Best time frame for the inexperienced?

[Black Swan]

One needs to adjust for the scale of course. But that's all. Honestly, in terms of the TF it really doesn't matter to me, with some obvious points excepted such as order flow around key areas and so on.

The "better entries on lower TFs" argument is not a good one in my opinion. I can see it appealing in theory (and of course it does sometimes happen that you can take an M15 trade and it turns into something longer. But I think this is rare in practice.

I'm not sure what this means: "not the semantics of arithmetic risk measurement in relation to your account siz".

The point is that regardless of pips or points, my risk is the same, because my position size is determined by overall risk. I would be wary of the X-pips brigade, unless it's just colloquialism or shorthand.

Saying "I made 50 pips" is meaningless without knowing the risk involved.

Trust me, BS is a BS artist - read back over his posts.

Er OK...

 

[robster970]

One needs to adjust for the scale of course. But that's all. Honestly, in terms of the TF it really doesn't matter to me, with some obvious points excepted such as order flow around key areas and so on.

The "better entries on lower TFs" argument is not a good one in my opinion. I can see it appealing in theory (and of course it does sometimes happen that you can take an M15 trade and it turns into something longer. But I think this is rare in practice.

I'm not sure what this means: "not the semantics of arithmetic risk measurement in relation to your account siz".

The point is that regardless of pips or points, my risk is the same, because my position size is determined by overall risk. I would be wary of the X-pips brigade, unless it's just colloquialism or shorthand.

Saying "I made 50 pips" is meaningless without knowing the risk involved.

Trust me, BS is a BS artist - read back over his posts.

Apologies for not making it clearer. If I'm trading off H4 which I do in the main, I get a trigger to enter but can see that the PA on M5 looks like it will move back in my favour for a better entry, I'll watch the M5 and get a better entry. It's not the other way around of using M5 for intraday and then letting it run for 5 days because H4 looked funky.

The semantics bit was about the fact that people say there risk is say 4% per trade. They get an entry triggered at 3.5% risk. I would suggest that if the PA looks good on a lower timeframe and you think you can get that risk down to 1% then go for it. Why not make your entries and exits better if you can read lower TF's?

Make more sense now? I wasn't trying to be provocative btw.

BTW - I've read BS's posts for the last 2 years and on balance I don't think he's a bad old stick. Just not everybody's cup of tea but you know, that's life really.

 

[Chartsy]

H4 is my main time frame too, i would love to be able to read anything under H4 but i simply cannot at this moment, don't have anywhere near the time needed. when the time comes though im going to other markets which have order flow etc.

 

[Black Swan]

thanks FX bandit, you've hit the nail on the head explaining that. Makes perfect sense now, more thinking, less rushing, less misstakes etc..
Also, as you say find the TF that suits you and your circumstance, and that's longer TFs for me, I like it, fits in with my day job, and i'm doing very well at it.
Thanks again.

Yep, it all fits together perfectly every day eh? Price moves in luverly smooth motions that fit in perfectly with your job. You just keep shaking the magic pip tree from the bottom of the fairy garden on 4hr tfs with 30 pip stops eh..? As you say, if it fits in with the day job and you're "doing very well" at it why change, why ask the question?...By the way, you spelt the word mistake wrong :cheesy:

 

[Black Swan]

Apologies for not making it clearer. If I'm trading off H4 which I do in the main, I get a trigger to enter but can see that the PA on M5 looks like it will move back in my favour for a better entry, I'll watch the M5 and get a better entry. It's not the other way around of using M5 for intraday and then letting it run for 5 days because H4 looked funky.

The semantics bit was about the fact that people say there risk is say 4% per trade. They get an entry triggered at 3.5% risk. I would suggest that if the PA looks good on a lower timeframe and you think you can get that risk down to 1% then go for it. Why not make your entries and exits better if you can read lower TF's?

Make more sense now? I wasn't trying to be provocative btw.

BTW - I've read BS's posts for the last 2 years and on balance I don't think he's a bad old stick. Just not everybody's cup of tea but you know, that's life really.

Brilliant how posts lose track so quickly on this suite of forums. The original Q was what is the best TF for the inexperienced, not which is the best TF to trade off and why; which is a ridiculous question anyhow...Heh, according to the legion of mysterious gurus there's only two, daily or weekly..

My assertion is that a new or inexperienced trader should trade one security, Euro, off a 10-15 min tf in order to learn the job and be (arguably) *closer* to price action. Once they have the semblance of a decent strat. they're unlikely to suffer more than the average 22pip loss per trade I suffer when trading Euro pairs off shorter term TFs.

 

[robster970]

Post 2 on the thread. Day trading, M5 preferably, I would say Dow but I would as I'm not FX person. I agree with the principle of in the deep end because

a) PA/Patterns look the same on all TF's although the lower you go, the more noise there is.

b) Screen time and number of trades if the key to learning, the more you do the quicker you'll learn and the quicker you'll reinforce what you learn and jettison what is bad.

I suppose it's how you prefer learning really so popular wisdom dictates the safest route rather than the most effective route.

 

[FX Bandit]

Apologies for not making it clearer. If I'm trading off H4 which I do in the main, I get a trigger to enter but can see that the PA on M5 looks like it will move back in my favour for a better entry, I'll watch the M5 and get a better entry. It's not the other way around of using M5 for intraday and then letting it run for 5 days because H4 looked funky.

The semantics bit was about the fact that people say there risk is say 4% per trade. They get an entry triggered at 3.5% risk. I would suggest that if the PA looks good on a lower timeframe and you think you can get that risk down to 1% then go for it. Why not make your entries and exits better if you can read lower TF's?

Make more sense now? I wasn't trying to be provocative btw.

BTW - I've read BS's posts for the last 2 years and on balance I don't think he's a bad old stick. Just not everybody's cup of tea but you know, that's life really.

All those approaches are fine in my opinion. I think that there is a danger of people getting into difficulties mixing up TFs and so on. But if it works for you, that's great.

 

[FX Bandit]

Post 2 on the thread. Day trading, M5 preferably, I would say Dow but I would as I'm not FX person. I agree with the principle of in the deep end because

a) PA/Patterns look the same on all TF's although the lower you go, the more noise there is.

b) Screen time and number of trades if the key to learning, the more you do the quicker you'll learn and the quicker you'll reinforce what you learn and jettison what is bad.

I suppose it's how you prefer learning really so popular wisdom dictates the safest route rather than the most effective route.

I agree that screen time and experience are key. But so is confidence, and it is very easy to be crushed by early failures, which I think are more likely to occur for the new trader on lower TFs. They can pile up pretty quickly when you're starting out lol.

That said, it can be done - I've never really ventured above 4 hour. It all depends on the individual really.

There are any number of ways to trade. But newbies often suffer from an excess of eagerness - higher TFs are an automatic brake. Of course this can work the other way too - dailies only, no trades for weeks, then you enter a poor trade because you haven't traded for ages.

There's no right answer in my opinion. Every approach brings with it its own set of failures, disadvantages and frustrations.

 

[FX Bandit]

BTW - I've read BS's posts for the last 2 years and on balance I don't think he's a bad old stick. Just not everybody's cup of tea but you know, that's life really.

No he doesn't seem like a bad old stick, maybe I was a bit strong. The tone and content of some of his posts just makes me wonder about his trading ability.

Could be wrong of course.

 

[Black Swan]

No he doesn't seem like a bad old stick, maybe I was a bit strong. The tone and content of some of his posts just makes me wonder about his trading ability.

Could be wrong of course.

This opinion is based on you experience as a trader of how many years? And you found T2W last month and suddenly decided to share your wisdom and insult longer standing posters? Quality debut...

 

[robster970]

There's no right answer in my opinion. Every approach brings with it its own set of failures, disadvantages and frustrations.

I agree - people have to just figure it out for themselves - you can't really articulate just how personal it is can you. Also daytrading is an itch I think everybody tries to scratch at some point. You might find you're genius at it or like me, mediocre and just not you're bag. Nevertheless the value derived from the experience had a huge impact on my discipline, execution and pysch problems that would have taken years to reveal on H4.

 

[FX Bandit]

This opinion is based on you experience as a trader of how many years? And you found T2W last month and suddenly decided to share your wisdom and insult longer standing posters? Quality debut...

Not many years - it doesn't necessarily take a long time to become profitable, if you learn to avoid the nonsense that floods places like this. But if your approach is good for you, I'm pleased.

There's a dogmatism about your posts, as well as a lack of understanding of basic concepts, that makes me question your trading ability, that's all.

What has longer-standing got to do with anything? I'd better go and remove that nasty thing I posted about WASP.

 

[leonarda]

This opinion is based on you experience as a trader of how many years? And you found T2W last month and suddenly decided to share your wisdom and insult longer standing posters? Quality debut...

I would say a darn good debut (and welcome FXBandit), he/she makes more sense than you, and is a darn sight more polite about it than you!

BS I do think you are a bit blinkered to your own methods. This thread has opened my eyes a bit more (which was my intention after all), try opening yours...

 

[FX Bandit]

Nevertheless the value derived from the experience had a huge impact on my discipline, execution and pysch problems that would have taken years to reveal on H4.

This is an excellent point, and I fully agree. The trader has to have the right temprament to benefit from the experience though, otherwise it can simply be soul-destroying.

 

[Black Swan]

Not many years - it doesn't necessarily take a long time to become profitable, if you learn to avoid the nonsense that floods places like this. But if your approach is good for you, I'm pleased. What has longer-standing got to do with anything?

You think it's acceptable to call me a bu115hitter based on your *hunch*?

 

[Black Swan]

I would say a darn good debut (and welcome FXBandit), he/she makes more sense than you, and is a darn sight more polite about it than you!

BS I do think you are a bit blinkered to your own methods. This thread has opened my eyes a bit more (which was my intention after all), try opening yours...

Not blinkered at all, other than knowing I'm not interested (or suited) to trading equities or indices...I'm not here to teach, or do long term *educator cons*, you asked a question, I offered up an opinion. But you didn't want different views you wanted re-confirmation of your own set in play-doh views; views based on reading a couple of books,pdfs and articles..Good luck with that and your considerable success that you remind us off in every other post...

So how have your eyes been opened..?

 

[FX Bandit]

I would say a darn good debut (and welcome FXBandit), he/she makes more sense than you, and is a darn sight more polite about it than you!

BS I do think you are a bit blinkered to your own methods. This thread has opened my eyes a bit more (which was my intention after all), try opening yours...

Trading is really just a personal journey, like any other enterprise. There are so many ways to approach it.

For example, I don't use indicators, I don't think they're useful. Does that mean that other people shouldn't? Of course not - if they find them useful they should go ahead.

People start trading thinking that they need to find a "system" and then they've got it made - hence all the vendors hawking their drivel. In reality, trading is a skill like any other - it requires work, education, experience, all the usual things.

And an open mind helps - especially if you combine it with a wallet that is hard to open . People selling short-cuts or proclaiming to have the answer should usually be avoided.

I don't have any answers for other people, nor do I employ any secrets. Everything I know is publicly available. The methods and systems don't work - my work and study have enabled me to assemble an approach to the markets that works for me.

That's the real secret - that there is no secret.

Good luck with your chosen approach.

 

[oildaytrader]

What Time frames ?Frecking retards?

Everything on higher time frames can be seen on 1 min and 5 min time frames,If I use 1 min time frame everything on other time frames is traded at the same time.

 

[FX Bandit]

You think it's acceptable to call me a bu11****ter based on your *hunch*, having been on this forum for a month?

Kin hell, fer fook's sake get over it. cba to argue the point with you.

Look, either you can make 10% a week trading off 3 minute charts using 10 indicators or you should pack up.

It's not like it's hard is it, any fookin idiot can pull £200 a day out of the market scalping one pair.

I made 22 pips this morning.

etc.

 

[Black Swan]

Kin hell, fer fook's sake get over it. cba to argue the point with you.

Look, either you can make 10% a week trading off 3 minute charts using 10 indicators or you should pack up.

It's not like it's hard is it, any fookin idiot can pull £200 a day out of the market scalping one pair.

I made 22 pips this morning.

etc.

Someone has just PMd me to point out that you're on the multi nic troll list, so that kinda explains things...."Trust you" eh? :whistling