Can the Labour party re-invent Socialism ?

I see the Unions are getting so exited about Comrade Corbyn's election that they are promising plenty of strikes and agitation on Britain's streets. Just like the 70s all over again then ?

They don't learn that it was just those tactics that kept Labour out of office for years.
 
A lot of good points made above.
This country does tend to copy the US. How they run their country is of course their business but one hopes that the minimum wage here doesn't get to their so low purchasing power mw that many are forced to work 2 jobs to stay afloat. I think this causes unnecessary anxiety and stress. There is a current boom in violent murders now ? Even envy that Trump like people can swan about without even showing any care for the less fortunate. The Front Bench of grinning millionaires is almost enough to make one vote for Corbyn.

This country could and should in my opinion pay enough in the state pension to let the retired live in some comfort. There is a huge well of well honed talent out there among the retirees and it is basically unused.

They would not have to work two jobs if they actually used that 3 lbs (1.4 kgs) of tissue in their head and made themselves relevant and got a decent job. Getting degrees in worthwhile subjects are how you avoid being the working class. Study law, medicine, chemistry, physics, mathematics,..., etc.. Those degrees never go out of style, at least in the US, which are more LIKELY, not guaranteed to land you a decent paying job.
 
They would not have to work two jobs if they actually used that 3 lbs (1.4 kgs) of tissue in their head and made themselves relevant and got a decent job. Getting degrees in worthwhile subjects are how you avoid being the working class. Study law, medicine, chemistry, physics, mathematics,..., etc.. Those degrees never go out of style, at least in the US, which are more LIKELY, not guaranteed to land you a decent paying job.


Totally agree. This is not blaming the poor for being poor, but rather pointing out the prizes don't go to those who are passive, unambitious, fearful of failure.

Its a common observation that the sons and daughters of members of these professions often follow in their parents' footsteps, so that when one generation breaks this barrier, it is likely to have a beneficial effect on the next and beyond.

On the other hand, its depressing to hear parents deterring their offspring from education because of the costs, and suggesting a secure job close to home might be something to aim for. Inverted class snobbery still persists, at least in the UK: the "not for the likes of us" syndrome.

Taking this further, its also a common observation that migrants can often be highly ambitious to improve their social situaion, sometimes visibly out-achieving host populations.
 
. . .This is not blaming the poor for being poor, but rather pointing out the prizes don't go to those who are passive, unambitious, fearful of failure . . .
Well, one could argue that this is what divides socialists from tories and, if it comes down to this single observation - then I guess I'm a socialist at heart. The reason is simple: we can't all be lawyers, doctors, dentists and scientists etc. If everyone was educated, fearless and ambitious to improve their lot in life, then who's going to empty my rubbish bins and wipe my ar$e for me when I'm no longer able to do it myself? So, I say thank god for the fearful and unambitious folk who - for whatever reason - chose not to exercise their intellectual muscle. They are the ones who are prepared to do the jobs the rest of us don't want to do. IMO, these people deserve to be celebrated and rewarded (more than they are currently) for doing the important work that they do. Those who think such people are 'not relevant' are being short sighted in my view, and are sure to change their minds if/when they realise just how much they depend upon them.
Tim.
 
Well, one could argue that this is what divides socialists from tories and, if it comes down to this single observation - then I guess I'm a socialist at heart. The reason is simple: we can't all be lawyers, doctors, dentists and scientists etc. If everyone was educated, fearless and ambitious to improve their lot in life, then who's going to empty my rubbish bins and wipe my ar$e for me when I'm no longer able to do it myself? So, I say thank god for the fearful and unambitious folk who - for whatever reason - chose not to exercise their intellectual muscle. They are the ones who are prepared to do the jobs the rest of us don't want to do. IMO, these people deserve to be celebrated and rewarded (more than they are currently) for doing the important work that they do. Those who think such people are 'not relevant' are being short sighted in my view, and are sure to change their minds if/when they realise just how much they depend upon them.
Tim.


Well Tim, everyone has to say the people who keep society running are doing a great job and I've much respect for them.

But they are not victims because they earn little money. They do not to be raised from where they are by means of a redistribution of wealth dictat, let alone the "overthrow of capitalism" (John McDonnell, Shadow Chancellor).
 
Well, one could argue that this is what divides socialists from tories and, if it comes down to this single observation - then I guess I'm a socialist at heart. The reason is simple: we can't all be lawyers, doctors, dentists and scientists etc. If everyone was educated, fearless and ambitious to improve their lot in life, then who's going to empty my rubbish bins and wipe my ar$e for me when I'm no longer able to do it myself? So, I say thank god for the fearful and unambitious folk who - for whatever reason - chose not to exercise their intellectual muscle. They are the ones who are prepared to do the jobs the rest of us don't want to do. IMO, these people deserve to be celebrated and rewarded (more than they are currently) for doing the important work that they do. Those who think such people are 'not relevant' are being short sighted in my view, and are sure to change their minds if/when they realise just how much they depend upon them.
Tim.

Adding to what @tomorton said, not all poor people are poor by design. It is not always the case that poor people are such because of a physical or mental inability. I would venture to say that the majority are poor for lack of ambition. They keep themselves down. We should celebrate CEOs more, not less. We should never celebrate those that do not do something great, lest we slap those in the face that have accomplished greatness. Garbage men are necessary, but not great. Be thankful but do not applaud such lackluster behavior and accomplishments.

We should take care of those who truly cannot help themselves, not those who choose to not help themselves.
 
Who is to blame for the destruction of capital? The unions, or capital, itself?

How is it that a busman earned 4 pounds weekly before WW2 and today earns hundreds? When there is not enough money in circulation the central banks print it.

Anyone who saves for a rainy day these days is a mug. Savings pots and pensions have been decimated and those who are making money have to try to make more, just to keep up.

All this debate about who should be taken care of is a load of talk and nothing more, because everyone is out for grabs. That is one of the reasons that all these immigrants are frightening the established workforce, while usiness is rubbing its hands at the prospect of cheaper manpower.

Business needs the consumer, whether he be a garbageman or someone higher up the pay scale and business wants that consumer to be prosperous. That is why the government is talking about a fair wage for all, so as to help the country out of the doldrums.

What goes around, comes around.
 
Who is to blame for the destruction of capital? The unions, or capital, itself?

How is it that a busman earned 4 pounds weekly before WW2 and today earns hundreds? When there is not enough money in circulation the central banks print it.

Anyone who saves for a rainy day these days is a mug. Savings pots and pensions have been decimated and those who are making money have to try to make more, just to keep up.

All this debate about who should be taken care of is a load of talk and nothing more, because everyone is out for grabs. That is one of the reasons that all these immigrants are frightening the established workforce, while usiness is rubbing its hands at the prospect of cheaper manpower.

Business needs the consumer, whether he be a garbageman or someone higher up the pay scale and business wants that consumer to be prosperous. That is why the government is talking about a fair wage for all, so as to help the country out of the doldrums.

What goes around, comes around.

The feckless employees need the business owners more as they need to be employed in order to become a consumer. They lack the ambition to become a business owner. It is simple supply and demand. Entrepreneurs are rarer and as such through supply and demand are more valuable. They give purpose to those who have none. Employees are a dime a dozen as such are less valuable because there are a plethora of them. We need to sponsor those with vision, not overtax them and vilify them.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!!
 
. . . We should never celebrate those that do not do something great. . .
Care jobs (in the U.K. at least - no idea about the U.S.) are two a penny and, for the most part, are paid national minimum wage. In my book, people that do them do do something great and I for one celebrate them. When you're old and need a care worker to look after you, you may reflect on the wisdom (or lack thereof) of your comment.

. . . .lest we slap those in the face that have accomplished greatness. . ..
Flawed logic if ever I heard it, lol! It wasn't implied by my last post and I certainly don't think it.

. . . .Garbage men are necessary, but not great. Be thankful but do not applaud such lackluster behavior and accomplishments. . . .
You might take a different view when your streets start to look like this . . .
Refuse.jpg

. . . . We should take care of those who truly cannot help themselves, not those who choose to not help themselves. . .
Seriously, are you actually suggesting that refuse collectors and care workers et al "choose to not help themselves"? It's one thing to be right wing in one's views, but that's pretty offensive to millions of hard working people doing important jobs on very low pay.

Besides the above hhiusa, if everyone did as you advocate, many of the unambitious and lacklustre people might be a whole heap smarter than you imagine and you might be the one who ends up without a job and forced to become a refuse collector or care worker. Oh what wonderful irony that would be!
:LOL:
Tim.
 
Care jobs (in the U.K. at least - no idea about the U.S.) are two a penny and, for the most part, are paid national minimum wage. In my book, people that do them do do something great and I for one celebrate them. When you're old and need a care worker to look after you, you may reflect on the wisdom (or lack thereof) of your comment.

That is the problem with nationalized medicine. :p In the US, general practitioners are beginning to disallow medicare patients and others under the ACA (Affordable Care Act). The government says you only need to make $65.00 per visit, so doctors begin to cram his appointments together. Now, doctors make you pay something akin to a retainer. You give them $1,500.00 up front. They deduct your visit from your retainer and you apply for reimbursement from your insurance. In this manner, the doctor can give your better care, the visits are much longer and the case load is lower, which means less errors are likely to happen. Now they make $250.00 per visit. They have worked very hard to be where they are. They deserve to be paid well. You should research concierge medicine.

Flawed logic if ever I heard it, lol! It wasn't implied by my last post and I certainly don't think it.

I am all ears @timsk. Please explain further the flawed logic I used.

You might take a different view when your streets start to look like this . . .
View attachment 200232

Seriously, are you actually suggesting that refuse collectors and care workers et al "choose to not help themselves"? It's one thing to be right wing in one's views, but that's pretty offensive to millions of hard working people doing important jobs on very low pay.

I would not take a different view. That should be a warning to the future of non-congested areas to not turn into those areas. People should stop proliferating like bunny rabbits so that they could afford to live in a better area.

Besides the above hhiusa, if everyone did as you advocate, many of the unambitious and lacklustre people might be a whole heap smarter than you imagine and you might be the one who ends up without a job and forced to become a refuse collector or care worker. Oh what wonderful irony that would be!
:LOL:
Tim.

There would be nothing wrong with that. I do not find it ironic. If that scenario were to come to pass, they would definitely deserve what they worked so hard for. Additionally, if those same people started to become successful, they would begin to think more like a Tory. They would begin to think "hmm I made it here, so why can‘t they get off their bum and do it too?"
 
Well he's saying something that will certainly please his leader's electors - but although its not exactly clear who they are, they're not the voting British public.
 
It's OK guys, they're only going to tax winning trades. Those losing money on trading will get enhanced tax credits.

Vote Old Labour. A breath of stale air - from the crypt.
 
We all know that if those clowns ever form a Govt. they will be putting taxes on ALL trades and kill the business in the UK. Probably try and stop trading with overseas companies too. What a shower.
 
We used to export our traitors like Philby, Blake, Burgess, McLean etc.to Russia. Perhaps they will accept Comrade Jeremy ? Or do we have to bribe them ?
:LOL:
 
Well he's saying something that will certainly please his leader's electors - but although its not exactly clear who they are, they're not the voting British public.

Some silly clot in the Labour Party changed the rules on electing a new Chairman. Should have stuck with the MPs electing one of themselves. I mean how stupid can you get ?
 
Лево право

That's left right in Russian. Don't know how to pronounce them though.

Perhaps its quack quack for the goose step ?

:cheesy:
 
Лево право

That's left right in Russian. Don't know how to pronounce them though.

Perhaps its quack quack for the goose step ?

:cheesy:

I am surprised you don't know how. They may as well be teaching Russian in the UK.
 
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