Becoming a proffessional through prop shop?

[Fredthepiratetrader]

Hi! First post on this forum, if im in the totally wrong part please re direct me.

So, like many others, I started trading FX one year ago as a hobby. I quickly found myself loving the subject; studying it at night and working during the days. I am currently employed by the port authority doing some easy job but well paid.

I'm looking at going to uni this year, I am 21 which I will make me fairly old when I graduate. .

My question is, Is there any chances of getting into IB's or good hedge funds taking the propetarian route. In other words, if I would focus every second of the coming years on trading at a prop firm (and become successful), will IB's or hedges value this performance or do i 'realistically' require a education to back me up?

 

[random12345]

Hi! First post on this forum, if im in the totally wrong part please re direct me.

So, like many others, I started trading FX one year ago as a hobby. I quickly found myself loving the subject; studying it at night and working during the days. I am currently employed by the port authority doing some easy job but well paid.

I'm looking at going to uni this year, I am 21 which I will make me fairly old when I graduate. .

My question is, Is there any chances of getting into IB's or good hedge funds taking the propetarian route. In other words, if I would focus every second of the coming years on trading at a prop firm (and become successful), will IB's or hedges value this performance or do i 'realistically' require a education to back me up?

I can't speak for Oz, but I'm afraid it would be near worthless in London IB vs a reasonably relevant degree. Firstly, you wouldn't even get through the automated HR CV sift. Secondly, they do not value props in general unless you went to a top tier prop like First New York or Optiver. Unfortunately you'd need a degree to get into them too

24-25 is not old to get into IB at all. In fact I'd argue it's a better age than 21.

I'm going to bed.

 

[Fredthepiratetrader]

I can't speak for Oz, but I'm afraid it would be near worthless in London IB vs a reasonably relevant degree. Firstly, you wouldn't even get through the automated HR CV sift. Secondly, they do not value props in general unless you went to a top tier prop like First New York or Optiver. Unfortunately you'd need a degree to get into them too

24-25 is not old to get into IB at all. In fact I'd argue it's a better age than 21.

I'm going to bed.

Cheers for the information mate! Interesting. Your right, getting a degree will also give me some more time to work on my trading. Have a nice sleep! Its looking to be a good day here in the future

 

[OrderFlowDashPro]

If you are funded to trade then why would you care where you work? Why would you want to work for a hedge fund? Doesn't make any sense to me, if you get in a prop and do well then you can make enough money to start your own fund.

Hi! First post on this forum, if im in the totally wrong part please re direct me.

So, like many others, I started trading FX one year ago as a hobby. I quickly found myself loving the subject; studying it at night and working during the days. I am currently employed by the port authority doing some easy job but well paid.

I'm looking at going to uni this year, I am 21 which I will make me fairly old when I graduate. .

My question is, Is there any chances of getting into IB's or good hedge funds taking the propetarian route. In other words, if I would focus every second of the coming years on trading at a prop firm (and become successful), will IB's or hedges value this performance or do i 'realistically' require a education to back me up?

 

[Fredthepiratetrader]

If you are funded to trade then why would you care where you work? Why would you want to work for a hedge fund? Doesn't make any sense to me, if you get in a prop and do well then you can make enough money to start your own fund.

That is true! I was under the impression that it was not only a more secure work place but also a better place to improve your performance; Surrounded by intellectual grads. And further, the road to climb higher in the business would be easier and/or more straight forward. I do realize that I need to spend some more time investigating the matter before asking.
Cheers

 

[random12345]

That is true! I was under the impression that it was not only a more secure work place but also a better place to improve your performance; Surrounded by intellectual grads. And further, the road to climb higher in the business would be easier and/or more straight forward. I do realize that I need to spend some more time investigating the matter before asking.
Cheers

Be smart. You're still young and have a lot of life ahead of you. What this individual suggests would put you into a bracket of <0.00001% of traders. Do you feel like playing those odds?

If you fail to get a degree now, go the self employed route and it doesn't work out, well you'll be 35 and completely fked for a life in the financial industry like many who post on these boards. Sounds like a laugh eh?

Don't listen to people who have not done what they are suggesting, ever.

 

[peter_anders]

you can do it but as mentioned you will need to be profitable enough where you can practically run your own small size fund.

Most prop traders I know who have been around a long time are 99% rebate traders which is not what an IB wants

 

[Earthling]

I was listening to a podcast the other day that I think is right onto your question. In iTunes search under "The sound Trader interviews". There's only one on there at the moment, and he talks for an hour to a guy who's just finished a year of what you're asking about.

 

[BSD]

Gamma Jammer, a member here, was at a prop.

Heading an FX desk at a bank now.

Everything is possible if you want it !

At the end of the day it's all about reproducable profits with size and nothing else.

IF your style generates alpha and can handle larger amounts of money everyone will want you or want to back you, it's that simple.

If you're a scalper who can't handle size they obviously won't want you.

Lawrie Inman is another guy who was at a prop for ages.

Guess who hired him ?

High-paying hedge fund hires super-star trader with taste for poker

Like Henry Ford said, you've got those who think they can.

And those who think they can't.

And obviously both are right !

 

[darktone]

Like Henry Ford said, you've got those who think they can.

And those who think they can't.

And obviously both are right !

Me likey!

 

[BSD]

Hehe.

Good innit !

Brett Hipkiss is another guy who's at a bank, HSBC.

How'd he get in ?

Opened an account with a couple of thousand pounds, doubled that in the next couple of months trading fx, and went looking for a job on the basis of that track record.

HSBC offered him a job at their London forex desk.

That's outta TraderMonthly from May/June 2008, page 52.

A quick google show's he's still at HSBC.

 

[darktone]

Hehe.

Good innit !

Brett Hipkiss is another guy who's at a bank, HSBC.

How'd he get in ?

Opened an account with a couple of thousand pounds, doubled that in the next couple of months trading fx, and went looking for a job on the basis of that track record.

HSBC offered him a job at their London forex desk.

That's outta TraderMonthly from May/June 2008, page 52.

A quick google show's he's still at HSBC.

I bet all guys n girls with a frame on the wall loved him!
"WOT! 2 months wiv a beer money acc! 3 years n 30K it cost me >> "

Be easier an cheaper to spread 10k between 5 accounts, whack em all (one o thems gota come in) and use big words in the interview. Oh, and wear glasses, dont forget the glasses!

 

[BSD]

Haha.



Honestly too bad btw that TraderMonthly folded, that was always a fun read.

Someone resuscitated traderdaily.com, the sister website, but doesn't really seem to be putting any big effort into building that onwards and upwards.

Nothing like what it was anyway.

Ah, tempi passati !

 

[Liquid validity]

Personally I'm a bit sceptical of 'think you can.'
Self belief is essential, but it has to have a factual foundation.
'Think you can' - alone can lead to success - yes (luck, statistical outlier).
Flipside - the path to self delusion & failure is paved with self belief in isolation.

I prefer this:

Know its possible. (yes/no).
Think you are capable. (yes/no - if no = why not, work to rectify).
Found a way. (yes/no).
Know you can. (yes/no).

It amounts to the same thing in the end, but emphasises that effort
is required, self belief is merely a part of the process.
I prefer to deal in absolute facts, and base self belief on that.

 

[BSD]

Can't say that I actually disagree with any of that.

Think a lot of how one goes through life and approaches issues or goes about achieving targets is down to how you're wired, how you interpret your subjective reality and the universe.

I'm definitely 80% right brained, for me everything is about the holistic big picture, I always start on a journey with the destination in clear sight, but not necessarily any idea yet of how to actually get there.

Only once I've clearly defined my objective and coupled that with real desire do I do my homework and define the truly success relevant factors out of all the irrelevant noise surrounding them.

But essentially for me the biggest driver to succeed in a designated field is will, absolute belief in eventual outcome, and consequence and complete commitment in doing what needs to be done to get there.

Kinda Fake-It-Till-You-Make-It Self-Fulfilling-Prophecy stuff that works for earthly reasons.

But I go beyond that, I actually believe what Andrew Carnegie, then one of the richest men on the planet, said about thoughts being things, ie your thoughts actually create your life if there is true conviction behind them, I really believe that if you set yourself a goal and commit totally to that that the forces of the Universe will align behind you and propel you towards success.

Esoteric stuff for most, I'm well aware.

 

[Liquid validity]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing completely.
Your last post above makes good points as well.

All I am saying is I don't think it applies to everyone
with every goal.

Example.
I want to be an astronaut.
I think I can (for the purposes of this point only... )
Thinking I can in that situation is optimistic to say the least.
That isn't negative, its just realistic.
If I was younger, had an air force background with a science degree, then yes.

Using my earlier example, applied to me being an astronaut:
Know its possible. (yes).
Think you are capable. (no - if no = why not, work to rectify).
Found a way. (no - and unlikely to).
Know you can. (no).

That is an extreme example obviously.
I actually do share many of your thoughts on self belief.
For me personally, it has to be tempered with a reality check,
thats all I am driving at.

 

[BSD]

Oh I totally agree with that.

You can't will yourself to be a basketball player if you're all of 1m 66.

Or you won't become the worlds highest paid male model if you've got the mug of a boxer after his career is over and he's started consuming mind enhancing and facial features distorting substances to relive the old highs.

 

[Liquid validity]

Exactly, I concur

 

[BSD]

I suppose the best solution is to team up a proper right- with a right old left brainer.

 

[darktone]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing completely.
Your last post above makes good points as well.

All I am saying is I don't think it applies to everyone
with every goal.

Example.
I want to be an astronaut.
I think I can (for the purposes of this point only... )
Thinking I can in that situation is optimistic to say the least.
That isn't negative, its just realistic.
If I was younger, had an air force background with a science degree, then yes.

Using my earlier example, applied to me being an astronaut:
Know its possible. (yes).
Think you are capable. (no - if no = why not, work to rectify).
Found a way. (no - and unlikely to).
Know you can. (no).

That is an extreme example obviously.
I actually do share many of your thoughts on self belief.
For me personally, it has to be tempered with a reality check,
thats all I am driving at.

I understand what ya saying LV and on some levels i agree, ie physical, its gona be tough setting a pressup record with no arms unless youre a right clever dick. But as someone whos been in both camps its no contest.
I think the ford quote is bang on, so bang on its going in my sig, along with a few others of his.
All that said we are all different, theres no rules, but thats ok. Peace to all