Bracketed entry?

[bsk6969]

Is there any way to place 2 entry orders, one long and one short, simultaneously, in NT so that one could catch a run in the following direction?

 

[malaguti]

Is there any way to place 2 entry orders, one long and one short, simultaneously, in NT so that one could catch a run in the following direction?

what will you do with the trade thats losing you money; keep that running..so you bank your profit and you have an equally sized loss to deal with?

That will likely depend on your broker, but to get around it, you could have one trade as the cash price, and the other as the future but you might want to think about the answer to the first.

 

[bsk6969]

Actually, the idea is to place both orders (one long and one short) with stop losses of course. So even if the price begins in one direction, then turns to stop me out, what I am hoping to capture is the strong run in the returning direction with the other order. I'm referring to placing this trade at the open of the market, where one can expect a decent run in one direction or another.
Please help me to figure out the flaws with this.

 

[malaguti]

Actually, the idea is to place both orders (one long and one short) with stop losses of course. So even if the price begins in one direction, then turns to stop me out, what I am hoping to capture is the strong run in the returning direction with the other order. I'm referring to placing this trade at the open of the market, where one can expect a decent run in one direction or another.
Please help me to figure out the flaws with this.

have a read of this thread for the flaws
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/discretionary-trading/172660-can-you-long-short-same-time.html

simply, if you are able to judge the direction in the first place, then be in that direction only. You will save yourself the cost of being in two positions whilst at the same time not being in anything really

 

[bsk6969]

But that's just the thing with the market open - who knows which direction it's going to shoot in! But it inevitably does shoot in one direction, sometimes after a short bounce the other way. So I'm just trying to capitalize on this almost certain movement/spurt.

 

[malaguti]

But that's just the thing with the market open - who knows which direction it's going to shoot in! But it inevitably does shoot in one direction, sometimes after a short bounce the other way. So I'm just trying to capitalize on this almost certain movement/spurt.

the market opens at £1, you open a long and a short. the market goes up to 1.20
you are now 20points up, and 20 points down and paying twice the cost.
what are you now going to do? Bank the long? marvellous, you are 20 up, oh no you still have a 20 loss to deal with..it continues going up..now its 1.30 so you close your short. you end up with a nett loss and twice the cost.
can you not see the flaw yet?

 

[darktone]

Actually, the idea is to place both orders (one long and one short) with stop losses of course. So even if the price begins in one direction, then turns to stop me out, what I am hoping to capture is the strong run in the returning direction with the other order. I'm referring to placing this trade at the open of the market, where one can expect a decent run in one direction or another.
Please help me to figure out the flaws with this.

Your taking about bracket orders right? ie:
last price is 100
you place a stop to go long at 120 with a contingent stop 100
you also place a stop to go short at 80 with a contingent stop at 100

I cant imagine that NT doesnt have this feature!

 

[darktone]

If you intend to use stop orders id be careful where you use them. Keep them away from fast or thin markets! Especially news releases. Slippage will be a killer!
Long gone are the days when brokers were offering guaranteed fills to pull in the punters!

 

[NVP]

Is there any way to place 2 entry orders, one long and one short, simultaneously, in NT so that one could catch a run in the following direction?

sure......unscrupulous Vendors do it all the time to rig their "proven" Trading results and performance when you look at their Brokers account

N

 

[bsk6969]

Actually I found their ability to do this. thanx.

 

[bsk6969]

the market opens at £1, you open a long and a short. the market goes up to 1.20
you are now 20points up, and 20 points down and paying twice the cost.
what are you now going to do? Bank the long? marvellous, you are 20 up, oh no you still have a 20 loss to deal with..it continues going up..now its 1.30 so you close your short. you end up with a nett loss and twice the cost.
can you not see the flaw yet?

That's a little bit wrong. You're assuming that both orders get filled at the same time. Let me clarify and see if it helps to paint the picture I'm hoping to play out...
Let's say the market is at 1.00 right before the open and so I place 2 limit orders (with obvious stop losses), one to go short at .90 and one to go long at 1.10.
So initially, when the market opens and pushes one direction or the other, only one order will be filled.
Now, often there is a small push at the open in one direction or another before the market jets off in the other direction for the bigger push, so the stop loss certainly has to be in place (probably a conservative one) to minimize any loss from the possible initial turnaround, but the following surge in the other direction could handsomely make up for that small loss as it zooms past your other standing order for the other direction.
Is that a better picture?
Please pick apart my scenario.

 

[malaguti]

That's a little bit wrong. You're assuming that both orders get filled at the same time. Let me clarify and see if it helps to paint the picture I'm hoping to play out...
Let's say the market is at 1.00 right before the open and so I place 2 limit orders (with obvious stop losses), one to go short at .90 and one to go long at 1.10.
So initially, when the market opens and pushes one direction or the other, only one order will be filled.
Now, often there is a small push at the open in one direction or another before the market jets off in the other direction for the bigger push, so the stop loss certainly has to be in place (probably a conservative one) to minimize any loss from the possible initial turnaround, but the following surge in the other direction could handsomely make up for that small loss as it zooms past your other standing order for the other direction.
Is that a better picture?
Please pick apart my scenario.

pick it apart..ok simple..your order gets filled at 1.10 gets to 1.12 woopy doo
market starts coming back down, and hits your short order at 0.90. then guess what happens...
Believe me, it does happen.
try it though, just simply get a demo account and trade it just heed darktone's sound advice.

And yes, thanks, that does now sound much clearer, I couldn't quite get me head past the at the same time bit

 

[bsk6969]

Ok, thanx. I needed some other perspective on that.

 

[malaguti]

Ok, thanx. I needed some other perspective on that.

no problem, just sorry it took so long to get there
my advice is try to get the direction first..no we cant ever know where its going, but you can have a bloody good idea. Or at least should.