It seems clear that the debate of the scams that take place can open a can off worms.. For the record .. There is no excuse for taking money from people that dont get what they are promised ... However having been on the phone and in the work place of these operations the ease at which it takes place is nothing short of stunning .. I have yet to meet a single person in these places that does not get stunned in the early days at how easy it is or should I say was, to con the greedy person on the end of a phone. It can take as little as three hours from the first call to get a transfer proof that funds have indeed left their victim. Australia has succeeded in stopping some of these transfers and it seems by keeping the banks informed and the banks raising the question as to what the funds are for and ultimatly the customer stoping the transfer. My deep distrust of banks actualy leads me to think they do it for their own gains of selling the customer one of their products instead I am sure many of you agree. With regards to my position I stand firm that what goes around comes around and the fact that even if alot of the money taken by these scams is neither ethical or right, i am equaly sure an even larger amount taken was obtained by the "victim " using unethical manner and at cost to others. Natrually there is no way to prove it and I doubt there ever will be, but the number of people that I spoke to that aired concern as to the monies visabilty to the TAX departments certainly confirms this aspect. I might add the true gains of these scams is far higher than can be realised due to most people that get conned not coming forward as they do not want to be known. I ask everyone if the money was obtained legally why wouldnt you want it back and kick up hell to get it ? I actually know of one customer asking for the room I was in to destroy his records and in return he would walk away and forget what we did to him.. 450,000 usd .. I wonder why ?
Boiler Room Scams
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macthibuoi
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^ and that, ladies and gentlemen, is how one justifies stealing........
Scams
Good debate. Interesting to read the view from Notstupid but I'm sure he is aware that as well as the greedy and questionable people to whom he refers, there are a lot of naive people who simply get reeled in by these clever and unscrupulous thieves. I, for one, would gladly 'kick up hell' to regain what I naively thought of as a better investment opportunity than leaving my hard-earned in a low interest bank account. Stupid but true. The problem is there is nowhere to turn within the law and not all of us know of other ways to regain our losses. There seems to be no interest in doing anything to stop these thieves, even within the EU. It is easier for the authorities and knowledgable contributors to these websites to say that somebody has been stupid, naive, greedy or reckless and ignore a growing problem than it is to take or suggest action to recover losses. That's probably becuase nobody really knows of any way to do so, even when the name and address of the scammer is known. Unless there is a determined effort from the financial authorities/fraud squads/banks/political powers, to recover the stolen money from these people, they will continue to operate, often within the EU, thieving large sums of money from unsuspecting individuals. We all know that is not going to happen so if you have any suggestions on how to recover losses, it would be useful to hear them.
Good debate. Interesting to read the view from Notstupid but I'm sure he is aware that as well as the greedy and questionable people to whom he refers, there are a lot of naive people who simply get reeled in by these clever and unscrupulous thieves. I, for one, would gladly 'kick up hell' to regain what I naively thought of as a better investment opportunity than leaving my hard-earned in a low interest bank account. Stupid but true. The problem is there is nowhere to turn within the law and not all of us know of other ways to regain our losses. There seems to be no interest in doing anything to stop these thieves, even within the EU. It is easier for the authorities and knowledgable contributors to these websites to say that somebody has been stupid, naive, greedy or reckless and ignore a growing problem than it is to take or suggest action to recover losses. That's probably becuase nobody really knows of any way to do so, even when the name and address of the scammer is known. Unless there is a determined effort from the financial authorities/fraud squads/banks/political powers, to recover the stolen money from these people, they will continue to operate, often within the EU, thieving large sums of money from unsuspecting individuals. We all know that is not going to happen so if you have any suggestions on how to recover losses, it would be useful to hear them.
macthibuoi
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Droyston
Agreed, it does sometimes seem like there is nothing be done about these boiler room guys. However, the FSA, police and the media have stepped up efforts in recent years as the scam has become more widespread. They can only really warn potential investors though as these scams are so multi jurisdictional it would almost impossible to make a coordinated effort. They are making headway though......i have it from a very good sources that it is getting difficult to target markets like UK, EU, Australia. In my view the only way to make a dent in the scam is to take away what these guys sell most of the time, US OTCBB shares. You know the saying "a salesman needs product".......As for using greed as justification, I don't buy it, it's pure robbery, nothing less......
Agreed, it does sometimes seem like there is nothing be done about these boiler room guys. However, the FSA, police and the media have stepped up efforts in recent years as the scam has become more widespread. They can only really warn potential investors though as these scams are so multi jurisdictional it would almost impossible to make a coordinated effort. They are making headway though......i have it from a very good sources that it is getting difficult to target markets like UK, EU, Australia. In my view the only way to make a dent in the scam is to take away what these guys sell most of the time, US OTCBB shares. You know the saying "a salesman needs product".......As for using greed as justification, I don't buy it, it's pure robbery, nothing less......
Using the excuse that rich people want to hide there money from the authorities is still no excuse for these scams, nor is it justification. Quoting 1 client in the tens of thousands worldwide does still not conform to "end justifying the means". For centuries people have wanted to avoid the tax man, there is tax evasion, (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal) there is nothing wrong with structuring companies and trusts offshore to lower your tax bracket.
However, tell me notstupid, where is it legal to steal someones money on false pretences whether the stock exists or not (companies like Argus global and millenium sold blue chip stock) telling people they are going to see "significant gains when this news gets out" Just because someone has more money than you, where and what gives you the right to steal it? If I find a boiler room owner, and I beat him to death, does the end justify the means because I might have been greedy? do you think I might serve jail time? you know as well as I do I would!
The greater amusement is in watching them get arrested, tried and sentanced.
So notstupid, out with some details we can use, as much as it might not get anyones money back, it might help you sleep at night, and then also, there might be some justification within this business.
Hi guys,
I've recently been contacted by a firm called Morgan Financial Advisors, namely their Tokyo branch office, dealing with offshore accounts.
There actually is firm in the USA (two actually) named Morgan Financial Advisors, it is also registered with SEC. They offered me stocks from Sirius Satellite Radio, according to them the stock will explode, when merger between Sirius and XM Radio becomes official. There actually is a merger attempt between the two in progress, however, analyst are sceptical that it will go through...
Their website (there is another website, but they explained that this one is used exclusivly for their offshore branch in Tokyo) is www.morgan-advisors.com
Has anyone had previous experience with this company. Any info would be highly appreciated...
I've recently been contacted by a firm called Morgan Financial Advisors, namely their Tokyo branch office, dealing with offshore accounts.
There actually is firm in the USA (two actually) named Morgan Financial Advisors, it is also registered with SEC. They offered me stocks from Sirius Satellite Radio, according to them the stock will explode, when merger between Sirius and XM Radio becomes official. There actually is a merger attempt between the two in progress, however, analyst are sceptical that it will go through...
Their website (there is another website, but they explained that this one is used exclusivly for their offshore branch in Tokyo) is www.morgan-advisors.com
Has anyone had previous experience with this company. Any info would be highly appreciated...
Hi,
There is already stuff elsewhere about these guys on the board which Anley had picked up on, see the link below,
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=26026
Have tried to do a look up on them, they have closed all rogots from seeing their site now by the looks of it, this means unless someone links in directly like these pages do, they wont show up in the usual domain search places too easily. As a company, you would only do this if you were a scam, from a marketing point of view, why would you want to hide your website. Obviously a scam, do not send money to them, post on as many boards as you can!
Basically, scam, fraud, thieves, are good words to use, then, a well spidered site like this will show up in the search results will show up if people look.
There may or may not be a merger going on, whether there is or not, you wont see your money again!
have you heard of them
has any one heard of barclay-hoffman or charles maxwell offering royal petrolieum. if not then watch out they are cold calling good chat
LondonUSTrader
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Boiler Rooms
A simple rule of thumb will avoid many problems with boiler rooms. Do not deal with anyone based abroad and not regulated by the FSA.
A simple rule of thumb will avoid many problems with boiler rooms. Do not deal with anyone based abroad and not regulated by the FSA.
Scams - more names for the list
Here are a few more names for the list, all cold callers making offers of 'investments' which could not possibly lose!!
Name Claim to be based Name given
Trenheman and Schultz Barcelona Piers Foley
Sterling Montague Switzerland
Klein International Switzerland Connor Wilton
Armstrong Aquisitions USA
Blue Accent Switzerland Roger Middleton
Vertical Analysis London James Hardwicke
Crestwell Analysis USA James Light
Hoskins Investments London
I receive regular calls and it's very interesting listening to their range of crap but, as a severly damaged 'investor', I only listen for fun these days and strongly recommend people to steer well clear of any cold callers. You will lose your money. I'll keep adding to the list as more of these thieves call me and would encourage others to do the same. At least some people may be saved from losing their hard-earned.
Here are a few more names for the list, all cold callers making offers of 'investments' which could not possibly lose!!
Name Claim to be based Name given
Trenheman and Schultz Barcelona Piers Foley
Sterling Montague Switzerland
Klein International Switzerland Connor Wilton
Armstrong Aquisitions USA
Blue Accent Switzerland Roger Middleton
Vertical Analysis London James Hardwicke
Crestwell Analysis USA James Light
Hoskins Investments London
I receive regular calls and it's very interesting listening to their range of crap but, as a severly damaged 'investor', I only listen for fun these days and strongly recommend people to steer well clear of any cold callers. You will lose your money. I'll keep adding to the list as more of these thieves call me and would encourage others to do the same. At least some people may be saved from losing their hard-earned.
thanks
thank droyston for the new names mine keeps calling. seems strange even when i told him i could not find any trace of the company on the web and neither had my bank heard of them to which he replied that they were not allowed to comment on other companies. so hes trying hard. so lets keep adding those names to save others.
thank droyston for the new names mine keeps calling. seems strange even when i told him i could not find any trace of the company on the web and neither had my bank heard of them to which he replied that they were not allowed to comment on other companies. so hes trying hard. so lets keep adding those names to save others.
Phoenix Capital Partners
Has anyone heard of/invested with the above people - possibly now known as PHX Holdings? They're based in Gabarone, Botswana and were previously in South Africa. Don't know if they're a boiler room or not but would appreciate benefit of others' experiences please. They're presently flogging something called 'Laipac' as an investment for all it's worth and their previously flogged investments include: Tektronics and Black Sea Prospects. They would seem to have made use of the investment brain of a Mr Rakesh Saxena (presently in trouble with the Thai authorities) at some stage and the whole set-up seems to be thoroughly muddled, to put it mildly. There must be some investors somewhere in the world who know them and don't mind telling their experiences for the benefit of others.
Has anyone heard of/invested with the above people - possibly now known as PHX Holdings? They're based in Gabarone, Botswana and were previously in South Africa. Don't know if they're a boiler room or not but would appreciate benefit of others' experiences please. They're presently flogging something called 'Laipac' as an investment for all it's worth and their previously flogged investments include: Tektronics and Black Sea Prospects. They would seem to have made use of the investment brain of a Mr Rakesh Saxena (presently in trouble with the Thai authorities) at some stage and the whole set-up seems to be thoroughly muddled, to put it mildly. There must be some investors somewhere in the world who know them and don't mind telling their experiences for the benefit of others.
Jamie Williams
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Justice can be Got
Hi All
I am a new member and I would like to pass some information on to all victims of the vermin that have conned me and others like me , I was contacted by E mail by some guys that have set up in an attempt to get their money back from a Scam that they themselves fell victim to a few years ago, they gave me some information that was invaluable in getting some of my money back. Even if the authorities here in Australia said I had a zero chance . I have looked at the forums allways tried to console myself that as i was not the only victim things would get better and time would heal ... I got some back, it took a while but I did it ... There is hope I will gladly pass details on to whoever wishes, I understand these guys need enough people of each company to be able to get an efficient result on each company that has conned people. Let me know if you want more details.
Jamie
Hi All
I am a new member and I would like to pass some information on to all victims of the vermin that have conned me and others like me , I was contacted by E mail by some guys that have set up in an attempt to get their money back from a Scam that they themselves fell victim to a few years ago, they gave me some information that was invaluable in getting some of my money back. Even if the authorities here in Australia said I had a zero chance . I have looked at the forums allways tried to console myself that as i was not the only victim things would get better and time would heal ... I got some back, it took a while but I did it ... There is hope I will gladly pass details on to whoever wishes, I understand these guys need enough people of each company to be able to get an efficient result on each company that has conned people. Let me know if you want more details.
Jamie
Jamie Williams
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You lost so did I but there is hope
Hi All
I am a new member and I would like to pass some information on to all victims of the vermin that have conned me and others like me , I was contacted by E mail by some guys that have set up in an attempt to get their money back from a Scam that they themselves fell victim to a few years ago, they gave me some information that was invaluable in getting some of my money back. Even if the authorities here in Australia said I had a zero chance . I have looked at the forums and always tried to console myself that i was not the only victim things must get better and time would heal ... I got some money back, it took a while but I did it ... There is hope.. I will gladly pass details on to whoever wishes, I understand these guys need enough people of each company to be able to get an efficient result on each company that has conned people. Let me know if you want more details.
Jamie
Hi All
I am a new member and I would like to pass some information on to all victims of the vermin that have conned me and others like me , I was contacted by E mail by some guys that have set up in an attempt to get their money back from a Scam that they themselves fell victim to a few years ago, they gave me some information that was invaluable in getting some of my money back. Even if the authorities here in Australia said I had a zero chance . I have looked at the forums and always tried to console myself that i was not the only victim things must get better and time would heal ... I got some money back, it took a while but I did it ... There is hope.. I will gladly pass details on to whoever wishes, I understand these guys need enough people of each company to be able to get an efficient result on each company that has conned people. Let me know if you want more details.
Jamie
Call me cynical, Jamie, but you sound just like a scammer yourself.
Same message cut and pasted, with two different titles, an hour apart. Almost as though you were reading the forum before you pasted.
If - as you claim- you can get money back, why not post how you did it for everyone to read. Unless you're collecting a list of gullible people to have a second crack at. Your way to get your money back wouldn't involve paying a proportion up front to a third party would it?
Same message cut and pasted, with two different titles, an hour apart. Almost as though you were reading the forum before you pasted.
If - as you claim- you can get money back, why not post how you did it for everyone to read. Unless you're collecting a list of gullible people to have a second crack at. Your way to get your money back wouldn't involve paying a proportion up front to a third party would it?
Jamie Williams
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get some back
Hi All
I am a new member and I would like to pass some information on to all victims of the vermin that have conned me and others like me , I was contacted by E mail by some guys that have set up in an attempt to get their money back from a Scam that they themselves fell victim to a few years ago, they gave me some information that was invaluable in getting some of my money back. Even if the authorities here in Australia said I had a zero chance . I have looked at the forums allways tried to console myself that as i was not the only victim things would get better and time would heal ... I got some back, it took a while but I did it ... There is hope I will gladly pass details on to whoever wishes, I understand these guys need enough people of each company to be able to get an efficient result on each company that has conned people. Let me know if you want more details.
Jamie
Hi All
I am a new member and I would like to pass some information on to all victims of the vermin that have conned me and others like me , I was contacted by E mail by some guys that have set up in an attempt to get their money back from a Scam that they themselves fell victim to a few years ago, they gave me some information that was invaluable in getting some of my money back. Even if the authorities here in Australia said I had a zero chance . I have looked at the forums allways tried to console myself that as i was not the only victim things would get better and time would heal ... I got some back, it took a while but I did it ... There is hope I will gladly pass details on to whoever wishes, I understand these guys need enough people of each company to be able to get an efficient result on each company that has conned people. Let me know if you want more details.
Jamie
