Have you ventured to the dark side yet?

[wannagetstacked]

That would be great MrCharts,
I've only ventured onto that thread briefly when considering trading the nazdaq, it has a great appeal but currencies always being good for me.

What's your opinion of the trade setups i have posted so far? My aim was to make them easy to understand and duplicated if wanted. Would love to hear if I have achieved this, and any pointers to make them easier to understand. Its my first attempt at teaching the way i trade that wasn't for a friend.

Thanks

Nathan

 

[TheBramble]

For real false signals check out a slow stochastic in a strong trending market?

I now only use price, volume and ma for my swing trading.

Presumably you feel the same about your MA in a sideways market?

The thing is, a slow stoch WITH an MA (or two) works pretty well in a trending market. Coming up through the 20 level with an up trending MA or down through the 80 with a down trend provides very tradeable positions.

Providing you're also looking at the futures and of course, the wider timeframes for broad agreement on trend.

 

[dbphoenix]

Thanks JumpOff, hopefull DB will share his thoughts.

Here is another setup from this morning. Pretty standard setup but lacked momentum.

Nathan

I'm hardly a master. But I'm puzzled as to why these "price action" threads invariably wind up being about indicators? To say that one trades via price action but then incorporates stochastics and MA XOs seems to me to be a pretty substantial disconnect.

But, hey. Whatever works for you.

 

[Mr. Charts]

wannagetsmacked,
in your box now
Richard

 

[wannagetstacked]

Thanks for your contribution DB. I only use the one MA signal advocated by the guys at undergroundtrader. The stochastics are not of massive use to my trading but they do help me when looking for a quick overview whilst scanning for trades. I know i could get by without them but for the space it takes up i think they're worth it.

I don't want to discuss indicators on this thread and will remove them from my future attatchments to avoid causing any further confusion.

Thanks

Nathan

 

[henry766]

no offence wanna , can't seem to open your charts , maybe its my puter , but it won't do it!!

 

[pkfryer]

Battler, you misinterpretted what I was saying like you misinterpretted the slow stochastic. You assume that its always overbought when it rises above its upper line and oversold when it drops below the lower.

No, that line reflects relative position of the current price to the range. Thats it. It doesn't mean oversold or overbought. Its just price in comparison to range, so of course it will go high on up trends and low on down trends.

That is what I mean by it doesn't give false signals. You may as well say that a correction, trend or volume is giving a false signal. It will have the same lack of meaning.

 

[dbphoenix]

Thanks for your contribution DB. I only use the one MA signal advocated by the guys at undergroundtrader. The stochastics are not of massive use to my trading but they do help me when looking for a quick overview whilst scanning for trades. I know i could get by without them but for the space it takes up i think they're worth it.

I don't want to discuss indicators on this thread and will remove them from my future attatchments to avoid causing any further confusion.

Thanks

Nathan

No reason to remove them for me. They're part of your setup, and if they work for you, who am I to say don't use them?

As for MAs, they can become indicators as well if one is using them as something other than a trendline proxy.

I understand how difficult it is to give up indicators and patterns and focus on price action. Therefore, if you've created a set of tactics which include stochastics and MA XOs and are successful with it, then by all means discuss it. What matters is whether or not you make money with it. I'm sure that those who have followed sulong's thread (http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12235) will learn something from you, and those who are following this may learn something from him, as well.

 

[wannagetstacked]

Pkfyer thats exactly how i would interpret a stochastic indicator, it makes it easy to see where current price is in the range,
Never used ma crosses in my trading as they are possibly the one of the most lagging signals in short term trades.
Anyway,thats enough about indicators.

How important have people found volume in trading price action signals? Being strictly a currencies follower I don't have the need for it and don't use tick volume.

Maybe trading currencies removes the distraction of volume levels and so allows the trader to focus solely on price action.

Another observation I have made is that a high percent of documented price action examples are derived from simple hook formations on the end of a trend. If using a KISS aproach i don't think you could get much more basic. For me, every trade is derived from around this formation of prices, and helped me to explore the many ways that it forms.

I'm not saying you should follow this method, but if looking for an introduction to the workings of price action I can't think of a simpler way.

Anybody disagree? I have been trying to think of the easiest way to introduce price action to somebody, with the high percent success rate of hook formations on the end of a trend i would see this as a good start.
If you were trying to give an introduction to how price action formations work would you start in a different way.

Hopefully this will bring some good educational insights into this area of trading.

Thanks

Nathan

 

[eddyjo]

Hi All, I have a very simple system which is using a linear regression channel ( similar to a bollinger band ) and just waitng for the price to reverse from the upper and lower levels, the MA is only to confirm the new trend. you can also use candlestick patterns to alert a change of trend.

 

[TheBramble]

How important have people found volume in trading price action signals? Being strictly a currencies follower I don't have the need for it and don't use tick volume.

Volume is a vital aspect of what's going on in any market. As an FX trader you don't need it maybe because you don't HAVE it...

Another observation I have made is that a high percent of documented price action examples are derived from simple hook formations on the end of a trend.

What are you trying to say here? EVERY bar is an example of price action.

If you want to discuss Ross Hooks why didn't you just head the thread accordingly? This isn't DarkSide (tm) stuff, Price & Volume. You've got a stack of inds on your charts, you refer to them 'well I only use one MA...'. I think the problem with the loss of focus in this thread is that it didn't really have any to start with.

Not a dig at you as there may well develop something of interest, but threads do have a life of their own and you appear to be trying to keep bringing it 'back' to something undefined.

Just a personal opinion.

 

[Roberto]

Being strictly a currencies follower I don't have the need for it and don't use tick volume.

This comment surprises me a bit, Nathan. Over the last year I've been trying to concentrate more on currencies and less on other things. The absence of volume is precisely what makes it so difficult for me to do this. Can you say more about why you feel you don't need volume?

 

[a320]

a320 has ALWAYS been working from the Dark Side - darker than you would care to imagine. (Trust me on that!)

You'll put people off with that statement Tony...

 

[wannagetstacked]

Thats alright Bramble no offence taken,

I'll keep posting my trades based on price alone and see if i can bring some clarity about the way I trade, I do rely on the movement of prices alone to enter my trades and would consider this price action trading, perhaps not a full darksider though as i don't use volume.

Hope my contributions have been of some help, is there a way to change the titles of threads as i now see it may be misleading to include the darkside, Maybe it could be called "A step into the grey".

Thanks

Nathan

 

[options]

l keep posting my trades based on price alone and see if i can bring some clarity about the way I trade, I do rely on the movement of prices alone to enter my trades and would consider this price action trading, perhaps not a full darksider though as i don't use volume.

Hope my contributions have been of some help, is there a way to change the titles of threads as i now see it may be misleading to include the darkside, Maybe it could be called "A step into the grey".

Thanks

Nathan

Perhaps taking 'darksiding' one step further by NOT being able to use volume, indicators etc.

I would love to have volume available for forex, but sadly...

 

[wannagetstacked]

That would be my opinion also Options. I do not need volume to see what prices are doing and feel it would give me false signals that may alter the way I trade. An advantage of trading forex may well be the level playing ground that is offered by not having the extra distraction of volume, allowing the trader to focus purely on the movement of prices. It would be interesting to see the benefits you could gain in forex if you were the only private trader with accurate volume information.
The movement of prices alone is enough at the moment for me.

Busy week coming up so may not post any new trades until wednesday.

Nathan

 

[wannagetstacked]

Posted by Bramble
"If you want to discuss Ross Hooks why didn't you just head the thread accordingly? This isn't DarkSide (tm) stuff, Price & Volume. You've got a stack of inds on your charts, you refer to them 'well I only use one MA...'. I think the problem with the loss of focus in this thread is that it didn't really have any to start with"

Just to update also, It was mentioned by Bramble that this thread should have been entitled Ross Hooks. If you look at all the charts I have posted you will notice that not one of them uses a Ross Hook. I thought bramble would have spotted this before this before commenting. I rarely use Ross Hooks because they do not occur very often when I trade, if I see one develop however I will enter using it. When I refer to hooks it is regarding entry in the opposite direction to which you would enter a ross hook, hence if the hook I am watching does not give an entry point, it may well give a ross hook entry in the following three price bars. I will try to post some charts to clarify this area.

Nathan

 

[osho67]

Hi,

Would Fibonacci retracement levels be considered an indicator or could Fibonacci be used as part of observing Price action? Or does it make no difference and you are better of looking at support and resistance?


Many thanks

Osho

 

[china white]

I am starting this thread to find out how many of T2W members have abandoned indicators in favour of price action? ......leave a post saying whether you are a convert or not.......

firm dark sider here. tried all the indicators and found that I am very uncomfortable with any of them, apart from TICK, which in its essence is not exactly an indicator but a modified volume rather.

I wudnt use the word "convert" though mate. I have utmost respect to ppl who consistently make money trading on indicators, like ChartMan who is one of the sharpest minds on this website or Voodoo across the pond. Having said that, so it happens that I realised that FOR MYSELF AND MYSELF ONLY the dark side is the only place to be.

 

[JumpOff]

It just keeps getting darker...

I have the utmost respect for anyone who can successfully trade, week in, week out and keep the cash coming in - no matter whether they are dark siders or indicator followers.. I've been re-reading some of the threads, (no indicators, price /volume/support/resistance,) and I am embarrassed to say that the material looks different to me now than it did 3-6 months ago... I mean the words are the same, but I just wasn't prepared to really grasp what I thought I understood... Socrates (the original ancient one) pointed out that writing is really not as good as speaking to someone, because you never know which fool is going to pick up your work, misunderstand it, and then go off to rack and ruin, - blaming you all the way. He felt that semi-private oral 'question and answer' mentoring was necessary to make sure you got your ideas across and that your student was ready for the next dribble of info..

I dabbled in commodities as a hobby about 20 years ago (amazing - I only lost about 2,000 over a 9 month period and thought it was the best fun - I had no clue the risk I was taking....). I recently got interested in trading again when I ran across some old metastock literature when I was cleaning out a desk about a year ago. So I came into this assuming that the right combination of indicators would be the holy grail, and that of course, I could figure out a unique system that no one else was using in just a couple of weeks....
LOL

So I've spent most of the last year, just unlearning everything I thought I knew about trading.
I have to say that it is going to take more time before I can understand the price and volume relationship. I've pretty much given up on all the indicators - including volume. When ever I use them, I get so involved with them that I forget the price action is the most important. I find my self making trades I would never have taken if that thing wasn't on my chart. I am still assuming volume is important - it just seems to overwhelm me at this point, so I'm putting it on my "to do" list.

I use paper trading as a test to see what part of my trading plan is missing - if I'm sitting at the screen wondering what I should be doing - then I know there is a gap in my plan.
My only successful trading days so far have been when I traded with nothing but price on my screen (in 2 or 3 different time frames). I marked the support and resistance and waited for higher highs and lower lows. Waiting for those confirmation signals kept me out of a lot of stupid trades - and I did a better job at recognising the entry patterns I've defined in my plan. So I'm going to continue to pare down my trading plan entries and exits to a couple of setups that can be recognised by pure price action while keeping and eye on support/resistance. Does anyone else trade this way? Or did you when you were starting out?

Getting darker by the minute - JO