Sorry your reference above is not clear. If your 'Q6' means question 6, then there is no question 6 on pages 35 -36 (at least of my manual). The FAQ's section is on pages 55 - 59, and it is questions 4 and 5 that dealt with risk associated with the stock dropping in price. There is nothing about the stock shooting up in price. The success of this method is presumed based on the stock moving in a range.
Cashmaster PIE
- Thread starter daveyboy22
- Start date
- Watchers 66
Sorry your reference above is not clear. If your 'Q6' means question 6, then there is no question 6 on pages 35 -36 (at least of my manual). The FAQ's section is on pages 55 - 59, and it is questions 4 and 5 that dealt with risk associated with the stock dropping in price. There is nothing about the stock shooting up in price. The success of this method is presumed based on the stock moving in a range.
scaldedcat
Junior member
- Messages
- 28
- Likes
- 0
@danjurma
You mentioned in an earlier post a book "covered calls". I am interested in reading anything I can about options and I found a book "Covered Calls and Leaps - A Wealth Option". I assume it's the same, but I was surprised to see the price tag on my trusty kindle was over $120. Certainly not much to pay if it does what it says in the intro. But the reviews, which were numerous, had an enormous amount of 1 star ratings. Apparently a great idea when things are going well, but many apparently lost their shirts when the market turned.
Many had also forked out thousands to attend seminar/s, and almost universally condemned the after sales service. Arrogant, rude and unhelpful were used consistently.
Just letting others know to be careful, I was ready to purchase the book, but kindle does save you sometimes with the reviews of those who had already tried and tested the system.`
You mentioned in an earlier post a book "covered calls". I am interested in reading anything I can about options and I found a book "Covered Calls and Leaps - A Wealth Option". I assume it's the same, but I was surprised to see the price tag on my trusty kindle was over $120. Certainly not much to pay if it does what it says in the intro. But the reviews, which were numerous, had an enormous amount of 1 star ratings. Apparently a great idea when things are going well, but many apparently lost their shirts when the market turned.
Many had also forked out thousands to attend seminar/s, and almost universally condemned the after sales service. Arrogant, rude and unhelpful were used consistently.
Just letting others know to be careful, I was ready to purchase the book, but kindle does save you sometimes with the reviews of those who had already tried and tested the system.`
Yes scaldedcat, that is the book, but please I am not suggesting you buy it (not for that amount anyway). A bit of googling should come up with a free copy
. Yes I did read the mixed reviews as well. I think in all honesty, no method is absolutely risk free. the reason I suggested the book is that it is similar to BOSE from a slightly different perspective, so you can nick some ideas from it, and yes I can understand why some people might lose quite a bit using the method as the risk/money management side of it appears quite involved and you need to quite understand it.
Last edited:
Must be different edition.
You are incorrect regarding the range. In this instance, the sold put option does not deteriorate and you will gain on the premium for that month. The bought longer term put option would be OTM but you only risk the premium at expiry some 18-36 months away, by which time your accumulated current month premiums would have made more than enough to cover the longer term bought put premium and x amount of profit. Do you understand? Bought puts = risk premium only. Sold puts = risk unlimited.
Porkpie, I do understand. Sold calls (when stock assigned to you) = unlimited risk when stock shoots up! Sold puts = potential unlimited risk when stock drops like a stone (and the profit on your LEAPS not enough to off-set the loss)! I think I am correct regarding the range, the method as per the manual suggest this - select only stocks that trade in a narrow range!
Yes, but long term your premium gains average out and consume any loss and you make profit. With excessive moves, you adjust your LEAP. Low volatile instruments are advised, not just to trade in a range but to lower potential of huge moves in one direction.
How PIE traders deal with the Brexit vote this year should be interesting! My guess would be, trade something else!
Last edited:
The point raised earlier about value for money is the relevant one IMO.
If you are ultra-conservative and aim for 1% a month
Starting capital = £26000
Monthly profit at 1% = £260
It is going to take close on a year to make back the £3k cost of the course.
If the price was more reasonable then maybe worth it.
Maybe there is a marketing element in that "If it is that expensive then it must be good"....
If you are ultra-conservative and aim for 1% a month
Starting capital = £26000
Monthly profit at 1% = £260
It is going to take close on a year to make back the £3k cost of the course.
If the price was more reasonable then maybe worth it.
Maybe there is a marketing element in that "If it is that expensive then it must be good"....
A long(er) term user of PIE
I went on the PIE course in Nov 2014. I knew nothing about trading. I learned a lot that day. Off I went and made an annualised profit of around 25% in my first few months which started when I was really comfortable (or so I thought!) about Feb 2015.
The Black Swan event in the middle of that year hit me like an express train and I lost somewhere in the region of £2.5k which took my bank down from around £19k to just over £16.5k. My problem was that I didn't have enough capital in my account to deal with the sudden FTSE drop in the way that the system advised. If I had added to my account at the time of the event, I would have overcome the problems and done rather well. I decided to stick with it on the grounds that maybe I had been too speculative. In other words, I reduced my expectations. Since then, my account has gone from the £16.5k up to its present position of £20.5k (about £1500 of that is unrealised at this moment). That includes a point late last year where I had to take evasive action to avoid another big hole in my profits. This time I had not been so speculative in the preceding months and the "swerve" required to avoid problems worked really well.
My conclusion at the moment is this.
I don't think that a risk-averse person like me should aim for 20 to 30% on this scheme although it is possible, especially if you do have back-up funds in case of emergencies. I do believe that it is possible to make somewhere between 10 and 20% without too big a risk. There is always going to be SOME risk but in a truly awful situation then all other investments are going to be hit badly as well.
Is it worth £3k? That's debatable. I would never have learned anything about this form of trading if I hadn't gone on the seminar. And, to be fair, Glenn has been very prompt in coming back to me with advice when I have asked for it. However, I do think they would actually sell more spaces at their events if they modified the invitation to reduce the price to around £2k and alter some of the claims to more realistic levels. Also, I think they could teach more about handling the "worst-case scenarios". Being in sales myself, I know that they wouldn't want to dilute the "waow" factor of their sales blurb but it just might be that being a bit more realistic would give some of their potential clients a bit more confidence.
I went on the PIE course in Nov 2014. I knew nothing about trading. I learned a lot that day. Off I went and made an annualised profit of around 25% in my first few months which started when I was really comfortable (or so I thought!) about Feb 2015.
The Black Swan event in the middle of that year hit me like an express train and I lost somewhere in the region of £2.5k which took my bank down from around £19k to just over £16.5k. My problem was that I didn't have enough capital in my account to deal with the sudden FTSE drop in the way that the system advised. If I had added to my account at the time of the event, I would have overcome the problems and done rather well. I decided to stick with it on the grounds that maybe I had been too speculative. In other words, I reduced my expectations. Since then, my account has gone from the £16.5k up to its present position of £20.5k (about £1500 of that is unrealised at this moment). That includes a point late last year where I had to take evasive action to avoid another big hole in my profits. This time I had not been so speculative in the preceding months and the "swerve" required to avoid problems worked really well.
My conclusion at the moment is this.
I don't think that a risk-averse person like me should aim for 20 to 30% on this scheme although it is possible, especially if you do have back-up funds in case of emergencies. I do believe that it is possible to make somewhere between 10 and 20% without too big a risk. There is always going to be SOME risk but in a truly awful situation then all other investments are going to be hit badly as well.
Is it worth £3k? That's debatable. I would never have learned anything about this form of trading if I hadn't gone on the seminar. And, to be fair, Glenn has been very prompt in coming back to me with advice when I have asked for it. However, I do think they would actually sell more spaces at their events if they modified the invitation to reduce the price to around £2k and alter some of the claims to more realistic levels. Also, I think they could teach more about handling the "worst-case scenarios". Being in sales myself, I know that they wouldn't want to dilute the "waow" factor of their sales blurb but it just might be that being a bit more realistic would give some of their potential clients a bit more confidence.
Whether it works or not I do not know as I do not know anything about the method - PIE. However, from what I can deduce from this thread, it does appear the argument is not about whether it works or not, but more whether it is worth 3K. The worth of something is relative really and depends on the individual. If you know nothing about trading and I sell you a method for 10k and at the end of the year you made 50k using the method, you will say it is worth it and sing its praises from the top of a roof.
However, the point is that somebody else could have given you that same method for free, or you could have discovered it free yourself by reading/studying/ research etc. Human nature, of course will not attach much importance to the method given out for free. "If it was that good, why is it free!". It is all to do with perception. The more expensive it is, the more likely it is the genuine article/holy grail etc. It has been said many times over, there is nothing in trading (financial markets) that has never been done before, and I personally will never pay for expensive courses/seminars etc. The one benefit I can see to the people who pay for these expensive courses is that at least the huge amount of money they have paid will make them more committed and focused on the method as they would at least want to recover their expenses and thus make them likely to 'succeed'.
However, the point is that somebody else could have given you that same method for free, or you could have discovered it free yourself by reading/studying/ research etc. Human nature, of course will not attach much importance to the method given out for free. "If it was that good, why is it free!". It is all to do with perception. The more expensive it is, the more likely it is the genuine article/holy grail etc. It has been said many times over, there is nothing in trading (financial markets) that has never been done before, and I personally will never pay for expensive courses/seminars etc. The one benefit I can see to the people who pay for these expensive courses is that at least the huge amount of money they have paid will make them more committed and focused on the method as they would at least want to recover their expenses and thus make them likely to 'succeed'.
Agreed, I am one of those people!
So far, the fee that I paid has made me more determined to make it work. And it has.....just about!
I think you are kidding yourself to justify the expense you made on taking the course. There is a wealth of resources for free on-line. When I bought PIE I looked at a few of these but decided PIE would be a short-cut to learning -I took the lazy way out and I thoroughly regret that decision, because PIE is the most BASIC 'strategy' and is certainly NOT new.
For all their beefed up claims they are clearly targeting those lazy and uneducated in options, 'investors'. Glynn and Paul saw a gap in the market for teaching a basic options strategy at a high price. They are merely marketeers, just like many thousands on the web, hoping to catch those people that cannot be bothered to investigate and educate themselves in options more thoroughly. Some of these marketeers are scammers with false claims, and others walk a very thin line.
scaldedcat
Junior member
- Messages
- 28
- Likes
- 0
Very interesting discussion, especially for a complete novice in any form of trading like myself.
jitsab gives an example of it taking 12 months to pay for the course if achieving 1% return per month. Personally, if that was guaranteed, I would sign up now. Because the course has now been fully paid, and you could assume that a 12% return would now be achievable on your funds for life. The return of course could be better or worse, but my point is, compared to what you could achieve from banks, this would look like a great deal to me.
And others make strong points regarding finding all relevant information on the net. That is well and good, but when you are inexperienced in trading, reading a few books and studying up on some websites does not make you a trader in my opinion.
And I don't think it is lazy to want someone to hold your hand, someone who is experienced in trading, and will be able to not only provide the "system" but to be available to guide you through it.
The reason I haven't purchased the system is that I am not sure that it is as simple to operate as the PIE inventors make out. I am not worried whether it is 10mins a month or 10hrs. I would be happy to invest as much time as required if the returns could be anywhere near what is advertised and my rapidly diminishing brain cells are up to the task of operating it.
It is good to hear from people who have actually purchased the system, but it also muddies the water somewhat for prospective purchasers. What does surprise me is that a number of people seem quite experienced in trading, and I wonder why they purchased the system in the first place. Surely a bit of research, on sites such as this, would have provided them with enough information to demonstrate that PIE would not be educating them with anything the didn't already know.
I have certainly been procrastinating for some time regarding the purchase of this system. Being from Australia, the cost is basically double when converted to AUD. But most would say, just buy it and see what happens. When living on a pension, every dollar counts so this is why I have waited so long to make a decision. I am leaning toward making the purchase or in a few years I won't have anything left to invest.
But I thank everyone who has posted whether they by pro or negative toward PIE. You can never have to much info when making a decision such as this.
jitsab gives an example of it taking 12 months to pay for the course if achieving 1% return per month. Personally, if that was guaranteed, I would sign up now. Because the course has now been fully paid, and you could assume that a 12% return would now be achievable on your funds for life. The return of course could be better or worse, but my point is, compared to what you could achieve from banks, this would look like a great deal to me.
And others make strong points regarding finding all relevant information on the net. That is well and good, but when you are inexperienced in trading, reading a few books and studying up on some websites does not make you a trader in my opinion.
And I don't think it is lazy to want someone to hold your hand, someone who is experienced in trading, and will be able to not only provide the "system" but to be available to guide you through it.
The reason I haven't purchased the system is that I am not sure that it is as simple to operate as the PIE inventors make out. I am not worried whether it is 10mins a month or 10hrs. I would be happy to invest as much time as required if the returns could be anywhere near what is advertised and my rapidly diminishing brain cells are up to the task of operating it.
It is good to hear from people who have actually purchased the system, but it also muddies the water somewhat for prospective purchasers. What does surprise me is that a number of people seem quite experienced in trading, and I wonder why they purchased the system in the first place. Surely a bit of research, on sites such as this, would have provided them with enough information to demonstrate that PIE would not be educating them with anything the didn't already know.
I have certainly been procrastinating for some time regarding the purchase of this system. Being from Australia, the cost is basically double when converted to AUD. But most would say, just buy it and see what happens. When living on a pension, every dollar counts so this is why I have waited so long to make a decision. I am leaning toward making the purchase or in a few years I won't have anything left to invest.
But I thank everyone who has posted whether they by pro or negative toward PIE. You can never have to much info when making a decision such as this.
scaldecat, my advise to you is contact people like Porkpie that actually bought the system to find out whether it works and how long, conservatively, it will take you to make your initial investment back. If you are then happy with what you hear, then go for it, else you will be there procrastinating forever and just keep on asking questions over and over. I think the point people like Porkpie is trying to make is that for what it is, it is not worth 3K. According to Porkpie, it is the most basic strategy that you could easily find/learn yourself for free if you are prepared to devote the time etc. However, there lies the issue. Are you prepared to spend unlimited time searching, learning, researching, testing etc. If you are not and would rather pay someone else good money to circumvent this, then it's your choice. Like I mentioned before, value is relative and means different thing to different people. The main question is does the system work! If PIE works and you are sure to at least make your initial investment back within a reasonable period, and most importantly you do not have any reservation paying somebody 3K for the most basic of strategy, go for it!
Last edited:
scaldedcat,I have no idea about your ability to learn new skills and take onboard new knowledge but although I joined this forum many years ago I did not have the time or the money to trade at that time .Recently I decided that I needed to do something with my savings that allowed an increase in capital for a limited risk.Options can give you that opportunity but you must know what you are doing.I knew about Pie 4 years ago but was sceptical and did not go ahead as I had other things to worry about.
Recently I decided to investigate having revised my knowledge of options which were too basic as I soon discovered.
I then searched and found three sited that gave excellent information on all aspects of trading options and took their tests to assure myself that I had grasped the concepts .You certainly need to know about credit and debit spreads and iron condors but personally I like to know as much as I possibly can and you can soon see that you can trade with a probability of 90% and better if you limit your profit potential and at the same time limit your downside.But isn't this what you want ?
You can then open up a demo account (yes I know it is not the same as trading with real money but you can see how things work) and try out the strategies you have learnt.
You really do not need to spend £3K.If you are determined to research the subject for yourself you will understand how to achieve the results they are advertising and you will have a greater depth of knowledge to work with.
Just my sixpenn'orth .
Recently I decided to investigate having revised my knowledge of options which were too basic as I soon discovered.
I then searched and found three sited that gave excellent information on all aspects of trading options and took their tests to assure myself that I had grasped the concepts .You certainly need to know about credit and debit spreads and iron condors but personally I like to know as much as I possibly can and you can soon see that you can trade with a probability of 90% and better if you limit your profit potential and at the same time limit your downside.But isn't this what you want ?
You can then open up a demo account (yes I know it is not the same as trading with real money but you can see how things work) and try out the strategies you have learnt.
You really do not need to spend £3K.If you are determined to research the subject for yourself you will understand how to achieve the results they are advertising and you will have a greater depth of knowledge to work with.
Just my sixpenn'orth .
Hi danjuma,
I have about 10 years experience trading spot forex using fundamentals and orderflow, and recently the S&P and ZB futures. I trade naked puts/calls for some swing strategies and use low key modified (directional/volatility bias) BOSE for family members accounts. Gamma scalping takes up too much time. The less I sit in front of the screens the better
I have long been on the fence with PIE, until I read this thread and hunted out information online about options trading. There is truly a wealth of information out there without the need to spend £3000. I have used a couple of sites to learn about options and purchased BOSE ebook. Once you understand the fundamentals of options trading you then need to look at strategies. I currently run a few different strategies accross a couple of demo accounts and I'm reasonably happy with how it's going. There are a few hints in this thread about how PIE works, I think I have a reasonable idea, but will never know as I haven't purchased it. But I'm very happy to have taught myself about options trading.
Alternatively you can pay the money and see if you think it is value for money.
Alternatively you can pay the money and see if you think it is value for money.
Thats Great Advice, I too have just started the hunt for Options info thats out there and am being pleasantly surprised at what I am finding. Yes I agree that what little titbits of info that has been mentioned here along with my research has given me a good idea as to what PIE is.
PIE has prompted me to search this out so thankyou PIE
PIE has prompted me to search this out so thankyou PIE
After much thought I have decided that even though I dont think PIE is worth the 3k pricetag it comes with, I think it could still contain some useful information, so I will follow the lead of Becks100 and ask if there is anyone out there who has given up on PIE and wants to sell their manual.
Please private msg me.....
Please private msg me.....
