DOM/time and sales trading - does it work?

[Market_Outsider]

Hello everyone.

I am new to the forum and generally to the english-speaking trading community, so sorry for my english and stupid questions.

So, the first question is: does DOM/time and sales trading still work?
I mean, there are a lot of opinions that it is not, because of hft robots, fundamental market changes etc.

If you look at the pictures of prop firms, where groups of traders sitting in front of monitors with only DOMs on them, it is easy to believe in dom trading, but the truth is that most of that pictures were taken several yeares ago. Not so many prop trading firms still alive actually (may be i am mistaken). And a lot of those firms that still there, hires IT specialists/algorythmic traders.

It will be great to acquire comments from the prop traders on that topic ( of course comments from other traders will be appreciated too). How do you trade now? Is discretionary dom trading still actual? Is there dom/time and sales training course for the trainees in prop firms? How do you see the future of such style of trading?

And the main (final) question is: is it worth the time of learning dom/time and sales now? Because it is looks like a day-by-day routine for minimum half a year to me.

Thank you.

 

[numbertea]

I use the DOM in my algorithmic trading system. I had to learn how the DOM lends itself to a trading environment first, before I could program it in. To me I would never trade without it although many traders do fine trading without it. I consider learning about depth of market an extra plus to my trading system which previously just used price patterns. The learning of DOM as a trading tool is not obsolete in any respect in my opinion. It is hard to learn without diving right in and observing it on a platform. Reading about how to trade it is a good start but won't get you too far. Have fun most importantly!

Cheers

 

[wino59]

How do you trade now? Is discretionary dom trading still actual? Is there dom/time and sales training course for the trainees in prop firms? How do you see the future of such style of trading?

And the main (final) question is: is it worth the time of learning dom/time and sales now? Because it is looks like a day-by-day routine for minimum half a year to me.

Thank you.

I use the DOM only during the trading session. I check the chart as part of my morning prep, I only to take a look at the charts, to refresh my memory of the previous days high low, also get a general feel for the market, if we are coming in a resistance or support area, but I solely place trades based on the DOM.

As far as algo's, who cares, they haven't impacted my trading, these programs are trying to get the edge fast, so they are in and out of the market, but I really don't see them changing the game. I think they are more prevalent in the ES, which I think where a lot of the chop comes from, but that is purely speculation.

Is there a training course? Yes, PM me.

I can't answer whether or not it is worth your time to learn, but be prepared to spend 4 hours a day during the morning session, for at least a year. Yes is a day to day routine, my average time in a trade is 11 to 15 minutes., but I am watching for 2 to 4 hours to place 2 to 5 trades a day.

Good luck, PM me if have any questions.

 

[OrderFlowDashPro]

MarketOutsider, the DOM and time and sales are tools and are not trading strategies as such it is not really an appropriate question to ask whether they work. Much in the same way, that candlesticks, market profile, and other tools can't be said to work or not work because they don't define a strategy with buy and sell rules.

But, it is clear the intentions from your question, are the DOM and time and sales still useful tools?

First, I should make clear that I'm the developer/inventor of OrderFlowDashPro's AlphaReveal which is a powerful DOM and time/sales replacement.

Now, we need to address each of these individually. It is not possible for any human to read the actual volume information from a non enhanced time/sales. What tape readers who use the time/sales, the ones who really learn to use it of which I imagine there are only a few of us, what they really do is read the price action and from that infer the volume information. It takes a lot of concentration to do that but it can be done -- yet you'd be better off by using specialized software, like our own.

As for the DOM, as a long time time/sales reader, I was never able to read ANYTHING from the DOM before I developed specialized tools for visualizing it. So, without specialized tools you can forget the DOM -- it is not going to be relevant. However, with our software you may or may not find it relevant. There are some very short term patterns that setup such as limit order pulls and order book imbalances which does often give leading information.

I don't think one should attempt to stare at the DOM to learn to trade or the time/sales for 6 months. What we recommend is to integrate reading the tape and trading at the same time. I won't say you can't but you are much better off learning to read the tape while in the context of placing trades then just staring at it. I wrote a piece at our blog about this -- the reason is that without placing trades you don't have a context for what you are seeing. So, yes if you want to learn get on the simulator and start placing trades.

Finally, yes I believe that our tools are extremely useful and not just for scalping -- as many opportunities are day trades or semi day trades these days. I believe that our tools are most valuable when integrated into a solid trading framework and we have many traders who've stayed with us since launch.

Hello everyone.

I am new to the forum and generally to the english-speaking trading community, so sorry for my english and stupid questions.

So, the first question is: does DOM/time and sales trading still work?
I mean, there are a lot of opinions that it is not, because of hft robots, fundamental market changes etc.

If you look at the pictures of prop firms, where groups of traders sitting in front of monitors with only DOMs on them, it is easy to believe in dom trading, but the truth is that most of that pictures were taken several yeares ago. Not so many prop trading firms still alive actually (may be i am mistaken). And a lot of those firms that still there, hires IT specialists/algorythmic traders.

It will be great to acquire comments from the prop traders on that topic ( of course comments from other traders will be appreciated too). How do you trade now? Is discretionary dom trading still actual? Is there dom/time and sales training course for the trainees in prop firms? How do you see the future of such style of trading?

And the main (final) question is: is it worth the time of learning dom/time and sales now? Because it is looks like a day-by-day routine for minimum half a year to me.

Thank you.

 

[DionysusToast]

So, the first question is: does DOM/time and sales trading still work?
I mean, there are a lot of opinions that it is not, because of hft robots, fundamental market changes etc.

If you look at the pictures of prop firms, where groups of traders sitting in front of monitors with only DOMs on them, it is easy to believe in dom trading, but the truth is that most of that pictures were taken several yeares ago. Not so many prop trading firms still alive actually (may be i am mistaken). And a lot of those firms that still there, hires IT specialists/algorythmic traders.

Take look @ this - these vids are not from several years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuyBower/videos

This is the guy that teaches interns at Propex - a shop in Australia/Singapore.

HFTs play a different game entirely.

 

[DionysusToast]

BTW - as an aside - the last time I spoke to a senior guy in a prop firm about trading off the DOM was Wednesday this week.

Not propex or futex either.