Anyone need any help?

Lee Shepherd

Senior member
2,164 570
Thanks for your reply. I have found this on a spread betting website. -

"I think that it is pretty clear that someone who pays tax on another income source will never have a problem if they make money via spread betting. The crux of the matter really relates to an individual who makes their sole income through spread betting."

On the other hand -

" Let’s assume that you earned £50, at the weekend, stacking shelves in Tesco but, traded 12 hours a day during the normal working week. Your profits, from trading, amounted to approximately £5,000 per week and you made 10 trades each day; what would HMRC consider to be your primary occupation and income source?
The shelf stacking in Tesco’s? Unlikely, I think…"

The article went on to say that no one has ever been convicted of tax avoiding or evasion due to spread betting.
I think it may be advisable to have another form of income as well, that you do pay tax on, just to stay under the radar, it could be passive such as rental income?
Hi Jason,

You're making it sound very complicated. Its really not. If you are ever approached by an overzealous tax offical, use this statement:

"I am gambling by way of spreadbetting. Gambling in the UK is NOT an income and therefore any WINNINGS are not taxable."

Obviously do not encourage them to investigate you because they will if you put on your tax return 'Financial Trader' or 'Professional Trader'. Also do not declare it as an income and certainly do not try and get finance off the back of it. Ie, apply for a mortgage/loan/credit card by stating your 'earnings' are ex-amount from trading. Remember, with spreadbetting, you are gambling only.

If you find yourself being harassed by HMRC regarding this matter...complain.

However, like I mentioned above. HMRC know who I am and know how much I win through my gambling affairs - not that its any of their business. Job or no job, my winnings through gambling are not taxable. That is the LAW of the UK and until it is changed in parliament, the fact remains the same. Gambling is not tax deductible.

Now, having said that and before a smart alec or 'confused' person pipes up and states:

"But it is taxable if you are carrying your gambling methods as a professional or second, third, first income blah blah blah"

This is reserved for traders who may use spreadbetting to hedge trades. It would also very likely apply to professional sellers, vendors as an example who spreadbet then sell their methods or books ect. However, that would be their affairs and not mine.

So to recap:
I have never been taxed on any of my winnings......ever. Whether that be at the Casino, cards, horses or spreadbetting. Regardless of whether or not I've been employed for 1 or more hours, self employed for 1 or more hours or unemployed. I've won substantial amounts of money over the course of God knows how many years spreadbetting. Something like 15 years or so I think.

Prior to that I was a financial market trader (private) using HSBC to deal through. This was different and therefore all dividends and profits were taxable.

Regards,
Lee
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jason101

barjon

Legendary member
10,239 1,543
Thanks for your reply. I have found this on a spread betting website. -

"I think that it is pretty clear that someone who pays tax on another income source will never have a problem if they make money via spread betting. The crux of the matter really relates to an individual who makes their sole income through spread betting."

On the other hand -

" Let’s assume that you earned £50, at the weekend, stacking shelves in Tesco but, traded 12 hours a day during the normal working week. Your profits, from trading, amounted to approximately £5,000 per week and you made 10 trades each day; what would HMRC consider to be your primary occupation and income source?
The shelf stacking in Tesco’s? Unlikely, I think…"

The article went on to say that no one has ever been convicted of tax avoiding or evasion due to spread betting.
I think it may be advisable to have another form of income as well, that you do pay tax on, just to stay under the radar, it could be passive such as rental income?
The only problem is if HMRC decide that the spreadbetting is part of any overall related business. A simple example would be if someone sold spreadbetting strategies and tips they may decide any spreadbetting profits were associated with that.

Even then it's pretty unlikely (although there are unsubstantiated reports that it's happened) since the SB companies already pay betting tax on the transactions so there'd be an element of double taxation. Similar I guess HMRC would be reluctant to open up the prospect of spreadbetting losses being used to offset profits from other activities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee Shepherd

Jason101

Experienced member
1,366 214
Thanks Lee (and Barjon),

Very clear and concise. Now I can see why the HMRC come across as ambiguous.
It just hadn't crossed my mind that they would need the ambiguity to enforce on professional traders hedging with spread betting.
Great post.

Edit: I learnt something (and I originally balked at the the thread title! Thanks.)
 
Last edited:

Stockboy95

Newbie
5 2
Hello, I'm a newbie trying to start building my portfolio with investing 10k. Question is, if the company I invest in goes up by 4 % a week after I invested the 10k, will that mean I would make 400 buks after a week if I sell it minus tax and fees???
 
  • Like
Reactions: foroom lluzers

Lee Shepherd

Senior member
2,164 570
Hello, I'm a newbie trying to start building my portfolio with investing 10k. Question is, if the company I invest in goes up by 4 % a week after I invested the 10k, will that mean I would make 400 buks after a week if I sell it minus tax and fees???
Hi Stockboy,

Your question would be better directed toward the company before you invest.

If you have any specific questions related to trading, let me know.

Lee
 

Lee Shepherd

Senior member
2,164 570
Has anyone been able to get refund of deposits for their trading from their broker if they have an addiction to trading ?
Hi The Regulator,

I'm not quite sure of your question as its not clear. However, if you have put money in to your brokers account you should be able to take it back out again. Likewise if you have won bets you would also be legally entitled to take out your funds.

Obviously there would be some checks required to ensure that the money is paid out to a bonafide person and to their account so you would most likely need to provide ID. This should be done at the start when you open an account.

I'm with IG Index and I make regular withdrawals (approximately once a month) so can vouch for them.

Regards,
Lee
 

EnlightenedJoe

Experienced member
1,950 95
Anyone need any help?
I do.

I get paid by the market every day (including Christmas and New Year day when the markets and bucketshops don't open). Years ago I said it and got banned from here. Although, one of the staff here said the ban was for something else. In any case, the ban occurred at the time I said what I said. I repeated what I said on a second nick a few years later. No banning that time after the staff member (not moderator) verified my claims.

I am now fully profitable and close to 100% win rate. I suspect I will get banned for saying that. But I don't care.

What I'd like to know from a pro like yourself is where I am going wrong ? My gut says something is not right somewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: foroom lluzers

Lee Shepherd

Senior member
2,164 570
I do.

I get paid by the market every day (including Christmas and New Year day when the markets and bucketshops don't open). Years ago I said it and got banned from here. Although, one of the staff here said the ban was for something else. In any case, the ban occurred at the time I said what I said. I repeated what I said on a second nick a few years later. No banning that time after the staff member (not moderator) verified my claims.

I am now fully profitable and close to 100% win rate. I suspect I will get banned for saying that. But I don't care.

What I'd like to know from a pro like yourself is where I am going wrong ? My gut says something is not right somewhere.
Hello mate,

If you are close to 100% win rate. The only area you could be going wrong on is the ratio of win amounts to losses. If you care to share (anonymously of course), then I shall try and help and advise.

Regards,
Lee
 

EnlightenedJoe

Experienced member
1,950 95
Hello mate,

If you are close to 100% win rate. The only area you could be going wrong on is the ratio of win amounts to losses. If you care to share (anonymously of course), then I shall try and help and advise.

Regards,
Lee
The realised wins are up to 10x the realised losses. But it's a random factor. My wins and losses are not taken on a fixed amount. When the market is assessed to the turning, I exit or freeze until it turns again.
 

Lee Shepherd

Senior member
2,164 570
The realised wins are up to 10x the realised losses. But it's a random factor. My wins and losses are not taken on a fixed amount. When the market is assessed to the turning, I exit or freeze until it turns again.
Then it seems you are doing well and one of the rarities around here. If I'm wrong then correct me and let me know where you need help.

If not then let's hook up for investment ideas and brainstorming.

Lee
 

foroom lluzers

Veteren member
3,612 135
Hi Lee

I have a problem.How do I solve it .This is a serious question.

Every time I go shopping I will impulsively buy bargains , fill up with a box of shaving creams , buy one get one free (I will load up ) and generally extravagant on ordering buying.

That is a nice trait to have , if you use all these goodies.This extravagance carries on subconsciously on live accounts , within minutes all the emotions and stress responses start , as larger position sizes are put on.

If I am sitting for the next entry , in front of the screens and waiting , I might impulsively enter a trade of 5 times normal risk allowed.

This is my only flaw in trading .How do I overcome this?
 

sminicooper

Experienced member
1,148 326
Hi Lee

I have a problem.How do I solve it .This is a serious question.

Every time I go shopping I will impulsively buy bargains , fill up with a box of shaving creams , buy one get one free (I will load up ) and generally extravagant on ordering buying.

That is a nice trait to have , if you use all these goodies.This extravagance carries on subconsciously on live accounts , within minutes all the emotions and stress responses start , as larger position sizes are put on.

If I am sitting for the next entry , in front of the screens and waiting , I might impulsively enter a trade of 5 times normal risk allowed.

This is my only flaw in trading .How do I overcome this?
You could bone up on some psychology videos/books/T2W articles – that might help ;)
 
Last edited: