Ftse Professional Scalping

new_trader

Well-known member
Jan 1, 2006
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#31
Just my 2 cents - don't want to get involved in a fight but I don't think it's really for anyone to say that something DOES or DOESN'T work and that includes indicators or spread betting for that matter.

I personally shun indicators and use pure price action and simple TA but I know some, albeit not many, people that use indicators as a main part of their strategy and are successful. One trader I know uses Woodies CCI which as far as I can tell puts the emphasis SOLELY on the indicator and can be traded without even looking at the candles.
That's fair enough Trader Dante. But note that I didn't mention anywhere in my post about whether indicators "work" or not. I said people who know what's what and what's not don't use indicators. You can use a brick, the heel of a shoe, the blunt end of an axe, a metal pipe or any other heavy instrument to drive a nail into a piece of wood because they "work", but those who know what's what and what's not use a hammer.

I simply asked for someone to explain the mechanics of an indicator and nobody who uses them and professes that they work has been able to do that. They are the product of a software engineer’s idea of what people want they are not what real traders ask for.

Same goes with spread betting. It has its advantages and disadvantages. I have used both spread betting AND direct market and each has its place. Infact I actually believe that unless you are a scalper it is EASIER to make money spread betting than direct market.
Sorry TD, but this makes no sense...easier? I say SB is non-professional and now you are telling me it's actually easier? You will have to explain that one...
 

trader_dante

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2005
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www.trader-dante.com
#33
Sorry TD, but this makes no sense...easier? I say SB is non-professional and now you are telling me it's actually easier? You will have to explain that one...
Some of the reasons I think spread betting is easier:

a) The firm will always take the other side of your trade meaning you never have any liquidity issues. If you've ever spread bet a product like Natural Gas and then actually seen a direct market ladder for it you'll realise how much of a blessing this is.

b) Yes SB firms platforms freeze from time to time. So do exchanges. I've been at my prop firm for just under five months and so far we've had the exchanges go down twice with traders trapped in positions.

c) SB firms keep fixed spreads. In the direct market, the participants have direct control of who will provide the best bid and offer. The spread on GBP/USD stays at 3 for me with E*Trade on non-farm payrolls. On my direct market, the spread can widen to five times this at least.

d) Direct market limits you to contract sizes. Spread betting does not. This means that if 2% of your account is £204 you can position your risk almost PERFECTLY.

e) SB firms make MISTAKES. This is rare in the direct market. I see SB firms regularly misquote prices and when they do I clean up :)
 

new_trader

Well-known member
Jan 1, 2006
6,166
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#34
Some of the reasons I think spread betting is easier:

a) The firm will always take the other side of your trade meaning you never have any liquidity issues. If you've ever spread bet a product like Natural Gas and then actually seen a direct market ladder for it you'll realise how much of a blessing this is.

How does someone who ONLY has a S/B account know this? Besides, commodity prices, like any other instrument are essentially driven by demand and supply.

b) Yes SB firms platforms freeze from time to time. So do exchanges. I've been at my prop firm for just under five months and so far we've had the exchanges go down twice with traders trapped in positions.
Ok, so they both suffer the same risk of platform freezes. How does this make S/B easier to make money?

c) SB firms keep fixed spreads. In the direct market, the participants have direct control of who will provide the best bid and offer. The spread on GBP/USD stays at 3 for me with E*Trade on non-farm payrolls. On my direct market, the spread can widen to five times this at least.
How does this make it "easier" for someone with only a S/B account make a winning trade?

d) Direct market limits you to contract sizes. Spread betting does not. This means that if 2% of your account is £204 you can position your risk almost PERFECTLY.
This is irrelevant. Are you saying that someone with £200,000 will be worried about minimum contract size?

e) SB firms make MISTAKES. This is rare in the direct market. I see SB firms regularly misquote prices and when they do I clean up :)
And again, how does this make it "easier" to make money for someone with only a S/B account?
 

prop

Active member
Apr 30, 2008
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#35
"You have to be in control of the chart",

are you controlling the chart via the spread bet platform ?

what sort of size do i need to control the chart ?
 

cryten

Active member
Nov 16, 2006
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Bournemouth
#36
Geez I thought this forum had some integrity. Whole lot of you jumped in like wolves without any evidence what so ever. George explained clearly he was looking for someone to trade his funds if there was later to be some catch I'm sure the interested party would have updated this thread. Really vicious and appalling (n)
 

tightstops

Active member
Aug 2, 2006
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#38
Geez I thought this forum had some integrity. Whole lot of you jumped in like wolves without any evidence what so ever. George explained clearly he was looking for someone to trade his funds if there was later to be some catch I'm sure the interested party would have updated this thread. Really vicious and appalling (n)
vicious and appaling wh\t a crock o shyte someone whos talking about scalping via spread betting if an indicater points up is obviously going to get some stick if hes tsalking about teaching people
 
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2George

Active member
Nov 30, 2005
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#39
tightstop

As you know I have offered to share with you my experience but you have chosen not to bother yet you continue to post these rude and ignorant comments.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE AND RUDENESS.
If you have something that works for you then stay with it. I have no problem with the way you choose to trade. Also I know that there are many ways to make money trading. It is just that I have my own way that I consider to be one of the safest and most accurate.
I am a relatively patient person but if I see any further rude comments like this one and I will report you to the administrator.
George
vicious and appaling wh\t a crock o shyte someone whos talking about scalping via spread betting if an indicater points up is obviously going to get some stick if hes tsalking about teaching people
 

prop

Active member
Apr 30, 2008
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#40
go for gold george do your worst !
 

cryten

Active member
Nov 16, 2006
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Bournemouth
#41
vicious and appaling wh\t a crock o shyte someone whos talking about scalping via spread betting if an indicater points up is obviously going to get some stick if hes tsalking about teaching people
Well that's a shame especially as I know enough traders who manage to do just that. But Yeah Price action man, indicators are useless and only pros use fibs and PA. Which is rubbish if that were the case we would have all cottoned on and be minted by now, the reason it's not is the same with indicators, there is some skill required for this game whatever way you wish to play it.

Anyway bored of the same old disgruntled keyboard warrior schpeel. Ciao!
 

Aspire

Active member
Apr 16, 2008
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#42
Personally, for what it's worth, I'm dubious.

I scalp FTSE futures for a living and results suggest I'm reasonably good at it.... but

1) If I had to use a SB firm instead of TT I would be fcucked

2) I'm yet to be convinced there is an indicator which can help me.

However, this guy isn't asking for any money so far, and he's offering his own funds to trade with so I for one am keeping am open mind and would be very interested in what he's got to say.


Also, TD, I understand why you might think trading longer time frames (for which spread betting offers less of a handicap) may be easier to learn but I strongly disagree that it is easier to make money spread betting than trading with direct maket access.

Some of the reasons I think spread betting is easier:

a) The firm will always take the other side of your trade meaning you never have any liquidity issues. If you've ever spread bet a product like Natural Gas and then actually seen a direct market ladder for it you'll realise how much of a blessing this is.

But how wide is the spread on NG with an SB firm and what is the maximum size they will take. This game is all about exploiting inneficiencies and if someone will give you a better spread than the live market and will take size they are just asking to be ripped apart.


b) Yes SB firms platforms freeze from time to time. So do exchanges. I've been at my prop firm for just under five months and so far we've had the exchanges go down twice with traders trapped in positions.

Yep, it's a bitch for us all.

c) SB firms keep fixed spreads. In the direct market, the participants have direct control of who will provide the best bid and offer. The spread on GBP/USD stays at 3 for me with E*Trade on non-farm payrolls. On my direct market, the spread can widen to five times this at least.

But the majority of the time on the majority of markets you will be hard pressed to find a SB quote that's better than the live market is offering.... I have never tried spread betting over NFP but can you really get filled at such a good price as the figure is released? If so this is another ineficiency we should all be exploiting.


d) Direct market limits you to contract sizes. Spread betting does not. This means that if 2% of your account is £204 you can position your risk almost PERFECTLY.

Agreed, but soon you'll be doing bigger size and this will cease to be a problem.

e) SB firms make MISTAKES. This is rare in the direct market. I see SB firms regularly misquote prices and when they do I clean up :)

Good on you, but I would say this is a matter of taking advantage of the SB firm's mistakes rather than their platform improving the efficiency of your trading. However, although the direct market, of course, cannot make mistakes, it's participats often do some pretty silly things and I firmly believe I am better positioned to take advantage of these using TT than I would be with a spread betting platform.
 

nine

Well-known member
Sep 5, 2003
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#44
Also, TD, I understand why you might think trading longer time frames (for which spread betting offers less of a handicap) may be easier to learn but I strongly disagree that it is easier to make money spread betting than trading with direct maket access.
I'm not a fan of spreadbetters because of the potential for self-interested distortions but I can see trader_dante's point. If you are a UK resident then spreadbetting is tax free. If you trade a long enough time frame then the spreads and distortions are relative noise and thus just a larger commission. In this case the lack of tax on my profits would be much more important the sum of the obvious and hidden commissions.

Thus spread betting could be a better choice for (say) a profitable UK swing trader.

In scalping on the other hand the spreads and distortions might well **** one up the ****. (OK RE :))
 
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Aspire

Active member
Apr 16, 2008
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#45
Gents,
with my Advisor hat dusted off, can I ask for everyone to take a deep breath and chill with the abuse and language please.
Let's see where this is going, but let's keep it civil

r_e
My appoligies for the language and any offense I may have caused.

My post was not intended to be abusive. Having spent way to much time browsing these boards I have a great deal of respect for Trader_Dante. I was just tring to argue why I prefer direct access... and I hope I was encouraging the OP to continue.