Greece may exit the Euro ?

[Splitlink]

Do we want fiscal union with Greece or even with France?

In any case, if we had it how could we enforce it? Could we trust Greece anymore? I believe that mutual trust and mutual sacrifice is essential. I don't think that it exists in Europe. Self interest is what drives us all.

 

[Luc.Chase]

I should say that even more is needed. A truly federated union must come before, or with, a common currency. Brussels sold the Eurozone to a dreamy electorate ie that with one currency we would all be equal and "Hey! No more passport or travellers cheques"! I admit, I was as smitten with that idea as much as anyone. But it was learning to run before one can walk.

If Europe cannot federalise then we must give up hope of a stable common currency.

How exactly would that change regional economies?? You'll still end up with under-performing regions; regions that still can't regionally devalue their currency. In fact it would get worse as there would be a strong tendency to focus on already successful areas. I really think, most people are not ready for sharing their wealth with under performing regions. So, to me the next best thing is for Germany to exit, leaving the remaining members more similar to each other; a more balanced union. Asking Greece to exit implies about half a dozen others also leaving soon. The objective is to harmonize the group.

 

[Luc.Chase]

Germany's discipline of one off hard pain is the way rather than excessive non-balanced spending.

That's fine for a country with favorable momentum behind it, in terms of skilled young workforce, strong infrastructure, very strong exports, etc. You can see that it won't be very long to correct things. But for an under-developed region, you're talking generations. They need to be cultivated over many years.

 

[2be]

In any case, if we had it how could we enforce it? Could we trust Greece anymore? I believe that mutual trust and mutual sacrifice is essential. I don't think that it exists in Europe. Self interest is what drives us all.

Sadly, self interest married with laziness is a very powerful and destructive mixture.
It always goes against the the goals of happiness and prosperity desirable and achievable for the greatest number of people.
I am pleased and happy when I see other people are doing well, so this whole situation including Greece and a general world-wide raise of the most detestable dragon of socialism and political correctness does not feel me with a great dose of optimism.
Lets slay the dragon!

 

[2be]

How exactly would that change regional economies?? You'll still end up with under-performing regions; regions that still can't regionally devalue their currency. In fact it would get worse as there would be a strong tendency to focus on already successful areas. I really think, most people are not ready for sharing their wealth with under performing regions. So, to me the next best thing is for Germany to exit, leaving the remaining members more similar to each other; a more balanced union. Asking Greece to exit implies about half a dozen others also leaving soon. The objective is to harmonize the group.

I am sure that majority of Germans would like to exit both, Euro zone and the EU especially in its present form. Would they be given that chance in a democratic way of the referendum? I wander.
EU main institutions are in themselves slow and do not do much good, they need to reform, but the comfort they experience and their socialistic agenda makes them blind and dangerous for all of Europe.

 

[Splitlink]

How exactly would that change regional economies?? You'll still end up with under-performing regions; regions that still can't regionally devalue their currency. In fact it would get worse as there would be a strong tendency to focus on already successful areas. I really think, most people are not ready for sharing their wealth with under performing regions. So, to me the next best thing is for Germany to exit, leaving the remaining members more similar to each other; a more balanced union. Asking Greece to exit implies about half a dozen others also leaving soon. The objective is to harmonize the group.

There you go. If we bring regions into it, the equation becomes more difficult because they would have to be subsidised from one source, ie Brussels. Giving the subsidy to the nation's capital to share out does not seem to work.

Look up Cataluña. That is a region, but a wealthy one. They are voting on September 27. There is a large independent block among the parties and they have a good chace of winning. It is the same as Scotland, albeit for different reasons. They want separation from the Motherland BUT neither wants to leave the EU. It's a big bucket of worms when one considers the number of regions within Europe.

 

[barjon]

.....................I am sure that majority of Germans would like to exit both, Euro zone and the EU especially in its present form................

I be surprised if that were the case since Germany gains such an international trading advantage by working, in effect, with an undervalued currency. (Same as they did (like Japan) when their exchange rate was pegged for years and years after the war.

 

[jsc]

That is correct - but it does not change the fact the German PEOPLE perceive themselves to be propping up the Greek people.

Exchange rate advantages and currency risk are not prevalent in the average person's computations of the total sum of the components of the equation. So to speak.

 

[2be]

I be surprised if that were the case since Germany gains such an international trading advantage by working, in effect, with an undervalued currency. (Same as they did (like Japan) when their exchange rate was pegged for years and years after the war.

German public opinion about Euro and the EU is very critical and negative.
Every referendum is always charged with emotions and semantics, the true nature of available choices are well concealed by clever politicians. Eg the last referendum in Greece, and its "importance". In Germany like in the UK people are starting to see that the created EU institutions turned cancerous and the patient is seriously unwell. Shall we administer chemotherapy, stem-cell change, transfusion, amputation, is there a funeral insurance in place?
Of course Europe is not alone in that state of confusion.
I remember seeing a well obese man dressed in a shirt with a logo "Obama dream fulfilled" on the deserted streets of Detroit with empty dilapidated houses stretching further that one could see. I only suppose that again we are in this season of confusion. These seasons of confusion are well organised and always have had a purpose. I am fearful to ask what is the purpose of this current confusion, though without a doubt there is one!

 

[Pat494]

German public opinion about Euro and the EU is very critical and negative.
Every referendum is always charged with emotions and semantics, the true nature of available choices are well concealed by clever politicians. Eg the last referendum in Greece, and its "importance". In Germany like in the UK people are starting to see that the created EU institutions turned cancerous and the patient is seriously unwell. Shall we administer chemotherapy, stem-cell change, transfusion, amputation, is there a funeral insurance in place?
Of course Europe is not alone in that state of confusion.
I remember seeing a well obese man dressed in a shirt with a logo "Obama dream fulfilled" on the deserted streets of Detroit with empty dilapidated houses stretching further that one could see. I only suppose that again we are in this season of confusion. These seasons of confusion are well organised and always have had a purpose. I am fearful to ask what is the purpose of this current confusion, though without a doubt there is one!

Word must have got out that I was in the market for an island.

:cheesy:

 

[Atilla]

Word must have got out that I was in the market for an island.

:cheesy:

Would you like to buy my dingy to get to your Island - erm I meant yatch? :cheesy:

 

[Pat494]

Would you like to buy my dingy to get your Island - erm I meant yatch? :cheesy:

Thanks for the offer. But flying in with my helipopter might be easier.

 

[counter_violent]

It'll all end in tears....consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Multiculturalism is exactly the same.

People are tribal....and when they are put under pressure....we shouldn't be surprised when they explode.

 

[Pat494]

I saw the riots in Greece last night on the telly.
Hard to justify such violence imho. as it was their own fault. The extremist fringe I suppose using the occasion to further their own agenda ?

Theresa May has gone all soppy about water cannon. The rioters might get wet and catch a cold. Oh dear !

 

[jsc]

I disagree. I feel for the working man in Greece just trying to get on like most normal, functioning people and getting constantly sold down the river by his (or her) own politicians. They have a right to be angry. Why - do you presume the younger generation should pay for their predecessors mistakes?

Ask anyone under the age of 30 and I think the general reply to that question would consist of two words.

The last one is 'you'.

 

[Pat494]

I disagree. I feel for the working man in Greece just trying to get on like most normal, functioning people and getting constantly sold down the river by his (or her) own politicians. They have a right to be angry. Why - do you presume the younger generation should pay for their predecessors mistakes?

Ask anyone under the age of 30 and I think the general reply to that question would consist of two words.

The last one is 'you'.

OK so why don't they target the people who caused their mess and why did they elect another bunch of losers ? What about the fatcats with their takings in a foreign bank/country. Should they be brought back and forced to give back the millions they stole ?

 

[jsc]

That's not the point Pat, you can't blame people for being human. Most don't understand economics very well, they just want out. That's why they elected the current government. And they have been failed very badly, particularly in light of the referendum.
TBH I have a lot of sympathy for them atm.

 

[Pat494]

[/COLOR]

That's not the point Pat, you can't blame people for being human Ah that's where you are wrong. The people who are to blame, should be. even if it is to teach the rest a lesson.. While not suggesting being cruel but not just letting them off with a lame excuse either Most don't understand economics very well, they just want out. That's why they elected the current government. And they have been failed very badly, particularly in light of the referendum.
TBH I have a lot of sympathy for them atm.

Not going to give them all your lolly and rest under a hedge somewhere are you ?

 

[Pat494]

While Detroit could and should do tours of how not to run a city, the Greeks could add a tour of how not to run a country. Those that pushed Greece into the lion's cage might be well employed cleaning the public toilets in the centre of Athens for a year or two !

 

[jsc]

I see no need to start casting aspersions on those who are suffering because the generation before them destroyed their future.