FTSE Futures Vs Cash

[pb8856]

Does anyone know if there is any good reason to trade the FTSE futures over the cash market ? I have encountered a couple of books/forum posts that have suggested trading on price action on the futures markets is more reliable and that the futures market is more likely to close gaps.

Opinions anyone ?

 

[MartinC-J]

Depends on your trading account. I prefer the futures market to trade instead of the cash market. Cash market is traded with a spreadbetting firm and you use their price feed and not the market. If you are swing trading then cash market is fine, but for scalping and short term trades, stick to the futures price. Problem with Futures is the smallest you can do is £10 per point. Whereas cash market can be as little as 50p per pt. I use Open Ecry to trade the FTSE. Good luck.

 

[SuddenDeath]

what is the "cash market" ?

 

[Pazienza]

Yes. Futures you are actually trading something, cash you are not.

 

[MartinC-J]

In a small room under the IG Index offices, there is a small group of geezers in trench coats with wads of cash in their hand. Between them, they fix the cash price of the FTSE and send it out on their data feed for spreadbetters to trade against. Sometimes they even let spreadbetters win. Allegedly!

 

[SuddenDeath]

In a small room under the IG Index offices, there is a small group of geezers in trench coats with wads of cash in their hand. Between them, they fix the cash price of the FTSE and send it out on their data feed for spreadbetters to trade against. Sometimes they even let spreadbetters win. Allegedly!

dear sir, you sound a little bitter

 

[Pazienza]

dear sir, you sound a little bitter

It's true though.

Like right now, ES is around 1289. But if you're punting on S&P 500, let's say long, they could say some sh1t like "Oh, it just went down to 12.25. Sorry about that". Now, nobody can try that sh1t with ES, because of the exchange and that. You go to them "What the f***? I'm calling the CME motherf***ers.". And then they're like, "Oh sh1t, our mistake".

But with their cash boll0cks? They can p1ss on your head and tell you it's rainin'.

 

[SuddenDeath]

It's true though.

Like right now, ES is around 1289. But if you're punting on S&P 500, let's say long, they could say some sh1t like "Oh, it just went down to 12.25. Sorry about that". Now, nobody can try that sh1t with ES, because of the exchange and that. You go to them "What the f***? I'm calling the CME motherf***ers.". And then they're like, "Oh sh1t, our mistake".

But with their cash boll0cks? They can p1ss on your head and tell you it's rainin'.

good points, the futures are great but can also be manipulated, its just that the manipulation is done by bigger badder people

 

[Pazienza]

good points, the futures are great but can also be manipulated, its just that the manipulation is done by bigger badder people

Absolutely. But that we can profit from. Manipulation is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[pb8856]

futures it is then, thanks for the help everyone

 

[SuddenDeath]

futures it is then, thanks for the help everyone

also remember that gains from futures trading are taxable but gains on spread betting are tax free.

 

[Pazienza]

also remember that gains from futures trading are taxable but gains on spread betting are tax free.

True, but there are SB versions of them. IG do them, or you can use the sort of SB / DMA hybrid thing that Prospreads and ibetfinancials offer.

 

[SuddenDeath]

True, but there are SB versions of them. IG do them, or you can use the sort of SB / DMA hybrid thing that Prospreads and ibetfinancials offer.

. that kind of defeats the object of this discussion. futures because it is "real market" , SB quotes generated by 20 monkeys in the cellar.

 

[Pazienza]

. that kind of defeats the object of this discussion. futures because it is "real market" , SB quotes generated by 20 monkeys in the cellar.

LOL

IBF say that they don't do any order matching or anything at all. They claim to simply receive your order and place a corresponding one in the market. Technically, you are placing a bet with them, but in effect you will be trading in the underlying market. So they just offer a nifty tax-efficient wrapper, but with no interference.

I don't know if it's true, but that's their pitch.

The other thing is I don't think a standard SB company can monkey with the price too much, because there is a proper exchange where you can see the prices. I've checked IG on this and to be fair there was little appreciable difference.

 

[Splitlink]

In a small room under the IG Index offices, there is a small group of geezers in trench coats with wads of cash in their hand. Between them, they fix the cash price of the FTSE and send it out on their data feed for spreadbetters to trade against. Sometimes they even let spreadbetters win. Allegedly!

I don't know how much of your explanation is correct but it is obvious that you have a bias towards brokers over spreadbetting firms. which is ok, I have no problem with that. I trade cash and have done for years. I, also, have an account with a broker and, to be honest, since I trade indices almost exclusively, I can' be bothered with the broker any more.

When I was in a chatroom several years ago I became friendly, if that can be possible with an anonymous poster on a forum, with another who had a broker account and traded futures. Sometimes we compared our trades and decided that there was a lot of talk but the reality was that there was little difference between points lost or gained.

 

[Splitlink]

As a matter of interest, what is a real market in FTSE, Dax, Dow or anything else? Can you exercise them, as you can with a share? The fact is, you can't, so I see no point in "trading" them against "betting" them.

This is gambling, whichever way it is looked at, and the future is based on a gamble that closes on exercise day.

 

[SuddenDeath]

As a matter of interest, what is a real market in FTSE, Dax, Dow or anything else? Can you exercise them, as you can with a share? The fact is, you can't, so I see no point in "trading" them against "betting" them.

This is gambling, whichever way it is looked at, and the future is based on a gamble that closes on exercise day.

I have gleaned from this discussion that a "real market" is the spread betters daily indices bets

 

[Splitlink]

I am someone who does not know too much about a "real market" in indices. I have checked Finspreads index against my share broker's FTSE when I have been debating the point with another poster and, if there is a difference there, it has to be for the very sophisticated big traders to be concerned with. I can't be bothered and, in addition, it must be remembered that thousands are needed to open an account with a broker instead of hundreds with a SB company.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to get references from posters on here about whether they are satisfied with their dealer and go from there. You'd be surprised at how many reputable posters there are who spreadbet.

 

[SuddenDeath]

I am someone who does not know too much about a "real market" in indices. I have checked Finspreads index against my share broker's FTSE when I have been debating the point with another poster and, if there is a difference there, it has to be for the very sophisticated big traders to be concerned with. I can't be bothered and, in addition, it must be remembered that thousands are needed to open an account with a broker instead of hundreds with a SB company.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to get references from posters on here about whether they are satisfied with their dealer and go from there. You'd be surprised at how many reputable posters there are who spreadbet.

splitlink why don't traders create their own spread betting firm, all you need is a phone number and some computers. they would undercut everyone and the conventional brokers would be driven out of business.

 

[brewski1984]

How much would it cost to open your own spread betting site? Millions?