Car Help...?

[shadowninja]

NO NO NO !!!

That thing is an absolute widowmaker.

Midengined, NO Electronic stability control, guy I knew died in one of those pieces of BS because the idot thought he had to track that on the Nürburgring even though he had zero more driving talent than 99% of the rest of us, yet still thought he now had a Ferrari so had to go make believe he was a Schumacher.

He was a Brit btw.

360? Really? Everyone gave them great reviews in its time.

Still, now you call it a widowmaker, I'm tempted to get one. (I prefer cars with no driving aids.)

 

[BSD]

Crikey seriously not mate, that is one of the worst handling cars out there at the limit, car was a serious and total joke at the limit.

Buddy of mine who died in that didn't have the reflexes of a Schumacher that you absolutely need at the limit to catch a 360 once it broke away and that was the end of him.

Car flipped, and caught fire straight away. Another thing Ferraris like doing apparently, self-igniting cause the fuel lines are placed stupidly.

Guy actually wanted me to come with him to the Nürbugring. I was like absolutely no way.

Didn't see the point or the attraction, and least of all with an amateur behind the wheel.

Jesus.

Sad thing is another buddy did go with him, and died too.

You want a safe midengined car get a Lambo Gallardo, that's safe at the limit.

But then you don't like safe cars so the Ferrari is the one for you.



But seriously, I know you like racing but don't know how good you are, that Ferrari can and will bite not only because its got the engine behind you, but also because it just wasn't sorted at all even halfway decently let alone outfitted with ESP, they were selling that on name alone.

Like old Porsche 911's before they got 4 wheel drive and decades of tinkering to make them as safe as they are today.

Ferrari just didn't invest in tinkering to get it as safe AND fast for those who like that like a Porsche or Lambo.

 

[Hollu$]

I have a question.
If say for example you are looking on Auto Trader and you see a car advertised at:
"£20 - Metallic Silver, 22,500 on the clock, excellent condition"

Obviously it is a mistake and it is not £20 - but do they have to sell it to you if you request to buy it?

 

[BSD]

Good question.

Major German retailer had Apple notebooks up for €390 or sthg much lower than usual anyway on its homepage which was a mistake that probably cost someone their job.

Retailer is refusing to sell them for that obviously.

Customers that ordered in droves at those prices are insisting on fullfillment of contract and are now taking them to court.

Lets see who wins.

That said I think in private car sales you do have to be pretty careful, lotsa outright crooks trying on silly games there I suppose.

 

[foredog]

I have a question.
If say for example you are looking on Auto Trader and you see a car advertised at:
"£20 - Metallic Silver, 22,500 on the clock, excellent condition"

Obviously it is a mistake and it is not £20 - but do they have to sell it to you if you request to buy it?

No, they just do that to get near the top of the searches.

 

[foredog]

You want a safe midengined car get a Lambo Gallardo, that's safe at the limit.

I think the Lambo has a habit of spontaneusly combusting as well! On Top gear the other week they had about 7 photos of them with engnes on fire, i'm sure there's stuff out there on it but i haven't googled it yet.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

All the sketchy characters by my way went through a gallardo phase last year. None of them burnt. They probably got loads of fany though.

 

[BSD]

Interesting that foredog, hadn't heard about that.

But handling wise they are as safe as it gets, you can even drive them on snow and ice without the thing breaking out uncontrollably, widows could drive them without ending up back end first in the bushes when trying to enter a roundabout.

But of course thats no excuse if they've got badly layed fuel lines too.

If you find sthg more on that would be interesting to hear about it.

What did Clarkson say, endemic problem, the self igniting ?

 

[BSD]

R8 is as safe as a Gallardo as well.

This price here shouldn't be too far away from a new S5:

G C Motors : AUDI R8 4.2 FSI QUATTRO R TRONIC/ INSTALMENTS FROM 899 PCM

White one for a bit more but practically zero mileage:

http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/1197174.htm

Really quite good your UK prices guys.

Now if only the steering wheel weren't on the wrong side haha.

 

[shadowninja]

But seriously, I know you like racing but don't know how good you are, that Ferrari can and will bite not only because its got the engine behind you, but also because it just wasn't sorted at all even halfway decently let alone outfitted with ESP, they were selling that on name alone.

Appreciate your reply. Damned scary. Sorry about your loss.

For the record, my driving experience includes hundreds of hours of track time (rain and sun condition) and the ownership of quite a few high powered RWD cars (with and without traction control). Never experienced what you described, though, either personally or been witness to such an event. Maybe the N'ring is a bit tougher - I hear it is very bumpy, so taking a corner too quickly and unsettling the car with a bump is a recipe for disaster.

 

[BSD]

Thanks mate, quite a shock you can imagine, both guys still had lots of good years ahead of them.

Was supposed to meet them later, but nobody showed up which just wasn't like them at all, mobiles weren't working, etc.

And when I finally found out, well hey, a death just doesn't get more pointless than that, that really had me shell shocked for quite some time.

Nürburgring is incredibly tough from what one hears. I don't race myself and never have but still keep an eye on what's going on, and pretty much all car companies in the world fine tune their new cars setups on the Nürburgring just because it is so demanding.

Some better, like Nissan with it's new GTR which is very safe and fast. Some worse, like Ferrari with the 360.

It's successor is better, but still not as safe as a Lambo or an R8, its 2 main mid-engined competitors. Heck, even a power and torque monster like the Bugatti Veyron is so safe a granny could drive that.

Even Formula 1 don't race the old course anymore because it was considered too dangerous, they got a new tamer one there.

Problem is danger atttracts people like free beer, and everybody can race their cars there on the old track for a fee, and don't have exact numbers right now, but my buddies deaths aren't the only ones there in a year by a far measure.

NurburgringWarning.co.uk

I'm sure you are good at what you do and have great fun doing that, but just drive carefully, nothing is worth ending up in a wheelchair or worse because one didn't accept ones limits that even a Schumacher has and respected.

My buddies left lots of pretty angry family behind, not just bewildered friends.

 

[BSD]

You know that 360 of his, drove that in London a few times, sometimes when it was wet. Now I really wasn't pulling any stunts whatsoever, but getting that into a busy roundabout with lots of traffic where you need to get a move on and in the wet without that twitchy mess of a car hanging its behind out and trying to spin was a real challenge. I don't go fast in other peoples cars but that Ferrari of his was simply a mess.

And then here in Germany maybe a year after that thing with my buddies, a guy was overtaking a truck in the wet on a country road in his Ferrari 360. Thing spun, crashed into a tree and basically broke in two halves separated on the road.

One guy died, the other survived miraculously.

And according to police reports there was absolutely no unsafe driving involved, just a normal overtaking manoever that in any decent car would have had no consequences.

Twitchy mess !
http://wikicars.org/en/Ferrari_360

 

[shadowninja]

You're right. The 'Ring is treacherous.

YouTube - Idiot crash his car 7seconds after entering the Nurburgring

 

[shadowninja]

You know that 360 of his, drove that in London a few times, sometimes when it was wet. Now I really wasn't pulling any stunts whatsoever, but getting that into a busy roundabout with lots of traffic where you need to get a move on and in the wet without that twitchy mess of a car hanging its behind out and trying to spin was a real challenge. I don't go fast in other peoples cars but that Ferrari of his was simply a mess.

Doesn't any different to some of the cars I've owned. You just learn to stay calm and control the vehicle safely.

 

[BSD]

Christ it's not really funny, but couldn't help it, almost fell off my chair laughing watching that video.



Re your second remark, I've driven a Gallardo of a buddy in the same circumstances, and that just stays put and tame and completely under control, no twitchiness whatsoever.

 

[shadowninja]

Laughing at other people's misfortune. Shame on you. I mighta laughed, too.

Yeah, the Gallardo would be. That 4WD system is good but there is a set of conditions where it would fail and you'd be too far (angle, road surface, speed combination) to rescue it yourself. What I like about cars without any of these gimmicks is that you know how far you can push it to avoid becoming a statistic. That's why so many Imprezas, Lancer Evos and Elises end up being written off; they are SO good round corners that even the incompetent can drive ridiculously quickly in perceived safety. Then suddenly conditions change (standing water, mud, unexpectedly sharp corner) and through a lack of experience, they **** themselves, stamp on the brakes and fill in that insurance claim form. Just like in trading, over-confidence comes before a wipe out.

 

[BSD]

Laughing at other people's misfortune. Shame on you. I mighta laughed, too.

Yeah, the Gallardo would be. That 4WD system is good but there is a set of conditions where it would fail and you'd be too far (angle, road surface, speed combination) to rescue it yourself. What I like about cars without any of these gimmicks is that you know how far you can push it to avoid becoming a statistic. That's why so many Imprezas, Lancer Evos and Elises end up being written off; they are SO good round corners that even the incompetent can drive ridiculously quickly in perceived safety. Then suddenly conditions change (standing water, mud, unexpectedly sharp corner) and through a lack of experience, they **** themselves, stamp on the brakes and fill in that insurance claim form. Just like in trading, over-confidence comes before a wipe out.

That's true, the laws of physics can't be overcome.

That's why so many people build accidents driving SUV's. Lotsa weight at a high center of gravity won't save you anymore than 4 wheel drive if you have to brake mighty quickly all of a sudden or drive left-right evasion manoeuver round an elk running up in front of you.



But people think hey,I have 4 wheel drive and ABS, and drive their cars on tricky roads like they were glued to the asphalt which you're not.

 

[shadowninja]

Indeed. I believe VW had complaints from dumb owners about their Touregs sliding in the snow when they first launched it.

Mind you, I suppose it was their fault for running the ad with the Toureg being the only car to turn up on a snowy day outside some school.

 

[ATX]

To the OP... what about a 911? I've got a 2007 911 CS and love it to bits. If you go second hand you'd be able to get a very nice one for your budget. There are lots of cars you can get in the 40-50k budget range. Doors are opened to 911's, Ferrari 360's, Aston Martin DB9/V8 Vantage and pretty much any BMW, Audi and Merc etc.

Personally, if i had to choose between an RS4 and an S5 then i'd go with the S5, but that's just me. Also remember 40-50k will get you a very nice second hand 911, but if you look down the route of Ferrari's, Aston Martin's and Bentely's etc, remember you're going to be buying cars at the bottom end of the market. Also remember that when you start buying cars like just mentioned, buying the car is only one factor, as running costs can get very very very pricey. I had a ferrari 360 once and it was the most expensive experience of my life (was still good though

Good luck.

 

[karl6666]

To the OP... what about a 911? I've got a 2007 911 CS and love it to bits. If you go second hand you'd be able to get a very nice one for your budget. There are lots of cars you can get in the 40-50k budget range. Doors are opened to 911's, Ferrari 360's, Aston Martin DB9/V8 Vantage and pretty much any BMW, Audi and Merc etc.

Personally, if i had to choose between an RS4 and an S5 then i'd go with the S5, but that's just me. Also remember 40-50k will get you a very nice second hand 911, but if you look down the route of Ferrari's, Aston Martin's and Bentely's etc, remember you're going to be buying cars at the bottom end of the market. Also remember that when you start buying cars like just mentioned, buying the car is only one factor, as running costs can get very very very pricey. I had a ferrari 360 once and it was the most expensive experience of my life (was still good though

Good luck.

anyone who buys an RS4, is a drvg dealer or doesnt have the balls to floor it, they may aswell buy a second hand golf for £3k.

£40 - 50 k would get you a second hand 911 C4S cabriolet and a golf

I own

Nissan GTR 09
Subaru WRX 07

and the wife has a b class merc for transporting the screaming skull around. Unless you intend to burn rubber buy a 'smart car', which i love (hire car recently in south of france)

k

:smart: