstone around your neck..
Some of the greatest success stories in Business are about
people who borrowed on credit cards eg the couple who
started Cisco, ofcourse there are atleast a 100 failures for every
success.
My advice would be to work hard and save the 20K, even if
it takes you five years to do so.
Thats one of good things about trading, the markets will
still be here tomorrow, you can wait until you are ready,
no need to rush..
If you cant stand to do that then go ahead and borrow the
money, you are still young and can afford to fail, when you
are older you wont have time on your side and will have to
be able to take such risks.
dont have any other debts then its hardly going to be a
huge millstone around your neck..
Some of the greatest success stories in Business are about
people who borrowed on credit cards eg the couple who
started Cisco, ofcourse there are atleast a 100 failures for every
success.
My advice would be to work hard and save the 20K, even if
it takes you five years to do so.
Thats one of good things about trading, the markets will
still be here tomorrow, you can wait until you are ready,
no need to rush..
If you cant stand to do that then go ahead and borrow the
money, you are still young and can afford to fail, when you
are older you wont have time on your side and will have to
be able to take such risks.
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Mr. Charts
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Salty,
We must all question ourselves constantly. I suppose my cautious nature helped me avoid many of the traps ppl fall into - like taking low probability trades. The result was that I've always only had a small %age failure rate. I do NOT subscribe to the popular view that you must fail and lose money first in order to go through some sort of test of fire and come out stronger I'm not being immodest saying that, I feel very humble in front of the market, merely explaining why I probably had fewer doubts and more confidence about giving up my profession to trade.
My wife and family were very encouraging and that helps. My professional colleagues thought I was out of my tiny mind ;-)
I am not into the whole navel-gazing culture and too much introspection is bad for a trader.
I realise I might give the impression of being too arrogant when I post trades etc. and maybe make things look too "easy", but this business is not rocket science and once you can reach a level of self discipline, the way I trade is actually easy in the sense of being methodical and controlled.
Any deeper questions need to be off-board, Salty - enough soul baring! ;-)
HTH
Richard
We must all question ourselves constantly. I suppose my cautious nature helped me avoid many of the traps ppl fall into - like taking low probability trades. The result was that I've always only had a small %age failure rate. I do NOT subscribe to the popular view that you must fail and lose money first in order to go through some sort of test of fire and come out stronger I'm not being immodest saying that, I feel very humble in front of the market, merely explaining why I probably had fewer doubts and more confidence about giving up my profession to trade.
My wife and family were very encouraging and that helps. My professional colleagues thought I was out of my tiny mind ;-)
I am not into the whole navel-gazing culture and too much introspection is bad for a trader.
I realise I might give the impression of being too arrogant when I post trades etc. and maybe make things look too "easy", but this business is not rocket science and once you can reach a level of self discipline, the way I trade is actually easy in the sense of being methodical and controlled.
Any deeper questions need to be off-board, Salty - enough soul baring! ;-)
HTH
Richard
TWI
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I would not take out a loan to join an arcade. You will get quite stressed out when you see your 20k dwindling to less than 50% of that before you start to make anything, and that is in an arcade where they have an attitude to develop traders. In the sausage factory arcades all your money will disappear in costs.
If you do not have the money and you cannot get funding then do not do it. I have seen many peoples accounts that start in this business and they all take hits in the beginning that can be quite psychologically damaging even if it is not debt money.
If you do not have the money and you cannot get funding then do not do it. I have seen many peoples accounts that start in this business and they all take hits in the beginning that can be quite psychologically damaging even if it is not debt money.
adrianallen99
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Hmm £20k,
You could take it to a casino and place it all on Red (or black). If you win pay back the £20k loan and invest the rest, if you lose, learn from it and start paying back the loan slowly
You could take it to a casino and place it all on Red (or black). If you win pay back the £20k loan and invest the rest, if you lose, learn from it and start paying back the loan slowly
I notice from your profile that you scalp, day and swing trade.
Seems like you scalp your profits and swing your losses.
It is hard enough to trade one way and make money.
Don't borrow money to trade, as Mr Charts say's start small.
What time of day will you be working, I started trading part-time after work, just thought you could do the 2.
Seems like you scalp your profits and swing your losses.
It is hard enough to trade one way and make money.
Don't borrow money to trade, as Mr Charts say's start small.
What time of day will you be working, I started trading part-time after work, just thought you could do the 2.
