Fear of missing out

  • Welcome to the newest version of Trade2Win! We're running on the latest version of, what we consider to be, the best forum software available today. Our aim was to keep things as familiar as possible but focus on improving speed, security and usability. We hope you like the result! Please post your questions, comments, suggestions and feedback in the What's New and Feedback Thread - Sharky.

FXX

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2017
1,102
175
73
#21
Indeed, but I expect they are going to have their work cut out with this One. Disruptive, decentralised and controlled by no one.:)
No government is going to allow fiat money to be overridden by a currency they have no control over. It undermines central banks ability to maintain price stability and governments can't just print more of it. They also are not going to allow this to be a loophole for laundering or terrorist avenues to funding. Enjoy the ride while it lasts and get out while it's good.
 
Aug 21, 2004
8,938
2,244
323
Manchester
#22
No government is going to allow fiat money to be overridden by a currency they have no control over. It undermines central banks ability to maintain price stability and governments can't just print more of it. They also are not going to allow this to be a loophole for laundering or terrorist avenues to funding. Enjoy the ride while it lasts and get out while it's good.
The challenge will be how to stop it. Unless there is worldwide consensus, it will be impossible. We all know that there will never be consensus don't we!

BTW. Govt's and central bankers are crooks, just in case that has escaped your attention.

https://dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/

Might I also suggest you read up on fiat currencies, who's value is backed up by nothing.
 
Likes: DrSafari

Brumby

Well-known member
May 25, 2012
600
136
53
#24
There is a well known quote which I think is appropriate regarding the "bitcon" mania “There are three types of people in this world. Firstly, there are people who make things happen. Then there are people who watch things happen. Lastly, there are people who ask, what happened?

Bitcoin has entered a parabolic phase IMO not different to any we have seen in history when it is in a parabolic ascend. We have seen it during the tulip mania; the dotcom era; commodities in terminal phase; and very often in small cap stocks. Speculators see an opportunity to make quick money during this phase provided they also manage the enhanced risk. There is even a parabolic tool available in some charting software that allows you to draw a parabolic curve. As long as prices stay within the curve you stay in the trade. Parabolic moves normally last longer than usually perceived but once it exhaust it tanks even quicker. That is the nature of the beast.

In my view, trying to rationalise the fundamental reasons for the rise is flawed. Blockchain is a technology and unproven in a larger commercial sense. Linking Bitcoin to blockchain in my view is conflating a technology platform with a speculative instrument that serves a niche market. If you wish to speculate in an instrument that is in a parabolic state then trade it as such and know what the exit triggers are. The worst position to be in is trying to justify why you are still holding on to something fundamentally when it is tanking. If you are investing in it because of the potential blockchain technology, then the fundamental question is why is Bitcoin the surrogate valuation of blockchain technology as often seems to be the argument?
 

FXX

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2017
1,102
175
73
#25
The challenge will be how to stop it. Unless there is worldwide consensus, it will be impossible. We all know that there will never be consensus don't we!

BTW. Govt's and central bankers are crooks, just in case that has escaped your attention.

https://dailyreckoning.com/fiat-currency/

Might I also suggest you read up on fiat currencies, who's value is backed up by nothing.

No challenge at all. Simply slap regulation on it or make it illegal like ponzi schemes. As for consensus, no government wants its currency undermined and pressure will be applied to those that don't comply
 
Aug 21, 2004
8,938
2,244
323
Manchester
#26
No challenge at all. Simply slap regulation on it or make it illegal like ponzi schemes. As for consensus, no government wants its currency undermined and pressure will be applied to those that don't comply
This thread is supposed to be about crypto currencies and yet here we are debating fiat currencies.

Since 2008 ALL govt's have been in a currency race to the bottom. Devaluation in order to inflate their way out of debt.

Fiat currencies are the biggest ponzi scheme going.

Govt's in collusion with central banks are stealing everyone's money. It's not even up for debate, it's a fact.
 

FXX

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2017
1,102
175
73
#27
This thread is supposed to be about crypto currencies and yet here we are debating fiat currencies.

Since 2008 ALL govt's have been in a currency race to the bottom. Devaluation in order to inflate their way out of debt.

Fiat currencies are the biggest ponzi scheme going.

Govt's in collusion with central banks are stealing everyone's money. It's not even up for debate, it's a fact.
they sure are "stealing". It pays for the infrastructure and services we need. The race to the bottom is one of many tools central banks use to stimulate economies.2008 introduced a significant factor that was last felt in WW2. I am referring to the coordinated contractions.

Fiat money is a ponzi scheme only to the extent that it is created by banks in the form of credit. This is an intended design after the gold system. Without money creation we would be back to square one where we can't increase the supply. Banks play this crucial role and to most people its a scam but if this is the case then what is the solution? a system with a finite supply isn't the answer.
 
Likes: Quantt
Aug 21, 2004
8,938
2,244
323
Manchester
#28
they sure are "stealing". It pays for the infrastructure and services we need. The race to the bottom is one of many tools central banks use to stimulate economies.2008 introduced a significant factor that was last felt in WW2. I am referring to the coordinated contractions.

Fiat money is a ponzi scheme only to the extent that it is created by banks in the form of credit. This is an intended design after the gold system. Without money creation we would be back to square one where we can't increase the supply. Banks play this crucial role and to most people its a scam but if this is the case then what is the solution? a system with a finite supply isn't the answer.
That's why I think there is room for cryptos. Fiat ponzi which is not a store of wealth along side cryptos, gold, land, real estate etc. It's just another asset class which seems to have a following.
I can perfectly understand the hostility towards cryptos and many people will be burned, but there will also be those who clean up and bail at the right time. As with all things, winners and losers.
 

brewski1984

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2010
2,025
342
93
#29
It seems almost certain that one day physical money will not exist and a digital global currency will. Something like bitcoin surely has to be the future but right now it's just being traded on emotions and herd mentality?
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
945
54
38
#30
It seems almost certain that one day physical money will not exist and a digital global currency will. Something like bitcoin surely has to be the future but right now it's just being traded on emotions and herd mentality?
The problem is that bitcoin is not a currency, but a commodity... The limited supply is making it so... There is no incentive to spend it, just to hoard it... It will never be a global currency, unless you can deflate it to entice people to spend it...
 
Likes: Brumby

Brumby

Well-known member
May 25, 2012
600
136
53
#31
Cryptocurrency has no intrinsic value unlike traditional currencies. In simplistic terms, it is just a digitised medium to facilitate financial transactions. In the case of Bitcoin, demand is fueled by speculation and since supply is capped this invariably drives the unit price upwards. However in any free market, opportunities attract threats in the form of surrogates e.g. Ethereum et al. Blockchain technology itself is not a barrier to entry for any commercial entity willing to commit resources in building an exchange. This means, the supply of exchanges offering crypto is only limited by the commercial opportunities. In other words, supply will eventually normalise pricing in the supply demand equation. Those holding a view that somehow Bitcoin would only have a one way trajectory should reexamine their rationale because when you have thousands of Bitcoin type crypto exchanges offering their own version of crypto what would happen to valuation? It simply boils down to supply and demand and the flip side is that the number of exchanges can be theoretically unlimited.

For those currently trading Bitcoin, I would ask just one simple question. What is your trade plan to exit your position be it to take profits or to protect your capital?
 

brewski1984

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2010
2,025
342
93
#32
For those currently trading Bitcoin, I would ask just one simple question. What is your trade plan to exit your position be it to take profits or to protect your capital?
Nobody seems to want to answer that.

Like it or not though, as traders shouldn’t we be looking for opportunities to make money? Regardless of what Bitcoin actually is and how much it’s fundamentally worth it is surely being traded on emotion and herd mentality right now... isn’t there an opportunity to make money from that? It might be a bubble but if the whole world is driving the price up, shouldn’t us “traders” that have (hopefully) a little bit more knowledge than most of the world that hasn’t got a clue, use that to our advantage?

Which brokers offer Spreadbets on bitcoin? CMC don’t have it

Edit: I see etx capital offer it, does anyone use etx and what are they like?
 
Last edited:

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
945
54
38
#35
Which brokers offer Spreadbets on bitcoin? CMC don’t have it
That's the problem isn't it?

There are no regulated exchanges with the government protection where you can transfer let's say 6 digits account, so you can start to trade and make money...
Your risk is that the exchange can get hacked tomorrow or the owner can disappear with the money or worst you can be a victim of market manipulation and lose it all with no way of getting your money back...
Even the comparison with the dot com bubble is not good, because we traded on the regulated market and we were protected by the government and this is not the case here, so I don't care if it goes to 1 mil tomorrow or next year, I am not risking my hard earned money for this when I have much better choices...
 

brewski1984

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2010
2,025
342
93
#38
That's the problem isn't it?

There are no regulated exchanges with the government protection where you can transfer let's say 6 digits account, so you can start to trade and make money...
Your risk is that the exchange can get hacked tomorrow or the owner can disappear with the money or worst you can be a victim of market manipulation and lose it all with no way of getting your money back...
Even the comparison with the dot com bubble is not good, because we traded on the regulated market and we were protected by the government and this is not the case here, so I don't care if it goes to 1 mil tomorrow or next year, I am not risking my hard earned money for this when I have much better choices...
If you've got 6 digits to put in an account, surely it's worth buying just 1 Bitcoin for a small punt? There are a few spread betting brokers that offer it and it seems a far less riskier way to trade it than actually buying one provided you don't abuse leverage (Brewski!). I haven't looked into how wide the spreads are or the costs involved to see if it's an efficient way but at least you won't get hacked. I fully understand that for people focusing on risk it makes absolutely no sense.

How many bitcoins are actually out there now? How many more can reasonably be mined?

I know NOTHING about it.
I thought there was only a certain amount but apparently there's hard forks where they can just decide to split it and double it?
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
945
54
38
#39
How many bitcoins are actually out there now? How many more can reasonably be mined?

I know NOTHING about it.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

The more interesting question is how many were given for "free" in the begging and how many are being held by Satoshi and others like him...

As you know by now, I am quite a bit paranoid when it comes to the internet security (part of the job description), so I wont be surprised one bit, if the whole thing is in fact a CIA operation in order to combat terrorist (and criminal in some cases) financing with the illusion of border/government free and untraceable currency (which is a quite a contradiction to the block chain technology powering the whole thing)... Very very similar MO to the dark web tor browser made by the US Naval intelligence
 

Quantt

Active member
Jul 23, 2017
945
54
38
#40
If you've got 6 digits to put in an account, surely it's worth buying just 1 Bitcoin for a small punt? There are a few spread betting brokers that offer it and it seems a far less riskier way to trade it than actually buying one provided you don't abuse leverage (Brewski!).
It is against my principals to gamble like that, so buying or not one bit coin will not change my life one way or the other, not to mention if I bought 1 for let's say $30, I would have sold it already long time ago... for the ultimate gambling reward I am in my office lottery pool and diligently putting my $2 every week...

Frankly, I don't know how spread betting actually works, looks like English thing, so I cannot comment on it, I was talking about straight trading bit coins on actual exchange... not to mention one of my other rules is to not use leverage, so right here it is a no go for me...
 
Likes: brewski1984