Europe's Liberation Started With Brexit

sminicooper said:
Anyone with any kind of old-fashioned morality would have resigned :rolleyes: (or not done the deed in the first place I suppose)

Ironical? - convicted in the same room where Marie Antoinette was sentenced to death by guillotine.
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There's supposed to be a meeting tonight of the IMF board to discuss the Lagarde verdict and possibly her future in the job.

I wouldn't expect them to be decisive either :)
 
counter_violent said:
Just putting a call out for Atilla. We could do with his input on this dodgy accountant situation.

:)
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Let's sort out our thieving politicians and their lapse of judgements first before we look at our neighbours.

I would like to pay my son £50,000 for doing his essay and calling it research too, if I could?

How about we cut spending on armoured rovers to protect our troops and build duck ponds instead?

Mrs Thatcher started all this you know to avoid the media highlighting inflation busting salary increases by putting everything on expense.


Wakey wakey ave some koffeee!!! (y)
 
How many UK politicians lost their jobs or went to prison.

Not saying it's right or Lagarde shouldn't lose her job. They should lose job and payback monies and he punished.

However one shouldn't knock the Europeans as if we are so much better.
 
The French, especially the press have long covered for their top wrong doers. Take Mitterand and his mistresses and alleged collaboration in WW2. That's why they think they will go unpunished even when caught out.
 
Atilla said:
How many UK politicians lost their jobs or went to prison.

Not saying it's right or Lagarde shouldn't lose her job. They should lose job and payback monies and he punished.

However one shouldn't knock the Europeans as if we are so much better.
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5 went to prison, countless lost their jobs, and hundreds were forced to repay and it's still on going and will continue to be forever in the public eye. Quite rightly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...MPs-expenses-A-scandal-that-will-not-die.html

Lagarde gets let off with a slapped wrist. Pathetic !

It all comes under the header "misuse of public funds"
 
I am getting more concerned for the future and Brexit does not enter into my fresh thoughts.. The UK and Spain will carry on, for better or for worse, regardless, as far as trade is concerned. However, Putin wants Europe to break up and his reasons are not making good news for me.

However, the events in Turkey and Trump's apparent feelings towards Putin's Russia are not a good omen for Europe. Once again, the Ukraine is going to get some heat. If you optimistic Brexit guys can make me feel better about Russia, I'd like that!
 
Splitlink said:
I am getting more concerned for the future and Brexit does not enter into my fresh thoughts.. The UK and Spain will carry on, for better or for worse, regardless, as far as trade is concerned. However, Putin wants Europe to break up and his reasons are not making good news for me.

However, the events in Turkey and Trump's apparent feelings towards Putin's Russia are not a good omen for Europe. Once again, the Ukraine is going to get some heat. If you optimistic Brexit guys can make me feel better about Russia, I'd like that!
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All the more reason why the Europeans should support NATO and not mess around with the idea of a European army – anybody who knows anything about the way in which some of the European army contingents of NATO conduct themselves would agree. Putin looks to BREXIT as a soft way of destabilising Europe – the best antidote to that has always been NATO; it's just a shame that most of the Europeans have always left Uncle Sam and the Brits to do the heavy lifting.
 
sminicooper said:
All the more reason why the Europeans should support NATO and not mess around with the idea of a European army – anybody who knows anything about the way in which some of the European army contingents of NATO conduct themselves would agree. Putin looks to BREXIT as a soft way of destabilising Europe – the best antidote to that has always been NATO; it's just a shame that most of the Europeans have always left Uncle Sam and the Brits to do the heavy lifting.
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I think you'll find UK and France along with US prevented rebuilding German military. That was the idea behind the EU so now arguing otherwise is setting unattainable dual standards.

Russia not about to attack anyone. On the contrary it is a stabilising force in the ME. It is more likely to become a EU trading partner than prospect of war raising its head. Yanks can ramp it up as much as they like but they should beware of over extending their foreign policy which has been aggressive and pretty shiite and self defeating imho.


Need to wise up here as the military need a war to fight to justify expenditure. Commies, guerrillas, terrorists and now Russia what ever will they think of next?
 
Ok! I agree with you, if it solves the problem! However, it looks to me as if the Muslims are going to do their best to **** off Russia by killing Russian citizens on European soil. A good, old, stirring up process.

You could say that that is a NATO thing, too, but the point is that it is happening and the time for talking is fading away, fast. all the West is doing is to try to figure out how to make more money when it won't nmatter a fig if we all end up like Aleppo.
 
Atilla said:
I think you'll find UK and France along with US prevented rebuilding German military. That was the idea behind the EU so now arguing otherwise is setting unattainable dual standards.

Russia not about to attack anyone.
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Famous last words!
 
It appears that one's views on this have largely to do with age. Memory is a bitch.

I'm with Splitlink.
 
Atilla said:
I think you'll find UK and France along with US prevented rebuilding German military. That was the idea behind the EU so now arguing otherwise is setting unattainable dual standards.
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Certainly there were restraints on Germany and it wasn't allowed to become a military nuclear power. But the rest of Europe (and Germany) were encouraged to participate in NATO and in my opinion that served us well. (In fact, Germany made some very fine and effective military contribution to NATO during latter stages of the Cold War). Although the original idea of the EU was political union, if its inception as an economic organisation (coal and steel community) had stayed that way and not pursued the political project, things might have been very different now – with the UK playing its full part. For me, the EEC could have had a fantastic potential if it had not been for the political meddlings. It's only the politics that have made me a Brexiteer.


Atilla said:
Russia not about to attack anyone. On the contrary it is a stabilising force in the ME. It is more likely to become a EU trading partner than prospect of war raising its head. Yanks can ramp it up as much as they like but they should beware of over extending their foreign policy which has been aggressive and pretty shiite and self defeating imho.
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Russia not about to attack – agree with that. All they have is a collection of Cold War leftover hardware but it still puts the $hits up many people! NATO is still the best antidote – Putin is a man that understands strength. Stabilising force in the Middle East? – Effectively now, yes. But what were they doing for the last 5 years or so? US foreign policy? – They've long needed to learn where to, and where not to, poke their noses in. But we (UK) suffer from that also. Only the Europeans just sit there like puddings and do nothing.

Atilla said:
Need to wise up here as the military need a war to fight to justify expenditure. Commies, guerrillas, terrorists and now Russia what ever will they think of next?
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That's always been a problem with the military – the Gulf War wars were an excellent testing ground to see if their plans and hardware were up to the job. All the more reason why we need politicians with brain cells and vision.
 
Splitlink said:
Ok! I agree with you, if it solves the problem! However, it looks to me as if the Muslims are going to do their best to **** off Russia by killing Russian citizens on European soil. A good, old, stirring up process.

You could say that that is a NATO thing, too, but the point is that it is happening and the time for talking is fading away, fast. all the West is doing is to try to figure out how to make more money when it won't nmatter a fig if we all end up like Aleppo.
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And how did we find ourselves in this situation !

Because Europe lost control of it's borders, that's how.

No matter how people like to dress things up, the simple fact is that people are tribal and will always revert back to type.
 
All local people are tribal. How small do you want to get them? The UK was tribal before William ! invaded it. I believe trhat passports are, relatively, new-fangled.

Problems are caused by individuals and we have two on the world stage, right now. Putin and Trump. At present, I can't think of anyone in Europe, but these two represent very powerful nations. I'm wondering how long it will be before they start carving us up between them?
 
Splitlink said:
All local people are tribal. How small do you want to get them? The UK was tribal before William ! invaded it. I believe trhat passports are, relatively, new-fangled.

Problems are caused by individuals and we have two on the world stage, right now. Putin and Trump. At present, I can't think of anyone in Europe, but these two represent very powerful nations. I'm wondering how long it will be before they start carving us up between them?
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I suggest you have more than two. The resurgence of the far right may not be a wave, but it is definitely a groundswell. Those who have been through this before are more likely to recognize it than those who haven't.

As to tribalism, you may remember that "the West" used to be tribal, and the size of that tribe and its common purpose changed the course of history. Now is not the time to become mired in petty squabbles.
 
counter_violent said:
And how did we find ourselves in this situation !

Because Europe lost control of it's borders, that's how.

No matter how people like to dress things up, the simple fact is that people are tribal and will always revert back to type.
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Spoilsport ! And there I was thinking civilisation would eventually climb up through the snakes and ladders of conflict and peace :cry:
 
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