Flaming and general bad behaviour on the site.

[roguetrader]

Flaming is the performance "art" of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting, usually in the social context of a discussion board (usually on the Internet).

Flaming is the sending of messages that include bad language or repeat messaging especially of undesirable or obscene text. Flaming (also known as flame wars) occurs in unmoderated chat rooms.

To verbally attack someone online in a chat with harsh, unnecessary words.

I think a point to make is that flaming does not have to involve "bad language" insulting people using "polite" language should be no more acceptable.


I notice a discussion has started on one of the options threads, and I notice poor old barjon trying to decide, given it has no real relevance trading wise to the thread whether to let it continue, perhaps it requires a thread of it's own. I would not wish this to be a thread about any individual, but rather a thread perhaps expressing what the community members think is desirable and undesirable behaviour in posting

 

[Crap Buddist]

Well, maybe if the person on the end of the abuse or recepient of the flaming was just to say..

"Off Topic" maybe that would help. although would depend on the volley back I guess.

Its not off topic , yes it is, you want some then,, ping, pow ,troooooff.......

raise awareness, will that help, ? back to maybe adopting support positive posting avatars or something?

Although its a trading forum, its also discussion, so maybe a visable sign for members may help with discussion etiquette or something.

policing the community, hmmm always been a toughie....

 

[dbphoenix]

You'll notice, however, that all of this centers around two members. Even if the membership rolls are greatly overstated, there are at least hundreds of regular posters, nearly all of whom know how to behave in what is generally thought of as a discussion forum (as opposed to, say, controntation tv or radio). There may be "general bad behavior", but I'm not aware of it.

Db

 

[Crap Buddist]

How about this sweet cherry.

on all posts there would be an Off Topic , button option, and say a rate of x members votes (5-10 ,strictly on the Q.T. of course?) would remove it as off topic, that would help out the mods, and of course the mods ,who cant be everywhere at once, would have the option to remove it straight away.

more member interaction , to keep things tidy, keep it real.....

what do you think, do you like it...... ?

 

[dbphoenix]

If you're asking me, I don't see the necessity of instituting more complexity to deal with a problem that stems from so few. I find t2w to be remarkably civil. But one must wash only one red sock amongst the whites in order to ruin the whole load.

What I've found odd is that one can be as rude and obnoxious as one wants to be as long as he doesn't have an alias. I guess it's a British thing.

Db

 

[Crap Buddist]

Well, I was asking all members ,as in you the members, but one or 2 or 3 polluted threads may be enough to drive off current and importantly as well new members, eyeballing the proceedings....

Hopefully with the off topic option, members themselves are likely to nip things in the bud, and people will know. T2W really cool, they self regulate....

I would like to think, that we all post apropriately, including myself, but at times we may not, but in any mixed community, people can "Have a word like" and the off topic option would be members "Having that word".

even the very presence of the Off Topic, may enough of a deterent without the need for Nuclear Weapons or Defcon status alerts to be raised.

Its the peoples new trident for Bulletin Boards.

It could be very Wonderfuls & Powerfuls as its use as a peace keeper and Maker.

 

[Splitlink]

If you're asking me, I don't see the necessity of instituting more complexity to deal with a problem that stems from so few. I find t2w to be remarkably civil. But one must wash only one red sock amongst the whites in order to ruin the whole load.

What I've found odd is that one can be as rude and obnoxious as one wants to be as long as he doesn't have an alias. I guess it's a British thing.Db

No, it's not a British thing, but there does not seem to be an effective way of combating the problem. If people are banned, they seem to come back under another alias. This is a general "couldn't care less" decadency in the everyday behaviour of human life and it is happening outside of the web, litter in the streets, graffiti, etc. Most of the time it is a resentment against anyone who is better off and the perpetrators make the place less attractive, if they can. It is frustrating to the majority, but there seems to be no answer.

Split

 

[Crap Buddist]

I think ive overlooked the significance of the obvious, its screaming at me..... here it is.

Rename the Report Bad Post, to Off Topic Post. that will get used more often, whether they can programme to remove after x votes then all the better.......

 

[roguetrader]

Part of the problem seems that as long as you are "politely rude" by this I mean an absence of profanity / vulgarity then you can skip around the boards insulting whoever you like, tasteful insults if you like. All this behaviour is of course contrary to the site guidelines, but the penalties are not enforced. Disagreeing with someone does not require name calling to back up the point.

 

[dbphoenix]

Well, I was asking all members ,as in you the members, but one or 2 or 3 polluted threads may be enough to drive off current and importantly as well new members, eyeballing the proceedings....

Hopefully with the off topic option, members themselves are likely to nip things in the bud, and people will know. T2W really cool, they self regulate....

I would like to think, that we all post apropriately, including myself, but at times we may not, but in any mixed community, people can "Have a word like" and the off topic option would be members "Having that word".

even the very presence of the Off Topic, may enough of a deterent without the need for Nuclear Weapons or Defcon status alerts to be raised.

Its the peoples new trident for Bulletin Boards.

It could be very Wonderfuls & Powerfuls as its use as a peace keeper and Maker.

Yes, new and current members are driven off, which is, again, unfortunate. But these are the choices that The Powers make. And it is, after all, their site.

As to whether a post is labelled "bad" or "off topic", I see no practical difference if nothing is done about it until another 40 or 60 or 80 posts are made as a result of the post. The objective -- to disrupt or kill the discussion -- is accomplished. In the same way, "ignore" doesn't work if you use it and others don't. The discussion is repeatedly disrupted anyway. The person being ignored, if neurotic enough, has a need to be acknowledged, and he will be acknowledged one way or another regardless.

So, eventually, one just says to hell with it until the troll finds something more interesting to do with his time.

Db

 

[dbphoenix]

No, it's not a British thing, but there does not seem to be an effective way of combating the problem. If people are banned, they seem to come back under another alias. This is a general "couldn't care less" decadency in the everyday behaviour of human life and it is happening outside of the web, litter in the streets, graffiti, etc. Most of the time it is a resentment against anyone who is better off and the perpetrators make the place less attractive, if they can. It is frustrating to the majority, but there seems to be no answer.

Split

Well, actually, there is an answer. But it takes a certain will to implement it.

Db

 

[ammo]

since this is a democratic thread,and you have reply and good post at the bottom ,you could have delete comment,if that was hit a certain # of times that comment would be voted off,if that poster was deleted enuf times he would be barred,it takes all the weight off of barjons shoulders

 

[dbphoenix]

I think ive overlooked the significance of the obvious, its screaming at me..... here it is.

Rename the Report Bad Post, to Off Topic Post. that will get used more often, whether they can programme to remove after x votes then all the better.......

The suggestion to remove a post after a certain number of votes has been been suggested before but never acted upon. Why, I don't know. At least one might not have to wait for dozens of posts to go by before some sort of action is taken. And the question of banning would become largely moot.

Db

 

[wasp]

There has always been a handful of posters that come and then get banned and give up and vanish. Except one or 2 maybe.

Is all this really necessary? The blame can't just be laid with the bad poster either. If everyone didn't swarm around and chuck in their 2 cents worth as well, then the problems wouldn't exist IMO. I have read the vanilla thread and I stayed out of it. I know what Soc is like. If newbies are dumb enough to take up writing only because one poster on a BB suggested it they deserve to lose money.

Look back through the archives. Hundreds of threads with a handful of crap, the guilty parties no longer to be seen........ Thirteen, Salty gibbon, BBB, Rudeboy etc...

Walk away from the flaming and the thread will die off. Post on the constructive threads instead.

So far this year, how many threads have really had problems?

 

[roguetrader]

I think ive overlooked the significance of the obvious, its screaming at me..... here it is.

Rename the Report Bad Post, to Off Topic Post. that will get used more often, whether they can programme to remove after x votes then all the better.......

\it's an interesting idea CB which sems worthy of a trial at least

 

[trendie]

there are some "admin" activities as a consequence of this self-regulatory method.

it assumes the number of readers (lurkers) and writers to a thread are high enough for the number of "delete" clocks to register. (there are some rather esoteric threads still, eg, "Disproving Fib" or something like that, that have too few readers/posters to trigger a delete, should the need arise.)

the number of critical-mass of "delete" clicks may take some time to register, by which time many responses to the original offending post have appeared. You will still need barjon (must seem like a full-time job) to "trim" the peripheral posts as well as a tidying up activity, which means human intervention.

the "report bad post" is ideal for immediate action, such as spammers selling all manner of garbage.
stuff like that needs killing off immediately.

I think FXscalper2 appraoch of just banning unilaterally seems so elegantly simple.
(if I was paying for the site, and its upkeep, and my home and income depended on it, I know where my focus would be.)

yes, believe in democracy, and all that, but this sites revenue is paying the owners mortgage, dont forget.

nice ideas, but the solutions can easily be got around. better to go fix the cause, rather than effect.
some would leave in disgust, most would stay, and newbies would be none the wiser.

EDIT: cant believe I posted that crap!! The unnamed in question certainly casts a long shadow.

 

[dbphoenix]

There has always been a handful of posters that come and then get banned and give up and vanish. Except one or 2 maybe.

Is all this really necessary? The blame can't just be laid with the bad poster either. If everyone didn't swarm around and chuck in their 2 cents worth as well, then the problems wouldn't exist IMO.

But people love a good show. The impulse that made the Roman Coliseum a success is still here. The thread starter, however, gets frustrated by the failure of his repeated attempts to get things back on topic. After a while, he sees no upside to trying again. So he doesn't. And there are others who don't even start.

So whether the blame is shared or not, the potential thread starter sees no point in making the effort, and everyone suffers. I admire those, particularly in the Journals Forum, who press on regardless, but they are in the minority.

Db

 

[roguetrader]

Is all this really necessary? The blame can't just be laid with the bad poster either. If everyone didn't swarm around and chuck in their 2 cents worth as well, then the problems wouldn't exist IMO. I have read the vanilla thread and I stayed out of it. I know what Soc is like.
Look back through the archives. Hundreds of threads with a handful of crap, the guilty parties no longer to be seen........ Thirteen, Salty gibbon, BBB, Rudeboy etc...

Walk away from the flaming and the thread will die off. Post on the constructive threads instead.

So far this year, how many threads have really had problems?

I can see ur point, up to a point. However this is a look the other way approach that perpetuates the problem. Turn the other cheek is a noble sentiment, but generally results in 2 red cheeks instead of one..
If you lay down rules then it is your duty and responsibilty imho to enforce those rules. Failing to do so has a knock on effect way beyond anything the rule maker ever likely imagined. Human beings for whatever reason by their nature will push rules to the limit and beyond if allowed, that is a direct challenge to those who make the rules, if they will not rise to the challenge and enforce the rules then they may as well not exist, it is a slow and steady road to anarchy. Society as a whole does seem to some extent to have adopted this idea that as long as some sort of behaviour is in the minority then it is safe to ignore, the trouble with this is that by the time it has spread to the majority, it is too big a problem to attack. Imagine if ur doctor said "Well it's only a little tumor, come back in si months when it's much bigger and then we'll have a go at giving it what for.

 

[DaveJB]

Make your "delete/remove off topic post" button up, but move the post to a different thread, because a 'low viewer count' thread won't garner enough votes to remove something that needs to go, whilst the 'colloseum and tigers' thread will probably have enough of the mad crowd in it to vote off anyone who disagrees with them... perhaps the off topic post (once identified as such) could simply be a single line listing at the screen bottom, so anyone wishing to read it could click the line to pull it up?

You see, what really bothers me here is the potential for misuse - for all the deplorable aggro involved at times, I would not want to see it made too easy for people to organise censorship of opposing views.

 

[dbphoenix]

Make your "delete/remove off topic post" button up, but move the post to a different thread, because a 'low viewer count' thread won't garner enough votes to remove something that needs to go, whilst the 'colloseum and tigers' thread will probably have enough of the mad crowd in it to vote off anyone who disagrees with them... perhaps the off topic post (once identified as such) could simply be a single line listing at the screen bottom, so anyone wishing to read it could click the line to pull it up?

You see, what really bothers me here is the potential for misuse - for all the deplorable aggro involved at times, I would not want to see it made too easy for people to organise censorship of opposing views.

As roguetrader points out, it's a lot simpler and easier to deal with the cause rather than focus chronic and perpetual attention on the symptom.

Fascinating, though, how Albert meets his attention-seeking goals even when he isn't here

Db