Calling all "Senior Members T2W" Experienced traders! Help Newbies?

[SOCRATES]

BBB

As others have already said it is the content of the messages that we are presented with concerning trading that we should be concentrating on. If the content is brought into question from a trading perspective then that is fine. The issue of matters outside this remit are for each individual to consider for him or herself. It's simple Socrates does not HAVE to explain himself for this thread to continue, it is a matter of posters wishing to remain interested in this thread if they are willing to read any new posts on the subject of trading from Socrates based on the content of the message and NOT who the message is from.

We have only heard one side of the story and as someone has already attempted to remind us using this medium is very easy to form the wrong perception from the word, or sentence used by another poster. How for example do you know that the comments made by Socrates in a recent post are directed at 13, there maybe a wider situation here than you think.

I agree entirely with most that have posted this WAS a very interesting thread and the best way to move forward is to stay if you accept the content of messages and post on them rather than to do as I have and respond to another request for Socrates to answer a charge against him. If he decides to post on these issues that is up to him end of the matter. If you do not accept that then leave so that the thread can begin to get back to the matter of trading.

Regards

Kevin

I do not have to explain myself. There is nothing to explain. What there is to do, is to read between the lines written by someone who DESPITE PERSISTENT WARNINGS WITH INCREASING LOUDNESS, CLARITY AND FEROCITY succeeded in ignoring everything and just ploughed ahead, began to trade before he was fit to do so, ignored stops, chose rapid, volatile instuments he did not understand, in multiples, made a mess of everything, and then sought to insist he was still right and then goes on to seek what he perceived as revenge by creating controversy. He then goes round the circuit to pester others only to be told the same things, and to be given exactly the same warnings. These he ignores again and fails once again. Who is to blame here ? And then he goes to the USA and he is again told the same things and given the same warnings again, and he ignores everything because, of course he knows better, and he fails again ? Who is to blame here ?

 

[SOCRATES]

I think some very serious and grave questions have come to light here.

We all have done things in the past which we can see were mistakes with the benefit of hindsight, though at the time may have seemed amusing - although these particular questions I believe do go beyond these realms.

I think any person of sound mind, body and soul would say that such racist behaviour these days is intolerable - and the days of previous generations where such attitudes were acceptable are long gone.

Personally, I believe Socrates owes an explanation to us all - if he wishes to be taken seriously. Ignoring the point or casually brushing aside such a dark shadow in such a cavalier way asks further questions.

Calling other people 'idiots' and 'failures' when they have a different way of communicating, or request factual information from a self proclaimed expert, especially when it is unlikely he has ever met the individual rings alarm bells in my mind. It encourages thoughts that may be the individual is blinkered, and ridden full of various prejudices (that will surely cripple one in the markets) that are at stark contradiction to what he (Socrates) dictates.

Markets either move up, down or sideways. Socrates is either guilty, innocent, or he refuses to explain leaving you all in limbo. What ever response comes out (if one ever does) some of you will fade the response, some of you will go with it. Personally however, if such dark malicious accusations were made against myself, I'd want to put the record straight. Wouldn't you?

Quite interestingly, it seems that some people already believe that he is innocent - purely from the long drawn out content of his posts! Again this is an interesting point as it comes straight back to perception. Do I believe he is guilty? Well, lets just say it wouldn't surprise me if he was. I base that opinion purely upon the way I have seen him attempt to bully and ridicule people before (the market is making new lows). I do however hope that I am wrong.

Anyway, I dont come by this way as often as I used to - so I hope the thread gets back to where it was.

Just read my post above, I am not going to spend all day on this.

 

[SOCRATES]

Right, let us talk about unlearning ~ do you want to hear it or not ? !

 

[Glenn]

Unlearning

Right, let us talk about unlearning ~ do you want to hear it or not ? !

Yes please.
I have been trading for 5 years or more and still have periods where I lose my grip.
You have already helped me to become more consistent. Thank you.
Any more is most welcome.
Glenn

 

[darktone]

awwww

Go on then.

HEY UP ROG

 

[kevin546]

I also echo the comments above by Glenn by the way good post earlier, well said.

regards

Kevin

 

[tradesmart]

Yes Please...!

Yes Please...!!

Yes Please....!!!

(and thankyou in anticipation....)

 

[SOCRATES]

There is some mischief afoot here at the moment with unclear volumetric data, looks like arresting volume but not certain. I have to put my attention on it till the opening of Wall St. Let us see, if there is action you will have to wait ~ if there is none I can devote some time to it.

 

[dbphoenix]

I have to be amused at beginners' thought processes. Otherwise, I'd spend most of my time banging my head against the wall.

The logic of beginners is fascinating. They are incapable of determining on their own whether or not something is true, e.g., that Fib levels provide support and resistance. Instead, they hang on the every word of "expert traders", and they determine whether or not those traders are expert by evidence of performance. On the other hand, they think Van Tharp hung the moon even though he has demonstrated a complete lack of aptitude for trading (can Alexander Elder trade?). Perhaps they cling to their beliefs because Tharp has never to my knowledge posted to a message board, while those published authors and expert traders who have posted have been driven away. Why, after all, should they put up with the nonsense?

The point of which is not that Socrates -- whoever he is -- is a published author or even an expert trader. The point is that beginners who can't recognize the truth (which is nearly all of them) and who drive away those who might help them find it wind up with nothing and no one but each other, which is why they remain beginners in perpetuity.

 

[DaveJB]

Hopefully now back on track then?
I note somebody cleared the DaveJB/JB issue up earlier, but just to confirm it I'm who I say I am, nobody else, and I do not condone the use of multiple nics, or any other form of subterfuge. Wrong I may be, but dishonest I am not. I can quite understand the confusion though, so no offence of any kind is taken.

Regards to Glenn, and Ron (if he's still lurking) for excellent posts.

I'll shut up now <g>
Dave

 

[Sirlosealot]

Yes Please...!

Yes Please...!!

Yes Please....!!!

(and thankyou in anticipation....)

Tradesmart

I am writing this with great hesitation as I do not want to stir things up anymore.

In previous threads relating to Socrates you have identified yourself as a chief protagonist along the same lines as 13. And I'm in no way suggesting that you two are one and the same, but you have been known to use multiple nic have you not. I apologise unreservedly if I am wrong here but have you changed your tack and are your intentions here "honourable"? If not could I repeat my plea, that we let Socrates continue unheckled.

Regards

Gerard

 

[tradesmart]

I am writing this with great hesitation

Very Sensible......

but you have been you have identified yourself as a chief protagonist

Supply the evidence.....

known to use multiple nic have you not

Supply the evidence......

I apologise unreservedly if I am wrong here

You can do that right now........

(please..)

 

[Sirlosealot]

Tradesmart

I'm not sure what evidence you want. Just looking at the posts convinced me that you were one of the chief protagonists. I have no evidence of multiple nics as that is the way BBs work. It is easy to hide behind them. Are you honestly saying I am wrong. I may be a fool, I may be lots of things but I hope I am straightforward and I have no axe to grind or hidden agenda.

If you, hand on heart, say you are not what I suggested I will accept it and honestly apologise unreservedly. It is not my intention to stir things up. I am genuinely trying to ensure the smooth runnning of this thread. I do not intend to enter into a discussion about this. If you give your word you are not what I implied I seriously apologise. If you do not then I'm leaving it at that. Others can make what they will of it.

Regards

Gerard

 

[tradesmart]

I may be a fool

You said it.........

but this unfortunate condition can be "unlearned".......

 

[stevespray]

I have an idea......

Lets talk about 'un learning'....

Steve.

 

[kevin546]

What do we need to unlearn, is this topic as basic as our misconception of the markets or as I suspect a much deep rooted issue. My understanding of trading is that it is a very difficult enterprise and while it is possible to make easy money sometimes, it becomes harder to keep it when you continue to trade. A sign of success is the ability to continue to return profitable results over a considerable period, not just good results over a shorter period even if the profit is good. Sustained success is the goal one should aim for.

But emotions play there part to prevent progress so part of moving forward has to be to eradicate emotional thoughts from our mindset when trading. How can this be controlled and achieved seem to be some of the obvious questions. Some might suggest blocking out emotions by a set of strict rules where you follow it to the letter without question, if you can do this fine it may produce mechanical and disciplined trading. Hopefully others more knowledgeable is this area can take this further and show that I have not even touched on the problem.

Regards

Kevin

 

[bracke]

dbphoenix

"The point of which is not that Socrates -- whoever he is -- is a published author or even an expert trader. The point is that beginners who can't recognize the truth (which is nearly all of them) and who drive away those who might help them find it wind up with nothing and no one but each other, which is why they remain beginners in perpetuity."

Unfortunately what you say may be true but more unfortunately those beginners who can recognise the truth lose out because those who can help them are driven away.

I am not convinced that it is the majority who cannot recognise the truth. If you read through the posters on this thread I think that you will find that it is a minority who cause the problems and the majority who suffer.

I think it is Rough Justice.

The 'helpers' need the hide of an elephant or must be prepared to totally ignore some of the posts.

Regards

bracke

 

[DaveJB]

You may need a set of rules to follow exactly, or you may not.
You look at a chart, decide what the bars and volume indicate, look for support/resistance, and decide the likely direction, and quite possibly the expected gain, you estimate risk. At this point you can then worry - I've lost three trades on the trot, is this REALLY a good trade or am I kidding myself? Hang on, that previous top might offer resistance, maybe it'll top out there and take me out....ooo, mum....
A strict plan, followed according to the rules, without deviation, would avoid that - but then your mechanical system would not allow your brain, marvellous analytical engine that it is, to improve the selection process - ideally you would perhaps have a mechanical method for locating trade opportunities, but then apply TA skills to hone the process and ensure you took the best opportunities only.

Problem there is obvious - you might 'hone' the good trades out, develop doubt, and dither - either failing to trade as you hesitate, or failing to trade well as you mistime entry and exit waiting for 'confirmation'.

I throw that in as a discussion opener, so to speak, rather than as a fully rounded argument for/against mechanical trading... I'll also hold back on my opinion as to the optimum way of doing it, not least because I'm not a multi millionaire so to a fair degree I have an opinion rather than a fact.

Dave

 

[dbphoenix]

What do we need to unlearn

Okay, here's one:

The market is out to trick you. There is a vast global conspiracy of specialists, brokers, market makers dedicated to tripping your stops, creating gaps, concealing the truth, and otherwise making every effort to take your money.

 

[dbphoenix]

Here's another:

You have to be in to win.