Has anyone been succesful with trading???

[commanderco]

Apparently one of the differences between winning and loosing traders is whether the trader believes it is possible to be a winning trader.

It is a start, but how you lay the rubber down on the road is the key.

The point I was trying to make earlier ( and probably badly) was that people are inclined
towards what they consider is positive thinking.
In fact it is wishful thinking.
It makes the world go around.

 

[charliechan]

Hi, I'm a newbie here, but have been trading for several years. When you hit a bad patch, back off a while, get control of your emotions. If you have a plan that you know works on paper, then stick exactly with it. If, in the moment of executing a trade you think you can short-cut the plan, you won't, and it will cost you. If you feel yourself doing that, then stop trading until you can control your fear and greed.

If you keep doing that, then ask yourself what kind of a plan is it? How well formulated? Revisit its assumptions on paper again.

Finally, stick to one, maybe two things at a time. Your mind won't cope with more and excitement or fear will do you in eventually. 75% of good trading is preparation and planning, 24% waiting and 1% trading. Don't attack the market, it will win. Wait for it to come to you - by that I mean enter when you are comfortable with your emotions and comfortable that the plan is good.

Sorry to preach! Best of luck. Don't give in.

spot on.

 

[VOLTRON]

....you're right commanderco, i've been reading some of the messages on here and it is evident that SOME traders are trying to make out they've got some kinda of master plan they believe no-one else knows......lol it's often a logic bankrupt idea. The best of marketmakers work on the law of averages , they know over time it is hard to impossibe for you to predict the market accurately most times and in reality the so-called TREND are rarely straight forward .........very often you'll have been kicked out of the market several times during the trend and your profit at the end of the trend is at best derisory. Without giving too much away for data protection sake as i still work where i work, the retail traders that gets marketmakers worried are not the ones that make £3000 a day because they know its not sustainable .......it's the ones that make £18 per trade profit 15 -20 times a day cos they're often working on a very high probability trading strategy and are often hard to stop . The way a marketmaker stops that is my making the strategy public inorder to dilute its effect .

Another thing i don't understand is why do people a lot of traders believe the phrase "Past performance is not an indication of future performance " only to contradice that believe by subscribing to some expensive charting tool that merely tells you whats already happened?? please educate me on this if you have an answer!! lol

I believe trading successfully or for a living .....is for the few that have that incisive look to fish out the "EDGE" cos it's there but takes more than charts, rumours , etc to find. The investment banks know they're on to a good thing for as long as the "Integrated model" exists which is a system where by big investment banks are the marketmakers and also the big time traders ........because they can see price formation from hedge funds, government treasury depts, etc ........early.

Have a good w'end .

 

[commanderco]

....you're right commanderco, i've been reading some of the messages on here and it is evident that SOME traders are trying to make out they've got some kinda of master plan they believe no-one else knows......lol it's often a logic bankrupt idea. The best of marketmakers work on the law of averages , they know over time it is hard to impossibe for you to predict the market accurately most times and in reality the so-called TREND are rarely straight forward .........very often you'll have been kicked out of the market several times during the trend and your profit at the end of the trend is at best derisory. Without giving too much away for data protection sake as i still work where i work, the retail traders that gets marketmakers worried are not the ones that make £3000 a day because they know its not sustainable .......it's the ones that make £18 per trade profit 15 -20 times a day cos they're often working on a very high probability trading strategy and are often hard to stop . The way a marketmaker stops that is my making the strategy public inorder to dilute its effect .

Another thing i don't understand is why do people a lot of traders believe the phrase "Past performance is not an indication of future performance " only to contradice that believe by subscribing to some expensive charting tool that merely tells you whats already happened?? please educate me on this if you have an answer!! lol

I believe trading successfully or for a living .....is for the few that have that incisive look to fish out the "EDGE" cos it's there but takes more than charts, rumours , etc to find. The investment banks know they're on to a good thing for as long as the "Integrated model" exists which is a system where by big investment banks are the marketmakers and also the big time traders ........because they can see price formation from hedge funds, government treasury depts, etc ........early.

Have a good w'end .

Hi Voltron,
The world is driven on emotion.
Those who profess to be logical are usually highly emtional outside the confines of their chosen discipline ... hence the high failure rate amongst traders who are measured to be successful in their chosen profession.
Wannabe Traders will work in the evenings when they are tired and when they should be spending their time with family after a day of separation, in the ill conceived belief that when they are making $n per week they will chuck in their day job.
This is fallacious reasoning and so already they are off to a bad start.
If they focused their energies on repetitive behaviour ( good behaviour that is) and focused on what it takes ( the simple law of averages) to produce a steady stream of net positive points, then they could concentrate on scaling in and scaling out to make a bunch of daily money.

Good lord, I have just taught someone how to trade!!

But this is not going to happen for the vast majority.
It is just too unlike the world that surrounds them and they cannot see the woods for the trees.
If someone tells me that they have a great trading method, I simply ask "how many lots are you trading"
Buen fin de semana

 

[piptrader]

Take a break...

I have been trying to trade for the last two years. when It comes to paper trading and demo trading I can make it work. However whenever I switch to live trading it only works for a short time and then I just loose money. Its almost like "they" know what I am doing.

This has been going on the past two years and I am about ready to close my account. I have talked to my wife about this and she thinks I should close my account as well. However I am not a quitter and the thought of quitting bothers me alot. Not to mention I would love to make this work

The point is I am open to any suggestions. Should I close my account and if not what can I do to keep a profit?

Thanks
Joseph

Take a break and go read "Trading In The Zone " by Mark Douglas

 

[VOLTRON]

Take a break and go read "Trading In The Zone " by Mark Douglas

Common piptrader........ surely you must know by now that no book will can successfully teach you how to trade be realistic ........as the saying goes "if you cannot trade successfully , write a book about it " lol Mark douglas is a writer not a trader and i don't believe for one minute that is thoughts, beliefs about trading is necessarily a barometer of rational reasoning .

Jokes apart , if u don't have the "edge " in trading you most likely not gonna succeed having said that , a few do and they r the 2 % . Why do you think investment banks will try everything in their power to protect what is known to be the "integrated model" ....anyway here is a book for you to read since you appear to get your inspirations from books ....try "Greed Merchants" by Philip Augar

 

[nine]

What makes you think that Mark Douglas is not a trader?

Also, for the original poster, you can get a good set of Douglas audios free at:

http://woodiescciclub.com/Lecture/mark-douglas/june-2005.htm
http://woodiescciclub.com/Lecture/mark-douglas/august-2005.htm

 

[mikemike]

Merdox
four things. Consistency, Focus, Discipline, Patience.
Thats a good start

 

[Kaffee]

In which case Voltron... ALL of the retail CFD, S/B or Currency trading platform providers would be held accountable under the Trades Description Act... Because they all tout for business using the "You win, we win" mantra.

Not quite sure how it works if we lose though. !!

The point is, if you start to show any degree of success I would have thought you just set yourself up with a few different account to stay "off the radar" so to speak.

It's a conspiracists wet dream all this "they are out to get me/us" rubbish. People get greedy, get reckless and THAT is when is goes to pot, not because and order is missed by 1 or 2 points. And as an example, I was trading CapitalSpreads simulation account a while back, and they missed orders a plenty, slipping by 1 or 2 both sides of the trade.

If they are so keen to get mug punters on board, it's hardly an endorsement for their platform is it ? The reality is that we are at distance from the market, servers slow up, systems crash, networks get bottlenecks... no matter how much they have spent of infrastructure. Then you have the lags from your ISP to your desktop... it all mounts up.

I just accepted it and adjusted accordingly. Too easy to blame the suits.

Also, as for this "once a system works, it's made public"... how do you or anybody else know what system Joe Public is operating ?? And are you saying that a daily $1.5trillion market can be manipulated by the Stochs overbought/oversold strategy of one man who has made such a strategy work for him ??

Bottom line is... decision are made and consequences ensue. I do beleive all the tools are there to make trading work. You just have to use them properly, and that comes down to the mental state/strength of the person placing the trades.

Be lucky one and all. And a Merry Xmas.

....you're right commanderco, i've been reading some of the messages on here and it is evident that SOME traders are trying to make out they've got some kinda of master plan they believe no-one else knows......lol it's often a logic bankrupt idea. The best of marketmakers work on the law of averages , they know over time it is hard to impossibe for you to predict the market accurately most times and in reality the so-called TREND are rarely straight forward .........very often you'll have been kicked out of the market several times during the trend and your profit at the end of the trend is at best derisory. Without giving too much away for data protection sake as i still work where i work, the retail traders that gets marketmakers worried are not the ones that make £3000 a day because they know its not sustainable .......it's the ones that make £18 per trade profit 15 -20 times a day cos they're often working on a very high probability trading strategy and are often hard to stop . The way a marketmaker stops that is my making the strategy public inorder to dilute its effect .

Another thing i don't understand is why do people a lot of traders believe the phrase "Past performance is not an indication of future performance " only to contradice that believe by subscribing to some expensive charting tool that merely tells you whats already happened?? please educate me on this if you have an answer!! lol

I believe trading successfully or for a living .....is for the few that have that incisive look to fish out the "EDGE" cos it's there but takes more than charts, rumours , etc to find. The investment banks know they're on to a good thing for as long as the "Integrated model" exists which is a system where by big investment banks are the marketmakers and also the big time traders ........because they can see price formation from hedge funds, government treasury depts, etc ........early.

Have a good w'end .

 

[commanderco]

The point is, if you start to show any degree of success I would have thought you just set yourself up with a few different account to stay "off the radar" so to speak.
.

If you do this then you will need several different brokers and you will miss
out on volume discounts, particularily "unbundled"

Also bear in mind that there are large volume trading accounts held by brokers,
in which case your account may not mean a great deal to them during the course
of a trading day, even though they are good brokers.

If you have established a rational trading plan, then anything that impedes that plan
is a rational problem and must be dealt with in a rational manner in order to
keep the plan on track.
In dealing with problems, your knowledge will expand and allow you to "tune up"
your plan ,which in itself is a living breathing organic being .... an extension of
yourself.
Your greatest challenge will always be "your sense of rationale" and in the begining
it may not be sufficent to create a profit for you in which case your sense of rationale
will slip even further.
This is the challenge that all traders face and will always face. You can never tick it off your list.
You will never become as clear thinking as you would like to be since the mere thought
of clear thinking will muddy the waters ( so as to speak)
One day it will occur to you that you do not focus on certain issues anymore, you merely learn, then act then learn again. This is not a case of "breaking through the clouds" it is not that dramatic. Rather it will manifest in the way you react, or more importantly do not over react to things, issues and people in you day to day life.
Try reading some of the threads on T2W that have very specific headings and work out the ratio of emotion to logic in each thread. You can do this by counting lines since many posts contain both ( including this one) Draw your own conclusions from this exercise.

We are all emotional creatures by birth and during the course of our upbringing we are bombarded by more emotive thinking. You are not going to unravel the mess overnight, nor
are you going to become a pro trader unless you do. ... a catch 22.
Many many people will disagree with me as is their entitlement since they are living their lives not mine.
I only make these ramblings on T2W as an offering.
They are mine. Pick them up and they become yours ( in part).
Reject them and they remain mine.

 

[FOREXHUSKY]

Hi merdox, just read your post , i think your headline sums it up " Has anyone been succesful with trading??? " the reality is very few people make money from trading , something in the region of 2% and others lie or only tell you when they make money ......i've worked with some of the forex companies in the uk and most clients lose money within the first 3 months and the best customers lose it over a year to 18 months ........if you think what i'm saying is a bit cynical and inaccurate, ask one of the so-called or self-claimed successful trader on this board to allow you to watch their trades for 3 months and see how badly they do if not worse than you. In my experience , the only consistent and long term successful traders i've come across tends to work within investment banking where i worked in administration of some fx trades .... and in conclusion i think they were able to make consistent profit because they had what is known as "the edge" inorder they see and are aware of big trades that'll move the market such as Foreign govermemt buying a particular currency hence they are able to see price formation early and ride it . This traders DO not use graphs or any silly tools associated with the average trader like you and me .....they r only interested in price and the time . There are a small and almost negligible traders that have excellent strategies often derived from the field of " mathematical correlation " that works but this strategy requires huge resources to find and often last for a short while b4 everybody jumps on the bandwagon ....for example the "comovement of the NOKJPY and the oil prices " that lasted about 14 months before it was put in the public domain ...... another past profitable comovement existed and sometimes still works in the equities market between the symbol XLV and IYH this are health sectors ETF with very similar constituents hence any deviation from the mean is often capitalised on by the savvy trader.........anyway i'll stop rambling on but it takes more than graphs , silly break outs , gossips about a big dog buying the yen or the ghanian cedis to make money in the market if you wanna do it for a living and consistently .........do your research if possible get close to those that visibly make money in the market or work near them ..........best way to achieve success .

Thirdhigh

Very good post,i hope many will read it.
And one more think when it comes to show some account statements 99.9% "Traders",run and hide.
How many web sites out there or how many traders are posting profitable account statements??
Forexhusky

 

[mikemike]

Trading is very much like prostitution. For the outsider it seems easy and a lot of fun. But the reality is just the opposite.

You couldn't say it better. Do your own research, develop your own method, and just do what works best for you.

My worst losses occured when I followed someone elses advice - most of the times contrary to my own views. Each and every moment in the market is unique, and can therefore not be compared. There are similar days, months, years -but they are not identical.

 

[ronfalcone]

needing the "edge"

Very good post,i hope many will read it.
And one more think when it comes to show some account statements 99.9% "Traders",run and hide.
How many web sites out there or how many traders are posting profitable account statements??
Forexhusky

Then what the heck is the point of Trade 2 Win if the only folks making serious money are those with the 'edge'? Seems like we're all wasting our time and energy rambling on about nothing doesn't it then? Of course, I completely disagree with this claim. Yes, 95% of beginning trader 'hopefuls' lose money and 5% don't (but just how accurate are those numbers?) But after 3 years of scrotal breaking study and a loss of 20k, I intend to conquer my losses, and become a profitable trader. I intend to, and WILL win because I am making slow, but steady progress. It is doable.

I'd like to add another important fact that few of us care to admit. We're here because we're not succesfull yet. I guarantee you, when and if you do become successfull, you won't be back here. So don't base your cynicism on the lack of traders posting their wins as proof that there's not many winning traders. It's just that the winning traders don't really have a need to sit here and gripe about how damn hard trading is (which it is). There too busy winning!

Remember the old observation: average time to successfull trading for those who can stick it out is about 5 years. Those who do the most complaining think that there's somehow an easy shortcut to that success. They often give up in despair. Those who persevere and wait it out will usually be rewarded. Because after all, there has to be considerable pain in order to profit from the incredible potential gain of playing this game.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[FOREXHUSKY]

Then what the heck is the point of Trade 2 Win if the only folks making serious money are those with the 'edge'? Seems like we're all wasting our time and energy rambling on about nothing doesn't it then? Of course, I completely disagree with this claim. Yes, 95% of beginning trader 'hopefuls' lose money and 5% don't (but just how accurate are those numbers?) But after 3 years of scrotal breaking study and a loss of 20k, I intend to conquer my losses, and become a profitable trader. I intend to, and WILL win because I am making slow, but steady progress. It is doable.

I'd like to add another important fact that few of us care to admit. We're here because we're not succesfull yet. I guarantee you, when and if you do become successfull, you won't be back here. So don't base your cynicism on the lack of traders posting their wins as proof that there's not many winning traders. It's just that the winning traders don't really have a need to sit here and gripe about how damn hard trading is (which it is). There too busy winning!

Remember the old observation: average time to successfull trading for those who can stick it out is about 5 years. Those who do the most complaining think that there's somehow an easy shortcut to that success. They often give up in despair. Those who persevere and wait it out will usually be rewarded. Because after all, there has to be considerable pain in order to profit from the incredible potential gain of playing this game.

Just my 2 cents.

Thx good point.
There was no cinism in my short note,just reality with pple dont see,i have many years experience and without good teacher its extremly hard to made progress.
And thats what brokers want from pple OPEN more accounts and lose money to their pockets.
But some of us will beat them lol
And i wish you to become winer a big winer.

FXHUSKY

 

[commanderco]

Then what the heck is the point of Trade 2 Win if the only folks making serious money are those with the 'edge'? Seems like we're all wasting our time and energy rambling on about nothing doesn't it then? Of course, I completely disagree with this claim. Yes, 95% of beginning trader 'hopefuls' lose money and 5% don't (but just how accurate are those numbers?) But after 3 years of scrotal breaking study and a loss of 20k, I intend to conquer my losses, and become a profitable trader. I intend to, and WILL win because I am making slow, but steady progress. It is doable.

ONLY 3 YEARS SO FAR.
YOU ARE PROBABLY STILL AT THE STAGE WHERE YOU ARE OVERLY CONCERNED WITH THE ENTRY, WITH THOUGHTS NOW STRAYING TOWARDS THE EXIT.

I'd like to add another important fact that few of us care to admit. We're here because we're not succesfull yet. I guarantee you, when and if you do become successfull, you won't be back here. So don't base your cynicism on the lack of traders posting their wins as proof that there's not many winning traders. It's just that the winning traders don't really have a need to sit here and gripe about how damn hard trading is (which it is). There too busy winning!

YOU MANAGED TO GET THAT "DEAD WRONG"
JUDGING FROM A FEW POSTS THAT I READ HERE ON T2W THERE ARE CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE TRADERS ON THIS SITE... NOT MANY I GRANT YOU.

Remember the old observation: average time to successfull trading for those who can stick it out is about 5 years. Those who do the most complaining think that there's somehow an easy shortcut to that success. They often give up in despair. Those who persevere and wait it out will usually be rewarded. Because after all, there has to be considerable pain in order to profit from the incredible potential gain of playing this game.
Just my 2 cents.

THE COMPLAINING IS BORNE OF FRUSTRATION THAT ARISES FROM A COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY.
TRADING IS THE REAL WORLD, WHERE LOGICAL THINKING WINS THE DAY.
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DAY TO DAY WOOLY THINKING.

 

[ronfalcone]

getting the edge

[YOU MANAGED TO GET THAT "DEAD WRONG"
JUDGING FROM A FEW POSTS THAT I READ HERE ON T2W THERE ARE CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE TRADERS ON THIS SITE... NOT MANY I GRANT YOU.>

I hope you're right and hope I'm wrong. Frankly, I would love there to be winning traders who regularly post. That would be a welcome source of inspiration.

I guess I'm basing my obervations on my own personality which, granted, is not always the correct way to make observations. Nonetheless, if I were making money in the markets day after day, I would probably be too tired and too disinterested to spend time reading about other traders' concerns, lack of progress, and the endless debate over which system and indicator is the best. But that's me.

Have a good weekend,
Ron

 

[commanderco]

[YOU MANAGED TO GET THAT "DEAD WRONG"
JUDGING FROM A FEW POSTS THAT I READ HERE ON T2W THERE ARE CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE TRADERS ON THIS SITE... NOT MANY I GRANT YOU.>

I hope you're right and hope I'm wrong. Frankly, I would love there to be winning traders who regularly post. That would be a welcome source of inspiration.

I guess I'm basing my obervations on my own personality which, granted, is not always the correct way to make observations. Nonetheless, if I were making money in the markets day after day, I would probably be too tired and too disinterested to spend time reading about other traders' concerns, lack of progress, and the endless debate over which system and indicator is the best. But that's me.

Have a good weekend,
Ron

Hi Ron,

Judging from your comments, you are certainly in the middle of the "trading swamp"

When you start making consistent profits, you will be endowed with all the energy in the world.
Maybe you will want to put a little back into T2W to help those folks who are determined to improve themselves .... only you will know that.

Goodluck to you Ron. Try focusing for a while on the difference between trading and your day to day job/life and pick up on the different requirements and pressures.
This game is 80% played inside your head and 20% technical .... maybe you are spending 100% effort on the 20% part and ignoring the 80% component, or maybe you simply do not believe me.
If any part of you believes what I am saying, then you will need to retrain your mind/emotions/reactions in the same way that an athlete will construct a schedule and train to it.
At the moment, your mind is bouncing around, the price is bouncing around and your selection and application of tech indicators are bouncing around .... you are going to need to stabilise 2 of these 3 components and since you have no control over price, guess what they are going to be.

 

[JEDI]

Good points commanderco you hit the nail right on the head this game is won and lost in the mind and it takes a whole new way of thinking which is contrary to everything you are used to.
Why do you think my username is JEDI

 

[dc2000]

I'd like to add another important fact that few of us care to admit. We're here because we're not successful yet. I guarantee you, when and if you do become successful, you won't be back here. So don't base your cynicism on the lack of traders posting their wins as proof that there's not many winning traders. It's just that the winning traders don't really have a need to sit here and gripe about how damn hard trading is (which it is). There too busy winning!

I disagree there are successful traders on this website who continue to post this to my mind is because trading is a very boring profession ( with the exception of level2 scalping) once successful you will probably spend an hour a day working out what trade you are looking for and another 9 hours sitting on your hands or surfing the web, watching TV etc. So you continue to post in the hope that others may gain some knowledge from your postings and for something to do whilst at the computer.

The thing that does drive those that are successful away is the very high level of cynicism that exists within the trading community, if a junior member posts that he has been trading for 6 months and is profitable using a "system" why is he given short shrift why is he not asked show me what you are doing?

 

[wasp]

Because if they couldn't pull it off there's no way a newbie could!