Encouragement for a new trader please..

[The Black Arrow]

As I am nearing the point of launching my career as a full time day trader, I have been hearing so much negativity about day trading that it makes me sick.
Everything I read on the internet, friends I talk to, etc all say "Bud you'll lose money". They all say , and I truly mean everything I read says, that I will lose my money. This is become very disheartening and I don't want to believe them but at the same time I don't want to have my head in the sand either. I understand all the SEC disclaimers and the no profitability claims etc etc

I think my goals are very reasonable:
Minimize risk with small position sizes and tight stops
Scale in to positions as they go in my favor
DO NOT over trade
Stay focused and disciplined on the momentum doubler plan and strategies
Strictly use the techniques of momentum breakout strategies I have studied over the past 2-1/2 years
Manage my P&L properly
Put full time and effort into identifying potentially good stocks to trade and managing them in intraday as well as swing type trades.
Equip myself with the proper tools to be successful (level 2 platform and IB broker to keep commissions small )

To ALL T2W members: I am not swaggering into this with a "part time mentality" thinking that I can be successful without a lot of hard work. I am fully committed to doing whatever it takes to make myself a successful trader as evidenced by my enrollment in numerouse training classes . I study DVD's/principles/chart patterns almost every night. That is why I have sought out the best in the industry - I want to be successful. This will be my full time job now and I will treat it with the same energy and discipline as I did to become successful in my professional career.

So my question is:
Since I am new to live trading, my financial goals, I think, are very reasonable: $80 - $100 per day . I am starting with a $40,000 - $50,000 capital account with 3x that available with margin account.

I know there will be losses but i understand about limiting these with small stops and small lot sizes. I know that nothing beats "live trading" experience but I feel that the lessons I've learned from experienced professionals should greatly shorten my learning curve.


So I guess I'm looking for a little encouragement . Is it "reasonable" based on how much i've studied and how dedicated I am to succeed , to acheive the target of $80 - $100 per day?

i am excited to be a new member to the T2W forum and look forward to all feedback - positive or negative.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

good luck

 

[forker]

So let's get this straight. You are new to trading and you are throwing 40k at it on a full-time basis...

Surely you have glanced at the statistics on successful vs unsuccessful traders. What makes you think you have what it takes... Nobody in this business hits the floor running. You have to survive demoralising and agonising failures before you learn what it takes to even be a trader let alone a successful one

 

[rc450]

So I guess I'm looking for a little encouragement . Is it "reasonable" based on how much i've studied and how dedicated I am to succeed , to acheive the target of $80 - $100 per day

no, it's not at all resonable to expect to make a cent at this stage.
if you're really giving it a go you need to cut all living costs down to a bear minimum and try your best to finish your first year at breakeven with your 50k still intact, realistically that would be a great start. good luck .........i guess

 

[kimo'sabby]

Black Arrow,

You may not lose money, but unless you are some kind of freak loner, retired, house husband or whatever, trading is quite stressful.

Mortgages, car payments, holidays, kids, food etc etc, these normal expenses don't seem to mix well with the markets....unless you are wongered up (millions) in the first place.

Good luck.

 

[The Black Arrow]

I have read the statistics and have done my research. And yes they really do give me great reason to be cautious. And I am being cautious. I have cut down expenses and positioned myself financially to set what I thought was a small "average" daily profit target. It sounds like I was wrong thnking that I could make <.01% return per day even if I plan on using tight stops, hold no overnight positions, and not be greedy. I really have no "pre-conceived" notions of what would be reasonable profits to make per day or to lose per day - that is why I posed the question. Thanks for your feedback - i like hearing the truth and being realistic.
If this really takes years to just "break even" even after doing all the proper training, paper trading for two years, utilizing proper risk manangment, and part time live trading then why would anyone do this?
Seriously?

 

[shadowninja]

So my question is:
Since I am new to live trading, my financial goals, I think, are very reasonable: $80 - $100 per day . I am starting with a $40,000 - $50,000 capital account with 3x that available with margin account.

Is it "reasonable" based on how much i've studied and how dedicated I am to succeed , to acheive the target of $80 - $100 per day?

I can't be bothered with the supportive **** - you're an adult and need to be tough-skinned because trading is not for those who hide behind their mother's skirts.

So in answer to your question, it is reasonable to expect to achieve this by 2014. Your primary target should be to break even by January 2012. With this in mind, demo trade for 2-3 months to ensure you know what's what, then trade another 6 months with micro lots. If you go in full size immediately, you will prove your family and friends 100% correct.

I've seen so many newbies in your position back in their old job having handed their broker and the market their hard earned savings.

I would wish you luck, but if you need luck to make profit, then you're in for a horrible surprise sooner or later. So worst of luck and may you make crazy profits in due course.

 

[shadowninja]

If this really takes years to just "break even" even after doing all the proper training, paper trading for two years, utilizing proper risk manangment, and part time live trading then why would anyone do this?
Seriously?

The blunt answer: if you need to ask, you shouldn't bother with trading.

Fact is, one day you might be able to scale up and earn a living being your own boss. Well, I say you're your own boss. The market is your boss and she can be a confusing bitch.

 

[shadowninja]

Additional comments below.

1) Minimize risk with small position sizes and tight stops
2) DO NOT over trade
3) Stay focused and disciplined
4) Strictly use the techniques
5) Manage my P&L properly
6) Put full time and effort
7) hard work
8) my enrollment in numerouse training classes
9) my full time job now

1) Tight stops are not necessarily the right choice. Massive stops are not either. Learning what the correct size is for each market you trade in is important. You need to get a feel for each market's characteristic.
2) 3) 4) 5) How do you intend to do this? It sounds great but it's abstract. What will stop "the devil taking thee"? How will you not chase losses? Imagine you've taken 3 losses and it's only just gone 1pm. What will you do? Start questioning your system? Take the afternoon off? Use tighter stops still? Widen stops? Double up? Half? Keep trading and not eat/sleep until you make the losses back? And how do you handle failure in general?
6) 7) 9) The rewards from trading are not proportional to time spent at your desk. Many things in trading are counter-intuitive. You could, however, learn a hell of a lot just watching the charts from 8am to 9pm every day for a few months.
8) Can you cancel them? Think about why I ask this.

 

[the hare]

If this really takes years to just "break even" even after doing all the proper training, paper trading for two years, utilizing proper risk manangment, and part time live trading then why would anyone do this?
Seriously?

If you seriously think you can go from zero to instant profitability you are about to learn a very hard lesson.

As to why anyone would do it, if the answer really isnt obvious at this stage then go and do something else that you have a passion for whilst you still have some savings and a life. If you trully are serious the only advice I'll give is to stop reading trading forums this very instant, they are cancer that will destroy you.

 

[Black Swan]

I can't be bothered with the supportive **** - you're an adult and need to be tough-skinned because trading is not for those who hide behind their mother's skirts.

I've seen so many newbies in your position back in their old job having handed their broker and the market their hard earned savings.

I would wish you luck, but if you need luck to make profit, then you're in for a horrible surprise sooner or later. So worst of luck and may you make crazy profits in due course.

Good points well made..and the "back in old job" aint as easy as it used to be..

 

[shadowninja]

the "back in old job" aint as easy as it used to be..

Yeah. I suppose I could get myself in a car "accident" and claim disability allowance. Then make sure I don't get videoed by council investigators walking to BetFred every lunchtime.

 

[Black Swan]

If you seriously think you can go from zero to instant profitability you are about to learn a very hard lesson.

As to why anyone would do it, if the answer really isnt obvious at this stage then go and do something else that you have a passion for whilst you still have some savings and a life. If you trully are serious the only advice I'll give is to stop reading trading forums this very instant, they are cancer that will destroy you.

stfu you and let him burn.. Seriously you know he has to experience the higher highs/lower lows of trading..you have to go there to come back..

Not sure sure re. the cancer of trading forums, imho (as we've discussed before ) they are essential reading..but not for the obvious reason..

 

[Mr. Charts]

If you feel the need to be encouraged and ask for such from strangers on a BB, maybe you're not in the right frame of mind at the moment to undetake full time trading.
You should not only have paper traded to test your methods thoroughly, but also to have traded real money in small size over a substantial period of time in all market types before you go full time.
Not to have done so is asking for trouble.
Had you done this and had an actual record to look back on and be confident in, you really wouldn't need to ask for encouragement.
You might well get there in the end, but not at the moment. You need the confidence born of actual trading.
I won't say best of luck as luck doesn't come into it long term, but best wishes for the future,
Richard

 

[Black Swan]

Yeah. I suppose I could get myself in a car "accident" and claim disability allowance. Then make sure I don't get videoed by council investigators walking to BetFred every lunchtime.

The image I had of you has just been splattered..

 

[Black Swan]

I'm guessing this isn't quite what the OP had in mind when asking for encouragement...

 

[Mr. Charts]

I'm guessing this isn't quite what the OP had in mind when asking for encouragement...

You need some toughness of mind for trading full time.
To show the opposite and come into this lion's den of a place is just plain asking for a roasting. Actually he's got off very lightly

 

[shadowninja]

Yep... Arabian's probably too sozzled to be able to type.

 

[shadowninja]

The image I had of you has just been splattered..

That's a point. Any ninja worth his salt wouldn't be spotted by anyone, council investigator or otherwise.

TBH I only mentioned the benefits scrounging degen gambler because it was mentioned on LBC radio when I was making a snack in the kitchen.

 

[TheBramble]

I’m with pretty much everyone who has attempted to set the OP straight and for all the same reasons.

He is saying all the right things, but for those of us that have done this for a while, we know full well walking the talk is a LOT harder than ever can be imagined. Plus there are same plain falsehoods. As SN commented, small stops small position size ain’t necessarily the way to go. I’d go a little further in that direction, but there’s too much else that needs addressing to waste anyone’s time on that one issue for now.

The biggest issue I have with is that of needing encouragement in the first place. Richard has touched on this, but for me, it’s the real nub of it. Most traders need to be encouraged NOT to trade. They can’t not trade – they don’t need any encouraging whatsoever. If you don’t have the passion, the belief and the will to keep on going when you’ve lost it all, again and again, you’ll join the losers sooner rather than later. If you need encouragement – you’re not going to get it. You’re on your own, no matter how supportive (or not) others around you may appear to be. You discover that quite quickly.

It is tough. Really tough. But for those who do crack it, there is no better way to make your hay, but that’s just my view. OP asks what’s the point if it really is that tough. Because there’s nothing else that comes close and you really have no choice. Even if you knew the crap it was going to cause, you’d still carry on.

I have a real thing with anyone who has absolute or relative profit targets. Pointless. You’ll get what you get – not what you want. Forget the targets. Actually, if you want one, try hanging onto at least 50% your capital for the first 12 months. That’s a GOOD target.

I’ve modified my view on the percentages of losing against winning traders. I reckon, on average, at any given time, around half are profitable and half are not. I’ve been asking the wrong question all these years. It is pointless to ask is it just 3% or 5% or traders that are successful. That statistic is quite meaningless.

The better question is: At any given time, of those traders that are currently successful and profitable, how many have been trading that way for 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 24 months…

The guys and gals that have been doing this stuff consistently get very lonely out there beyond a couple of years….