Anyone still uses James16 Price Action?

neil

Legendary member
5,167 749
But I'm assuming he taught a little bit more than that in his private room(s).

Only those who subscribed (not me) would know for sure.

PA is a leading indicator. Whether you wait for confirmation or not is surely a question of how aggressive as a trader you wish to be.

Agreed some sorts of PA are more effective than other sorts, but the ones mentioned can be effective when taking into consideration other things.


IIRC, James16 never ever taught people to trade on pinbars alone, and neither did Trader_Dante.

Correct - trade every pin bar and you will lose money. Context matters - it works for me and I have never paid for any courses. I think I must have bought the usual books eg.Pring etc.:)
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,501
Pin bars are nonsense

Markets turn all the time.

A pin bar gets generated because of the time the reversal occurs - depending on how your chart is set up, change the time frame a few mins either way and the pin bar disappears and the revesal is now across 2 more "normal looking" candlesticks.

It's mostly an optical illusion.
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 749
Pin bars are nonsense

Markets turn all the time.

A pin bar gets generated because of the time the reversal occurs - depending on how your chart is set up, change the time frame a few mins either way and the pin bar disappears and the revesal is now across 2 more "normal looking" candlesticks.

It's mostly an optical illusion.

Well I am not vending anything but each to their own -whatever works for the individual trader is good -yes:)
 
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DionysusToast

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Well I am not vending anything but each to their own -whatever works for the individual trader is good -yes:)

Neil - If you feel I am trying to sell something in these posts - report the posts.

If you cannot argue your point, consider the merits of silent introspection as apposed to taking sideswipes about things that are not relevant to the discussion.

Where the market has been is relevant. Charts show this very well, although I think volume profiles on charts add a dimension of extra information about who may still be positioned at certain prices and where stops may exist.

Most candlestick analysis is flawed. That's because the markets move organically, not in time spliced increments. Reading so much into OHLC is flawed because a quick change of timeframe tells you a completely different story for the same action in the same market.

We seem to have discussions based on the premise that all things work until proven otherwise. The argument "to each his own" basically means we should forgo discussions and not back up our points.

Why WOULD pin bars on a certain timeframe chart be any better an indicator of a reversal than another reversal that didn't have OHLC aligned such that a tail was formed? Same thing happened at the end of the day....

Here is a current 4 hour chart of Crude Jan 15 on NYMEX.

15-11-201407-34-41_zps1aaff228.jpg


Then we change the timeframe and the pin bar disappears

15-11-201407-35-48_zpsdb912e37.jpg


Then we do the same again and the bottom reversal suddenly turns into a pin bar

15-11-201407-38-42_zpsae9adcb9.jpg


And this was the first chart I looked at.

How can the open/close/high/low of a candle really tell you anything when a simple change in timeframe changes the picture entirely? Of course, it doesn't

What the chart does tell you - where it's been & where the major turns were.

You can make a science of it if you want but to be honest but looking at a chart from my perspective is a hell of a lot simpler.

And the funny thing is - you bring the whole "vendor" thing into the argument when this candlestick thing is one of the greatest pieces of retail trading vendor BS in existence.
 
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barjon

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...Pin bars are nonsense.....

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter really. For those inclined they give a reason to trade and it's how you manage that trade that's much more important than what prompted you to enter in the first place.

My experience with pin bars in the guise of hammers or shooting stars (as the potential swing low/high points in the retracements I trade) is enough to have me entering with a double position. I luv 'em :)
 
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DionysusToast

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Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter really. For those inclined they give a reason to trade and it's how you manage that trade that's much more important than what prompted you to enter in the first place.

My experience with pin bars in the guise of hammers or shooting stars (as the potential swing low/high points in the retracements I trade) is enough to have me entering with a double position. I luv 'em :)

So you are suggesting that you can enter a trade with no discernible edge at entry and manage edge into the trade?

When you double your position based on a pin bar, does it not bother you that this is a completely random event? That if the close of the bar was second or minutes earlier that you would enter a normal size position?
 

barjon

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So you are suggesting that you can enter a trade with no discernible edge at entry and manage edge into the trade?

When you double your position based on a pin bar, does it not bother you that this is a completely random event? That if the close of the bar was second or minutes earlier that you would enter a normal size position?

Not quite, but I believe risk and trade management to be by far the most important.

Remember I'm trading off the daily bar and thus the pin-bar represents a true trading session and not a random slice of time.
 
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barjon

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....oh! And just to set your pulses racing here's the famous March 2009 monthly pin-bar that came at the end of the last bear market ;)
 

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DionysusToast

Legendary member
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Not quite, but I believe risk and trade management to be by far the most important.

Remember I'm trading off the daily bar and thus the pin-bar represents a true trading session and not a random slice of time.

So if a market went aggresively south one day and then the next day it we t aggresively North all day, that would not be as good an opportunity as one that reversed at lunchtime? The latter forming a pin bar and the former not...

Any particular reason for that?
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,705 1,809
So if a market went aggresively south one day and then the next day it we t aggresively North all day, that would not be as good an opportunity as one that reversed at lunchtime? The latter forming a pin bar and the former not...

Any particular reason for that?

No difference, really, except for timing - but then no-one's suggesting that pin-bars are the ONLY means of depicting such market action.
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,705 1,809
No difference but you would double your size on the trade?

Only because of observation that whenever the final bar in a retracement was a pin-bar I'd been getting in excess of 80% success over a 12 month period (not a huge number of pin-bars, though). That was significant enough to try double size, which I still do since it continues to be worthwhile in a greater level of success than the norm.

Pin bars are starkly obvious and it maybe that the same type of market action not showing up in the same way would be equally successful - I don't know because I've never looked.
 

Trader333

Moderator
8,655 981
Any particular reason for that?

In my view yes there is and that is because there are a lot of traders who always go flat at the end of the day. I agree that pinbars during the day are of limited value but EOD and they have more significance when combined with other factors. Not that I trade them as I don't but I can see why they would be of more value for EOD traders.
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,705 1,809
toastie

As a matter of interest here are the pin-bars on RBS for the last couple of months. I picked RBS because it's on my watch list for entry on Monday.

The whites all triggered and had potential; the yellows didn't trigger; the bluey was the only loser; the pinkie might well have been a loser unless you were sharp; and the open white remains to be seen.

I don't believe you, toastie, couldn't have come out on top with that lot :) - I didn't trade them, of course :LOL:

ps: missed the first one or two - the chart shifted in the copying!!
 

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