Best Thread Arabian's *serious* Thread

[sighthound]

Have you got really hairy eyebrows then r they obstructing the view

 

[DashRiprock]

Have you got really hairy eyebrows then r they obstructing the view

his eyebrows are so hairy that howard can't see past his scrotum.

 

[kimo'sabby]

Those dirty Schneider ba$tards. I take a cr@p, I look in the bowl, it looks better than those ugly motherf***ers.

How do they recruit do you think? Go round the travelling circuses askin' if they got any f***in' freaks for sale?

lol. Friday night, too much Stella, recovered yesterday(had a little laugh to myself about the schneider freakshow lol) funny.

 

[Pazienza]

lol. Friday night, too much Stella, recovered yesterday(had a little laugh to myself about the schneider freakshow lol) funny.

So much of it went missing . Comedy gold, just tossed aside.

 

[kimo'sabby]

So much of it went missing . Comedy gold, just tossed aside.

I thought it was hilarious.

 

[barjon]

So much of it went missing . Comedy gold, just tossed aside.

Just to be serious for the minute . Sorry to have been a party pooper but there are two things to bear in mind.

1. However funny something might be, if it is offensive in terms of language or content and/or insulting to other members then it is not on.

2. Threads maintain and new readers do not want to have to wade through a mass of lulzy asides to follow the topic of the thread. This thread may turn out to be a good example. It's already had some extremely interesting trading stuff and will undoubtedly have more. It would be a crying shame if all that got obscured under the weight of lulz.

Here endeth the lesson

jon

 

[kimo'sabby]

Just to be serious for the minute . Sorry to have been a party pooper but there are two things to bear in mind.

1. However funny something might be, if it is offensive in terms of language or content and/or insulting to other members then it is not on.

2. Threads maintain and new readers do not want to have to wade through a mass of lulzy asides to follow the topic of the thread. This thread may turn out to be a good example. It's already had some extremely interesting trading stuff and will undoubtedly have more. It would be a crying shame if all that got obscured under the weight of lulz.

Here endeth the lesson

jon

Arabian, posted in a thread entitled 'order flow', in the newby section. May i suggest moving the posts to this thread.

Dave,

Unlike 99.9999999% of the members on t2w your reasons for entering the market are not really based around needing a direction as such, would this be right?

Would i be correct in my assumption that with the only information being a chart, a person may as well be going down to the dog track? It's gambling.


What are your views on this, or anyones for that fact? I'm just trying to inject a little bit of reality into the whole 'voodoo charts' outlook.


Cheers.

 

[arabianights]

Thanks for all the feedback. Re implied/spread orders: presumably (correct me here if I'm wrong) the spread order is engineered so that (i) I don't care about the absolute traded Mar, June values and (ii) the spread order is guaranteed filled if and only if I enter both legs AT THE REQUIRED SPREAD.

Is it correct to say that implied orders may cause the level of liquidity to be overstated, because they are subject to other constraints?

I can imagine a situation where my spread order implies orders to (say) buy March, and sell June, and someone sells a lot of March contracts, without buying June. If the required spread is not achieved, my 'implied' order on March is not executed, right, and less than the advertised bid is actually traded.

If that's right I begin to think that the exchange must implement a window within which it can execute/reconcile multi-leg orders. No doubt the order rules are a real can of worms.

Well... the liquidity is there in a particular month, but isn't there if you consider the entire strip, if you see what I mean. In fact the liquidity in a particular month is understated as the implied bids and offers are only the nearest; it doesn't continue down the order book.

hi

Can you go into a bit more detail here please?



So...

the Algo was involved on the bid, and as this was hit in size the algo is now sitting with a long position - so it sells some of it back to the market at 13 ASAP (it has more longs than it wanted), and then tries to generate momentum to the upside or at least scratch the remainder of its long position?

but because you consider a move to the upside unlikely to garner any support from the rest of the market, you front run the algo exiting the remainder of its inventory for a loss / load up shorts and trade in the direction of the original order?

??

That's basically it. Although I'd add that it wasn't just the algo involved, it was other traders too, it's just that the algo is such a large part of it...

Arabian, posted in a thread entitled 'order flow', in the newby section. May i suggest moving the posts to this thread.

Dave,

Unlike 99.9999999% of the members on t2w your reasons for entering the market are not really based around needing a direction as such, would this be right?

Would i be correct in my assumption that with the only information being a chart, a person may as well be going down to the dog track? It's gambling.


What are your views on this, or anyones for that fact? I'm just trying to inject a little bit of reality into the whole 'voodoo charts' outlook.


Cheers.

You can't trade like this off a chart. That's not to say charts have no value at all.... they can be helpful for picking up support and resistance levels, for example... reinforcing what you think you saw basically.

 

[donaldduke]

Unlike 99.9999999% of the members on t2w your reasons for entering the market are not really based around needing a direction as such, would this be right?

Would i be correct in my assumption that with the only information being a chart, a person may as well be going down to the dog track? It's gambling.


What are your views on this, or anyones for that fact? I'm just trying to inject a little bit of reality into the whole 'voodoo charts' outlook.


Cheers.

Im sure there are many traders here who use options for non directional trades.

Ive made a lot of money doing that with binaries myself, and i used intraday charts for these non directional bets.

For my directional trading i dont use charts at all.

 

[barjon]

the problem about copying posts over from other threads is that they appear in date/time order and thus muck up the flow. Dave's ok with it, so I'll try a different way.

jon

 

[barjon]

copy of Arabian's post from Order Flow thread

You're asking two hugely different questions.

1) How do I trade off order flow?

and

2) How do I identify order flow from a chart?

I'm not convinced you can do 2) much of the time... which means 1) doesn't come in to it.

(By the way, with 1) - it's a huge art but at the same time it's also common sense, really. If you know it's a price insensitive hedger causing a move then you need to react very differently [fade it] to it being George Soros [run with it])

 

[barjon]

copy of Arabian's post from Order Flow thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by price777999 View Post
could you not give a dumbed down example of 1) and or 2) ''price insensitive hedger'' doesn't mean anything to me ?

Cheers


In reverse order

2) "Price insensitive hedger" - well "hedger" means a market participant who is using the market to reduce their risk, rather than speculate (for example he's selling eurusd ndfs cause he has to receive euros in the future against his dollar costs - if euros strengthen then that would be all well and good, but if they weaken then he may find his handsome looking profit is now a gaping goatse sized hole)

"price insensitive" just means he'll do it at any price... he just needs to have a price, he doesn't really care what it is... in other words he's just doing what the market will take. In reality of course everyone is price sensitive to a certain degree but you can differentiate like that

1) Well, if you know a price incensitive hedger is what's causing the price movement, it's a temporary imbalance in supply and demand, and therefore, subject to a number of assumptions that we'll wave away and go ceteris paribus the imbalance will right itself shortly once he's done his order. So after he's pushed the market far enough (and if it's a small order he probably hasn't moved it noticeably, but that's another concern) you want to fade it and await the previous equilibrium being reached, then exit

 

[barjon]

There we are then - hopefully people will ignore the red bit and think I'm the clever fella

 

[scose-no-doubt]

lol barjon. I was about to say that you've just articulated something I've been thinking about for a while

 

[kimo'sabby]

Im sure there are many traders here who use options for non directional trades.

Ive made a lot of money doing that with binaries myself, and i used intraday charts for these non directional bets.

For my directional trading i dont use charts at all.

Yeh, i c wot u r saying. I only trade off a chart, so i'm covering prices, so i need a break or a move off a certain price(direction).

Whereas Arabian is covering orders, and i'm not sure that can be classed as wholly diectional.

Or can it?

 

[arabianights]

What is covering orders?

The trade I described here is just one example of what I do, it's not what I mostly do...

 

[kimo'sabby]

What is covering orders?

The trade I described here is just one example of what I do, it's not what I mostly do...

You will enter based on orders, in the main. Is this correct? By the way, i always thought you traded futures mostly.

 

[donaldduke]

Yeh, i c wot u r saying. I only trade off a chart, so i'm covering prices, so i need a break or a move off a certain price(direction).

Whereas Arabian is covering orders, and i'm not sure that can be classed as wholly diectional.

Or can it?

Arab says he trades 'order flow', the word 'flow' would imply some sort of directional aspect.
He once told me, he moves his bid and offers quotes up and down depending on how he is getting filled.

Anyway Arab has offered to show himself trading live at some point, you interested kimo? (no idea which part of the uk you are based tbh, we are in london)

 

[kimo'sabby]

Arab says he trades 'order flow', the word 'flow' would imply some sort of directional aspect.
He once told me, he moves his bid and offers quotes up and down depending on how he is getting filled.

Anyway Arab has offered to show himself trading live at some point, you interested kimo? (no idea which part of the uk you are based tbh)

I'd be interested, not that it would be much use to me, but i would be interested.

 

[DashRiprock]

Well... the liquidity is there in a particular month, but isn't there if you consider the entire strip, if you see what I mean. In fact the liquidity in a particular month is understated as the implied bids and offers are only the nearest; it doesn't continue down the order book.

That's basically it. Although I'd add that it wasn't just the algo involved, it was other traders too, it's just that the algo is such a large part of it...

yeah, we're on the same page


You can't trade like this off a chart. That's not to say charts have no value at all.... they can be helpful for picking up support and resistance levels, for example... reinforcing what you think you saw basically.

A chart is just visual representation of information that is on the tape - there are many different ways you can use it, some have more merit than others.