ETX capital slippage..

[grimweasel]

I noticed my account depleting of late after years of having very few issues with ETX; I keep an excel log of all trades and noticed as I was not 'losing' enough I started to get slippage on many trades. Last night I left an OTO to short at 1298 and was filled at 1293 but the orignial stop loss of 100 pips was widened to the 100 distance from 1298 - so a 50% increase over what I was looking for. The bloke I spoke to at ETX gave me some excuse about 'extreme' volatility in the Asian session - but I don't see a $10 move down in Gold over 3 mins as 'extreme'. Utter rubbish. They are all the same. Bucket shops. If the FCA here in the UK covered SB firms I would send them a letter.

The bloke also reckoned that they 'hedge out' all trades and my fill was because they need to give priority to the hedge over client orders??!! So a 50% increase in their profits at my expense. Talk about rigging and ripping off clients?!

 

[Vasco da Banana]

The bloke also reckoned that they 'hedge out' all trades and my fill was because they need to give priority to the hedge over client orders??!! So a 50% increase in their profits at my expense. Talk about rigging and ripping off clients?!

So they hedge your trade before you make it? Clever stuff.

 

[Pjort]

To this day I havent yet got any reply from etx helpdesk about the inactive "sell button"
Funny enough it seem a bit embarrising for me now - maybee i am a stupid beginner who dont understand the rules - spoken/unspoken rules off online trading.

Silence from the people your are complaining about is always a bit embarrising, especially for me; the person who is complaining.

Anyway, another thing i noticed is the adverts who talk about a very narrow spread. It seems to me that the spread at ETX varies alot. Is that normal?

And one more time again, I apollogize any stupid thoughts and wrong acusations....

Best

 

[iandh2010]

Anyway, another thing i noticed is the adverts who talk about a very narrow spread. It seem to me that the spread at ETX varies alot. Is that normal?

And one more time again, I apollogize any stupid thoughts and wrong acusations....

Best

Hi Pjort,
Welcome to the forum.
I am a fairly new member myself but have been spread betting since 2009. I had a lay off of a couple of years because I could not devote sufficient time to it but have recently come back to it.

I found this t2W forum when I was looking for a new SB company to replace IG Index as they kept widening their spreads and stopping me out or triggering a buy order prematurely. In other words their spreads kept changing.

The last straw was when I set up a conditional buy order with IG Index on a particular stock as they were offering half the spread that my alternative Finspreads was offering when I placed the conditional order on the night before while the markets were closed. By the time they had fulfilled the order the IG Index spread was actually wider than I could have got with Finspreads whose spread had not changed!!!!!!!!!!!! When I questioned IG Index they said that they wrap their spread around the underlying market spread so as the market is very volatile in the fist 10 mins of trading the spreads widened. Strange that Finspreads was still offering the same spread as the night before!!!!!!! The problem is that it is very difficult to prove anything

Needless to say I have now closed my IG Index account.

I was considering the ETX trading platform myself but was concerned about their privacy policy so did not sign up in the end. However, the guys on here pointed out that I did have an option to prevent them using my contact details for publicity mailings, I just couldn't find it at the time.

I have eventually ended up with City Index which is the sister company to Finspreads. I have downloaded their Advantage Trader on my local PC. This has some quite nice features and appears to be much better if working on a slow internet link, for example when on a laptop using a mobile internet link. The Advantage Trader appears to be much more responsive especially since Finspreads has "upgraded" its web based platform as this is totally unusable on slower links.

Obviously I don't use slower mobile links normally but when on holiday etc. it sometimes become a necessity.

Anyway, after all my research I have found that virtually all the SBs wrap their spreads around the underlying market spreads by adding a margin to each side so they all have spreads that vary to some degree, its just that some appear to vary when there has been no variation in the underlying market. Their are companies that offer Direct Market Access so they don't add anything to the spread but DO charge commissions on buy/sell orders that can far outweigh the spreads for people like me who are dealing small amounts on a wide portfolio.

As many people on this forum have told me, there is not much to choose between the SB companies.

Strange that you could not sell short on ETX, please do let us know what answer you eventually get back. Obviously they should have got back to you straight away with something as serious as not being able to sell short. Therefore it would appear that ETX might not be a good SB for anyone that is going to need a considerable amount of help to get up and running..................

Regards
Ian

 

[Pjort]

Hi Pjort,
Welcome to the forum.
I am a fairly new member myself but have been spread betting since 2009. I had a lay off of a couple of years because I could not devote sufficient time to it but have recently come back to it.

I found this t2W forum when I was looking for a new SB company to replace IG Index as they kept widening their spreads and stopping me out or triggering a buy order prematurely. In other words their spreads kept changing.

The last straw was when I set up a conditional buy order with IG Index on a particular stock as they were offering half the spread that my alternative Finspreads was offering when I placed the conditional order on the night before while the markets were closed. By the time they had fulfilled the order the IG Index spread was actually wider than I could have got with Finspreads whose spread had not changed!!!!!!!!!!!! When I questioned IG Index they said that they wrap their spread around the underlying market spread so as the market is very volatile in the fist 10 mins of trading the spreads widened. Strange that Finspreads was still offering the same spread as the night before!!!!!!! The problem is that it is very difficult to prove anything

Needless to say I have now closed my IG Index account.

I was considering the ETX trading platform myself but was concerned about their privacy policy so did not sign up in the end. However, the guys on here pointed out that I did have an option to prevent them using my contact details for publicity mailings, I just couldn't find it at the time.

I have eventually ended up with City Index which is the sister company to Finspreads. I have downloaded their Advantage Trader on my local PC. This has some quite nice features and appears to be much better if working on a slow internet link, for example when on a laptop using a mobile internet link. The Advantage Trader appears to be much more responsive especially since Finspreads has "upgraded" its web based platform as this is totally unusable on slower links.

Obviously I don't use slower mobile links normally but when on holiday etc. it sometimes become a necessity.

Anyway, after all my research I have found that virtually all the SBs wrap their spreads around the underlying market spreads by adding a margin to each side so they all have spreads that vary to some degree, its just that some appear to vary when there has been no variation in the underlying market. Their are companies that offer Direct Market Access so they don't add anything to the spread but DO charge commissions on buy/sell orders that can far outweigh the spreads for people like me who are dealing small amounts on a wide portfolio.

As many people on this forum have told me, there is not much to choose between the SB companies.

Strange that you could not sell short on ETX, please do let us know what answer you eventually get back. Obviously they should have got back to you straight away with something as serious as not being able to sell short. Therefore it would appear that ETX might not be a good SB for anyone that is going to need a considerable amount of help to get up and running..................

Regards
Ian

Hello Ian,

thanks for your thorough reply with many valuable point about SB and about your personal experience with ETX and other companys.

I can see my self in a lot off the things you are telling about, regarding your live trading experience. My personal goal is to develop into being a fulltime day trader. To be honest properly a scalper. After 3 month of studying and testing a small account with only 1500 euro in, I am now trading a micro account with a balance of 400 euros. The first 1500 euro was a roller coaster - up and down about 30-40 % in both directions, finally when it was break-even at 1500 euros I pulled the money back and spend the lot on my summer holiday. After 3 month of only studying I am back again and I managed in a week to be up carefully 25 % on my 400 euro micro account, so today it is balancing around 500 euro. I am quite proud of that result because I am trading carefully and only do smalls trade with 80 % percent win and every time I get about 0,5 % profit, I close the trade.
So in average, I gain about 1-2 percent every trading day with with only 2 hours behind the screen.

So to be honest, I have a humble dream doing the same with a account with starting capital on about 15.000 euro. Gain 2 %, 3 days pr. week and I will be quite successful in a year of time. Anyway I know this is totally forbidden talk and maybe i make the gods angry by having such greedy thoughts.

For the moment i just do some primitive scalping by hitting the sell or buy button at some nice support and resistance levels. It seems to work and off course I am looking for other maybe more sophisticated tools like a MT4 platform with some Renko bar system attached. Or go in the more simple direction and test the fabulous TRO's rumbled systems like the RAT or C4 or "Never Loose Again" LOL...

Ian, maybe we could support each other with some hints about moving on from the SB companies and get a "real" trading setup against a "real broker" All the experienced guys talk all the time about Brokers and MT4 and so on etc.etc.

For the sake of fun i attached two pictures showing what is going when trading at ETX:
This pictures show how i was denied going short, instead of the sell and buy button there came a text telling me "This market isn't supposed to do short selling in, due its illegal" WOUW hillarius... I am not allowed being a successful trader - talk about bucketeers....

image upload

Next picture shows that I only can do a 5 lot trading wich will expose me to heavy to the market regarding my account size. I will now be forced to do to risk full trades. If I try to only trade 2 lot theres a alert preventing me from that. Now by default it is set on a minimum 5 lot.
I dont find my self helped in being a successful trader by this system.

imgurl

Well, finally - maybe I am a stupid beginner without prober knowledge about this matter, sorry for any inconviense.

Best from Pjort

 

[iandh2010]

Hello Ian,

thanks for your thorough reply with many valuable point about SB and about your personal experience with ETX and other companys......

My personal goal is to develop into being a fulltime day trader. To be honest properly a scalper. After 3 month of studying and testing a small account with only 1500 euro in, I am now trading a micro account with a balance of 400 euros. The first 1500 euro was a roller coaster - up and down about 30-40 % in both directions, finally when it was break-even at 1500 euros I pulled the money back and spend the lot on my summer holiday. After 3 month of only studying I am back again and I managed in a week to be up carefully 25 % on my 400 euro micro account, so today it is balancing around 500 euro. I am quite proud of that result because I am trading carefully and only do smalls trade with 80 % percent win and every time I get about 0,5 % profit, I close the trade.
So in average, I gain about 1-2 percent every trading day with with only 2 hours behind the screen.

So to be honest, I have a humble dream doing the same with a account with starting capital on about 15.000 euro. Gain 2 %, 3 days pr. week and I will be quite successful in a year of time. Anyway I know this is totally forbidden talk and maybe i make the gods angry by having such greedy thoughts.



Best from Pjort

Hi Pjort,
I too would like to eventually earn a reasonable living by day trading. I am not too sure how scalping works. I think that we may be able to help each other through this but we had probably better take it off this topic and maybe off the forum completely.

Can anyone please advise whether there is a facility on t2W that Pjort and myself should use to progress our strategy talks? Should we just start a new topic or take it totally offline personal mailings and then coming back to t2W afterwards.

I personally think that starting a new topic would be best as that would allow other t2W users to chip in with their views and advice, provided that they respect the fact that we are relatively newbies to SB and are trading smaller amounts until we get our strategies fine tuned!

Regards
Ian

 

[timsk]

Can anyone please advise whether there is a facility on t2W that Pjort and myself should use to progress our strategy talks? Should we just start a new topic or take it totally offline personal mailings and then coming back to t2W afterwards.

Hi Ian,
Allow me to help with that . . .

This particular thread is devoted to the topic of ETX Capital - specifically the issue of slippage. Discussions about other topics are best conducted in other threads on other forums. If you and Pjort wish to discuss your respective methodologies, then I recommend you each start a trading journal. Although you may have similar ideas, keeping the journals separate will make it easier for subscribers to your respective threads to follow. You can learn more about how to create a journal and the advantages of doing so here: Essentials Of 'Trading Journals'

The benefit of progressing your discussion on T2W is that other members will read your posts and learn from your experiences - hopefully! - and you'll receive ideas and insights from members who are more experienced than you - hopefully! So, a win : win situation all around.

Tim.

 

[iandh2010]

Hi Ian,
Allow me to help with that . . .


The benefit of progressing your discussion on T2W is that other members will read your posts and learn from your experiences - hopefully! - and you'll receive ideas and insights from members who are more experienced than you - hopefully! So, a win : win situation all around.

Tim.

Thanks Tim,
Much appreciated.
Ian

 

[Pjort]

Hi Pjort,
I too would like to eventually earn a reasonable living by day trading. I am not too sure how scalping works. I think that we may be able to help each other through this but we had probably better take it off this topic and maybe off the forum completely.

Can anyone please advise whether there is a facility on t2W that Pjort and myself should use to progress our strategy talks? Should we just start a new topic or take it totally offline personal mailings and then coming back to t2W afterwards.

I personally think that starting a new topic would be best as that would allow other t2W users to chip in with their views and advice, provided that they respect the fact that we are relatively newbies to SB and are trading smaller amounts until we get our strategies fine tuned!

Regards
Ian

Hi Ian and others,

I will send you a PM so we can discuss the possibilities about a run a beginners thread - with a working title - "From Spread betting to real trading" or "what coffee to drink while waiting for the right setup".

About this threads subject of discussion- I have thought about and googled the word slippage and thought about it. Of course the matter slippage is probably not better or worse at ETX than at so many other trading companies.

Though my own experience with ETX's peculiar shifting trading setup make me wonder what is this all about. Maybee not "slippage" but i guess its the same game - make me loose or not win. Anyway I will trade happy on... I believe, from reading so many post about SB company like ETX that they are only stepstones for the progressing trader. (I hope i am right here)

Truth is, any allegations about fraud or hidden misleading agenda would only be possible to come up with, by making a very thorough systematically investigation. Which would need weeks of several persons manpower to do. I just provide examples from my own real time experience, which is free for all to interpretate their own way.

Best from Pjort

 

[iandh2010]

Hi Ian and others,

I will send you a PM so we can discuss the possibilities about a run a beginners thread - with a working title - "From Spread betting to real trading" or "what coffee to drink while waiting for the right setup".

About this threads subject of discussion- I have thought about and googled the word slippage and thought about it. Of course the matter slippage is probably not better or worse at ETX than at so many other trading companies.

Though my own experience with ETX's peculiar shifting trading setup make me wonder what is this all about. Maybee not "slippage" but i guess its the same game - make me loose or not win. Anyway I will trade happy on... I believe, from reading so many post about SB company like ETX that they are only stepstones for the progressing trader. (I hope i am right here)

Truth is, any allegations about fraud or hidden misleading agenda would only be possible to come up with, by making a very thorough systematically investigation. Which would need weeks of several persons manpower to do. I just provide examples from my own real time experience, which is free for all to interpretate their own way.

Best from Pjort

Hi Pjort,
I think that timsk makes a very good case for us to consider keeping trading journals. I have been struggling for several weeks now just trying to work out the most efficient way of taking records from my SB screens rather than laboriously making many notes and/or filling in spreadsheets from reading on my screens. So I shall take a look at the suggestions about trading journals and wait for your PM.

Regards
Ian

 

[Pjort]

Hello again,

Well, I have the other day spoken with the ETX capital representative in Denmark and I was quite pleased about his explanation of why I got these problems, as mentioned in my previous posts.

1. Regarding the 1 lot size I suddenly wasn't able to trade, now only 5 lot size. This was due to a change of minimum lot size which ETX hasnt managed to tell their customers in Denmark(at least not me) The one Danish krone is equal to approximately 0,2 dollar and therefore the ETX rule about minimum bid at least 1 dollar or one euro or one pound, has suddenly been implemented. And when i wanted to trade 1 kr lot size it wasn't possible any more, yesterday. Well bad communication from ETX side(or no communication)

About "the no shorting aloud" This was due a bad translation at the etx platform signs, which probably should have been saying something about "market is dropping so fast that we cant fill your order..."

Anyway the Danish ETX represent was very friendly and helped me into realising some quite important fact about trading, so I am very pleased.

Best from Me....

 

[macbund]

Just to report back on the slippage issues being so great with ETX capital. I have withdrawn all my funds from my ETX account and closed my account- due to the absurd sliipage I was suffering, even in low volume low volatile markets.

I have transferred my business to another firm and am consequently enjoying much less slippage and as a result far better profits.

I would personally not reccommend ETX Capital when there are many other providers out there.

Mac

 

[iandh2010]

ETX Capital Slippage

Just to report back on the slippage issues being so great with ETX capital. I have withdrawn all my funds from my ETX account and closed my account- due to the absurd sliipage I was suffering, even in low volume low volatile markets.

I have transferred my business to another firm and am consequently enjoying much less slippage and as a result far better profits.

I would personally not reccommend ETX Capital when there are many other providers out there.

Mac

OK so who do you now use that is much better?
Ian

 

[macbund]

ETX CAPITAL Feedback..

Just to report back on the slippage issues being so great with ETX capital. I have withdrawn all my funds from my ETX account and closed my account- due to the absurd sliipage I was suffering, even in low volume low volatile markets.

I have transferred my business to another firm and am consequently enjoying much less slippage and as a result far better profits.

I would personally not reccommend ETX Capital when there are many other providers out there.

Mac

 

[gle101]

Just to report back on the slippage issues being so great with ETX capital. I have withdrawn all my funds from my ETX account and closed my account- due to the absurd sliipage I was suffering, even in low volume low volatile markets.

I have transferred my business to another firm and am consequently enjoying much less slippage and as a result far better profits.

I would personally not reccommend ETX Capital when there are many other providers out there.

Mac

Yes that is a privilege we as clients enjoy, if they don't behave we just move on, as there are quite many that might provide a better service.

 

[brasil2000]

Yes that is a privilege we as clients enjoy, if they don't behave we just move on, as there are quite many that might provide a better service.

Gle I'm surprise you use them with terms and conditions like these.


11.1 Our Scalping policy

(a) the Trade is opened and closed within Two
(2) minutes (i.e. the Order for the closing
Trade follows the Order for the open
Trade in two (2) minutes or less);

(b) an opposing Trade is placed within two (2)
minutes of each another Trade being
opened thus creating a fully or partially
hedged position (also known as a “locked
position”); or

(b) avoid any Trade (i.e., treat the Trade as if
the Trade had never taken place) which
was part of any Scalping activity;
(c) close any Trade on the basis of our then
current prices which was part of any
Scalping activity ; or
(d) amend any Trade, so that it is as it would
have been if the Order was executed in the
absence of Scalping.

11.4 We can exercise the above rights even if you
have entered into (or refrained from entering
into) arrangements with third parties relating to
the relevant Trade and even if you may suffer a
trading loss as a result.

11.5 We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to
change your underlying liquidity feed to another
provider in order to protect against abuse
(including Scalping). Such a change may result in
variable spreads being applied to markets you
trade. If the liquidity feed is changed we shall
have no requirement to notify you or give you
prior warning of the change. We shall not be
obligated to change the liquidity feed and may
take any other action permitted by standard
customer Terms and Conditions.

 

[gle101]

Gle I'm surprise you use them with terms and conditions like these.


11.1 Our Scalping policy

(a) the Trade is opened and closed within Two
(2) minutes (i.e. the Order for the closing
Trade follows the Order for the open
Trade in two (2) minutes or less);

(b) an opposing Trade is placed within two (2)
minutes of each another Trade being
opened thus creating a fully or partially
hedged position (also known as a “locked
position”); or

(b) avoid any Trade (i.e., treat the Trade as if
the Trade had never taken place) which
was part of any Scalping activity;
(c) close any Trade on the basis of our then
current prices which was part of any
Scalping activity ; or
(d) amend any Trade, so that it is as it would
have been if the Order was executed in the
absence of Scalping.

11.4 We can exercise the above rights even if you
have entered into (or refrained from entering
into) arrangements with third parties relating to
the relevant Trade and even if you may suffer a
trading loss as a result.

11.5 We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to
change your underlying liquidity feed to another
provider in order to protect against abuse
(including Scalping). Such a change may result in
variable spreads being applied to markets you
trade. If the liquidity feed is changed we shall
have no requirement to notify you or give you
prior warning of the change. We shall not be
obligated to change the liquidity feed and may
take any other action permitted by standard
customer Terms and Conditions.

Yes I know about this and have earlier pointed out the absurdity in these terms and conditions. Still I will stick with them for a while, if they don't like my trading style they have to tell me so, and I will be moving on. If they don't tell me and change the liquidity feed, I will probably notice anyway and the outcome will be the same on my part. They talk a lot about MiFID appliance, but ETX with this kind of terms don't seem to know the first thing about it.

 

[highbury fx]

Yes I know about this and have earlier pointed out the absurdity in these terms and conditions. Still I will stick with them for a while, if they don't like my trading style they have to tell me so, and I will be moving on. If they don't tell me and change the liquidity feed, I will probably notice anyway and the outcome will be the same on my part. They talk a lot about MiFID appliance, but ETX with this kind of terms don't seem to know the first thing about it.

When Spreadbet and CFD firms talk about changing your liquidity stream it is to protect their liquidity providers. Now this isn't as awful as it sounds, it works in the clients favour.

Let me explain. If the s/b and cfd firm have a good relationship with a variety of banks and those banks have had years of working closely with the broker and understand their typical client flow they are more likely to put the broker on one of their tighter pricing streams and this is obviously better for the client as you will have access to tight prices. Let us assume the broker finds a client who is very very good at SGD/JPY for example and is making lots of money. If the client is not hedged then the liquidity stream doesn't really matter as the risk is not being passed on to the bank but if the client is A book the banks may decide it is flow they do not want. This happens far more regularly than you may expect. The broker needs to protect to a degree his liquidity providers as if the pass too many good A book clients risk over to the banks the bank is likely to protect itself in the only way it can and that is too widen prices. If the toxic flow still continues the bank may pull its feed altogether. this would impact on the thousands of other clients who are happily dealing away on the tight liquidity.
Rules like this aren't necessaitrly just to protect the PnL of the broker, they're also in place to protect the relationship the broker has with his banks. And that is very important and beneficial to all of the other clients.

 

[gle101]

When Spreadbet and CFD firms talk about changing your liquidity stream it is to protect their liquidity providers. Now this isn't as awful as it sounds, it works in the clients favour.

Let me explain. If the s/b and cfd firm have a good relationship with a variety of banks and those banks have had years of working closely with the broker and understand their typical client flow they are more likely to put the broker on one of their tighter pricing streams and this is obviously better for the client as you will have access to tight prices. Let us assume the broker finds a client who is very very good at SGD/JPY for example and is making lots of money. If the client is not hedged then the liquidity stream doesn't really matter as the risk is not being passed on to the bank but if the client is A book the banks may decide it is flow they do not want. This happens far more regularly than you may expect. The broker needs to protect to a degree his liquidity providers as if the pass too many good A book clients risk over to the banks the bank is likely to protect itself in the only way it can and that is too widen prices. If the toxic flow still continues the bank may pull its feed altogether. this would impact on the thousands of other clients who are happily dealing away on the tight liquidity.
Rules like this aren't necessaitrly just to protect the PnL of the broker, they're also in place to protect the relationship the broker has with his banks. And that is very important and beneficial to all of the other clients.

As long as they give the same price feed to all clients at the same time I don't see a problem, if not, the reason for the switch is quite clear.

 

[highbury fx]

As long as they give the same price feed to all clients at the same time I don't see a problem, if not, the reason for the switch is quite clear.

Brokers don't have to give the same price feed to all clients at the same time. Even under TCF different clients can be shown different prices. Don't assume this is to your cost or detriment. This industry is all about scale and if that means a broker needs to protect their liquidity providers from a single predatory trader in order to protect their mass of clients then they will. No one client is bigger than the model, as soon as they are, that brokerage firm is in the deep doo dah.